If Cullen...

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Also let's be real Leo Cullen was never known for his line breaks

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Lol BO'D walks into any of those teams!

I am not sure. Maybe you're right.
Just for the sake of an argument: top 5 teams from

Top 14
SR
Premiership
URC

So 5 teams, 4 competitions, 2 starting centres per team. That's 40 centres. How many of them have BOD's height? Weight?
Those are reasonably simple questions. Aki (height)?

Ringose and Henshaw are what, 10 cm higher (at least) than BOD? Aki is what, 10 kgs heavier at least?
It's a different game.

Is Ringrose better than BOD? If you compare by how much they stood above the competition, each at their time, absolutely not. But if you just got GR and send him back in time to 2007 he'd run circles around most.

And yes, i am well aware weight and height are not the only factors, sure. What i am trying to get to is that if 39 out of the 40 (?) current centres are all both taller and heavier than BOD was when he played, well, maybe there's an argument to be made there about how his build would give opposing teams an advantage.

Would he give Ringrose a run for his money? Prolly. Would he walk over GR and be the undisputed 13 at Leinster? I don't think so. Again, different eras.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I am not sure. Maybe you're right.
Just for the sake of an argument: top 5 teams from

Top 14
SR
Premiership
URC

So 5 teams, 4 competitions, 2 starting centres per team. That's 40 centres. How many of them have BOD's height? Weight?
Those are reasonably simple questions. Aki (height)?

Ringose and Henshaw are what, 10 cm higher (at least) than BOD? Aki is what, 10 kgs heavier at least?
It's a different game.

Is Ringrose better than BOD? If you compare by how much they stood above the competition, each at their time, absolutely not. But if you just got GR and send him back in time to 2007 he'd run circles around most.

And yes, i am well aware weight and height are not the only factors, sure. What i am trying to get to is that if 39 out of the 40 (?) current centres are all both taller and heavier than BOD was when he played, well, maybe there's an argument to be made there about how his build would give opposing teams an advantage.

Would he give Ringrose a run for his money? Prolly. Would he walk over GR and be the undisputed 13 at Leinster? I don't think so. Again, different eras.

If your argument here is that centres at the moment are generally bigger, stronger and less creative I'd have a lot of sympathy with that. In internationals I'm hard pressed to think of centres that get me on the edge of the seat and it seems the focus in this position is more on being a strong ball carrier and solid defensively. It's why I bang on about Huw Jones in his prime because it's about my last memory of a centre that gets the pulse going. Jordie Barret may become that man, but its early days. Vakatawa doesn't seem to always get picked there (and is a big unit too).

But there is plenty of flair across backlines, at flyhalf and also even in the pack now that there is growing focus on even big men keeping the ball alive (a la Ledesma). Defences generally have got stronger but 50/22 and a greater willingness to cross kick with a penalty advantage mean I'm not seeing defences get on top.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Pretty much, You're probably 10x more eloquent at illustrating my own point. Thank you.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I'd add I dont think the door is closed on the idea of finesse centres (for want of a better phrase, and not a reference to BoD). Despite always picking DDA the South African centres like Damian Willemse (former 10) and Am (very solid defensively but not a huge ball carrier and has lovely hands). And some highlights this weekend (Leinster?) had a 12 kicking a cross kick to score a try.

 

[Goodey]

The article in the OP is a classic example of fawning over a bygone era that only existed in the author's head

During Cullen's career Joel Stransky and Jonny Wilkinson were drop kicking world cup ***les, but you would think they were all playing like the barbarians from the article

 

[miccloarch]

During Cullen's career Joel Stransky and Jonny Wilkinson were drop kicking world cup ***les, but you would think they were all playing like the barbarians from the article

I'm missing the part where he even mentions Springboks 95 or England 2003. Cherry picking two World Cup final moments by no means represents the era as a whole.

Super Rugby was played at a blistering rate and so did the All Blacks (eg. the very subject of the piece, Christian Cullen).

