Israel Folau (Tongan: Isileli Folau)

[sigesige00]

I have a question about Israel Folau (Tongan: Isileli Folau).
Why is he not using Tongan name?
Why is "Isileli" is translated to "Israel" in English? Is "Israel" a common name for both Jews and non-Jews?
Is Israel Dagg a Jew?

 

[Reign]

It's just the standardized English translation, it's quite common amongst Islander names to have an English translation, you see a lot of it in Maori as well. The actual Tongan name "Isileli" means 'strength' in Tongan.

 

[sigesige00]

So his name has nothing to do with the State of Israel or Jewish origin, OK?

 

[Reign]

So his name has nothing to do with the State of Israel or Jewish origin, OK?

Not at all.

 

[sigesige00]

"Israel" is pronounced "izrael" on TV. Is this pronunciation right? So why not "Izrael"?

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

That's just the pronunciation of Israel- "iz" as (az?) you say.

Using the "translation" of names is becoming less common, with Faletau reverting to Taulupe rather than Toby, Alesana Tuilagi moving back from Alex and so on. Billy (Villiami) Vunipola isn't the only player to have kept their anglicisation however.

 

[Brigantine]

He was born in New South Wales, calls Queensland his State of Origin, and yet we say he's Tongan...

As I said in another thread:

Countries with Tongan people:

Tonga: 103,000
New Zealand: 60,000
USA: 37,000
Australia: 25,000​

The language the most Tongans speak, is English. Because most Tongans come from English speaking countries. Why *should* they use the Tongan version of their names?
(I am exaggerating just a tiny bit here - some of them are migrants)

In New Zealand English at least, an 's' in the middle of a word pronounced as a 'z'... is entirely normal and expected. It's only US English that swaps 'z's into the spelling of words that are pronounced that way.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

This was kind of my point. They're not translations but anglicisations.

Like calling a Frenchman Philip not Philipe or a Russian Alex not Aleksandrov (or whatever the equivalent is, I have no idea, apologies).

 

[McTallshort]

I have a question about Israel Folau (Tongan: Isileli Folau).
Why is he not using Tongan name?
Why is "Isileli" is translated to "Israel" in English? Is "Israel" a common name for both Jews and non-Jews?
Is Israel Dagg a Jew?

Why should he? It's his choice how he writes his name

 

[die_mole]

Because it's his name and he is the one who agency over what it is and how it is pronounced?

Questioning someone's preferred name or the pronounciation shows disrespect.

 

[Reign]

This thread feels slightly anti-Semitic and deliberately ignorant.

 

[Brigantine]

This thread feels slightly anti-Semitic and deliberately ignorant.

Ignorant, sure. But I'm ok with people asking questions about topics they're ignorant about. The alternative is for people to stay ignorant forever.

I don't think it's really fair to call someone anti-semitic just because they think Israel has something to do with jews.
And I note no one has mentioned jews or Israel (the country) since we clarified that there is no connection to Israel (the name).

Reminds me of that time someone stole a vase from a museum in Baghdad once, and it was caught on camera. That same footage was re-played (in previews of the 6pm news etc.) 5 times a day for a week, and you think "man, Baghdad has a *ton* of ancient vases".

 

[sigesige00]

This thread feels slightly anti-Semitic and deliberately ignorant.

Not "deliberately ignorant" at all. I had known nothing about "translating" names. I am an anti-Zionist and for a secular socialist Palestine but not anti-Semitic at all.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Not "deliberately ignorant" at all. I had known nothing about "translating" names. I am an anti-Zionist and for a secular socialist Palestine but not anti-Semitic at all.

Oh.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Questioning someone's preferred name or the pronounciation shows disrespect.

Not really.
I've have a weird surname and found out how to pronounce it correctly as a grown up when i was abroad and was corrected when someone noticed it's origin and the way i mispronounced it.
Felt no disrespect. I actually thanked the person who corrected me.

But I suppose it is very case specific, so you might have a point.

 

[Reign]

Ignorant, sure. But I'm ok with people asking questions about topics they're ignorant about. The alternative is for people to stay ignorant forever.

I don't think it's really fair to call someone anti-semitic just because they think Israel has something to do with jews.
And I note no one has mentioned jews or Israel (the country) since we clarified that there is no connection to Israel (the name).

Reminds me of that time someone stole a vase from a museum in Baghdad once, and it was caught on camera. That same footage was re-played (in previews of the 6pm news etc.) 5 times a day for a week, and you think "man, Baghdad has a *ton* of ancient vases".

You remind me of every Liberal in the world. Happy to treat you own as your enemy and a hostile stranger as your friend.

Fighting against racism and bigotry, only to hypocritically defend it when it's religious.

 

[ncurd]

You remind me of every Liberal in the world. Happy to treat you own as your enemy and a hostile stranger as your friend.

Fighting against racism and bigotry, only to hypocritically defend it when it's religious.

How did anything he write identify him as a liberal? Plus his point was entirely correct....unless you want explain how people are being anti-semetic....

Pronunciation/spelling is one the biggest problems there is when it comes to someone's name. I really do make an effort to try to pronounce people's names as they see it (after all it's their name or how they wish to be address).

This comes from several experiences one I hate being called by my full name and am referred to by all a shortened form. Unless people are doing it for comedic effect it actually winds me up, I also hate being referred to as other versions of my full name as that's not me. A person has the right to be known as they wish and it disrespectful to that person to call them something different.


Another thing comes from Anglisation which help's pronunciation for example myself and my wife really like the Irish name Eilís however that will be constant source of irritation in her life as people constantly butcher it. As such we'll likely spell it in Anglicised forms of Ailish or Eilish.

 

[AzaMatt]

Another thing comes from Anglisation which help's pronunciation for example myself and my wife really like the Irish name Eilís however that will be constant source of irritation in her life as people constantly butcher it. As such we'll likely spell it in Anglicised forms of Ailish or Eilish.

To be fair irish names are hard to guess at, met someone once with the name spelt Caoime (or something like that) and the name is actually pronounced Qweeva. i guess if you speak gallic it would be easier to understand though

 

[McTallshort]

To be fair irish names are hard to guess at, met someone once with the name spelt Caoime (or something like that) and the name is actually pronounced Qweeva. i guess if you speak gallic it would be easier to understand though

Not as hard as polish names. I work with 4 polish girls and they are called Maggie, Aggie, Patty and Roxy. No one can pronounce their real names even me who is married to a Pole. We English are bloody terrible with names but then we have always bastardisded peoples names even our own

 

[Brigantine]

You remind me of every Liberal in the world. Happy to treat you own as your enemy and a hostile stranger as your friend.

Fighting against racism and bigotry, only to hypocritically defend it when it's religious.

1: Happy to be called a free-market liberal. Knock yourself out. Taxation is theft. Agriculture subsidies and tariffs are the biggest obstacles to progress.
2: There has been nothing in this thread whatsoever about religion. Or at least not unambiguously so. Context: most jews aren't religious, it's mainly about heritage and culture (especially WRT American politics). I