The article in the OP is a classic example of fawning over a bygone era that only existed in the author's head

Seems like you're the one with an edited version of a bygone era in your head. Almost as if you want to forget how frequently Jonah Lomu and the All Blacks ran England and other NH teams into smithereens or something lol.

Attacking running rugby with ball in hand. We still see a lot of that in the modern game but there's all this stupid kicking as well that's been made even worse with the new rules. Absolute joke to even suggest 1995-2011 isn't the greatest era of rugby ever.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I'd argue it was very different up in the NH as professionalism was way behind Super Rugby. For much of 1995-2011 Wales, Scotland and Ireland were awful, England were conservative and dull and France were arguably flamboyant but rubbish until Laporte came along. Plus the Boks were dull and the Pumas and Italy were completely focussed on forward play and scrum obsession. I'm surprised I sat through as much rugby back then as I did.

That's why I'm surprised by a recent post suggesting statistically there is less offloading than say 20 years ago, because I can barely remember seeing any offloading in the 6N between 1995 and 2011.

 

[Dan54]

Enforce the offside line.

There is a bloke with a flag looking straight down the defensive line at every ruck and maul.

Defences have got so much better with all the extra time available to drill the players. We don't need to allow them all to get a 2m headstart at every play.

Yep mate, but I think the offside is enforced more than a lot of spectators think, I have been at multiple games. where crowd is baying for offside, but not a; in line to see offside line and b; don't know when a player is offfside like not knowing when rucks etc are formed.

 

[Dan54]

I'd argue it was very different up in the NH as professionalism was way behind Super Rugby. For much of 1995-2011 Wales, Scotland and Ireland were awful, England were conservative and dull and France were arguably flamboyant but rubbish until Laporte came along. Plus the Boks were dull and the Pumas and Italy were completely focussed on forward play and scrum obsession. I'm surprised I sat through as much rugby back then as I did.

That's why I'm surprised by a recent post suggesting statistically there is less offloading than say 20 years ago, because I can barely remember seeing any offloading in the 6N between 1995 and 2011.

I would add Bruce, I think the biggest thing that has opened up NH rugby, is drainage,artificial turf allowing players to play a freer style of rugby. etc on

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

On a related theme to the OP, Jamie Joseph says the game is being officiated to favour defences and he will change Japan's tactics accordingly. He is a very bright guy so sadly I don't think he is saying this without good reason. He'd already stopped picking wingers in June and playing larger men (centres) there instead. He is also focussing on non-Japanese natives with more bulk and less flair and pace.

Rugby World Cup: Jamie Joseph says Japan need to tweak their tactics

Japan coach Jamie Joseph says his team will have to change their tactical approach heading into the 2023 Rugby World Cup.

www.planetrugby.com

I am no expert on officiating but I don't think so much that the game is favouring strong defences as it is that it favours big packs perhaps more than it was 5 years ago. My perception is that there are way less turnovers in the breakdown than before and far more tap and go penalties from 5 metres resulting in tries. Both of which favour offence. So what rules or officiating is favouring defences?

 

[miccloarch]

I'd argue it was very different up in the NH as professionalism was way behind Super Rugby. For much of 1995-2011 Wales, Scotland and Ireland were awful, England were conservative and dull and France were arguably flamboyant but rubbish until Laporte came along. Plus the Boks were dull and the Pumas and Italy were completely focussed on forward play and scrum obsession. I'm surprised I sat through as much rugby back then as I did.

That's why I'm surprised by a recent post suggesting statistically there is less offloading than say 20 years ago, because I can barely remember seeing any offloading in the 6N between 1995 and 2011.

The hemisphere split played a big role. From a NH/home nations fan perspective it must've been hard to watch NZ, AUS and (occasionally) SA dominate the new pro era with attractive running rugby. Age plays a role as well. If you were an older French fan, maybe the 1980s was the best decade of rugby you ever witnessed.

I'm always wary of the idea that the contemporary era is the best because it's generally heavily fueled by recency bias (if not a total disregard of history). We never have the perspective of time to see what today's era will look like after it's done and what kids will say about it in the future.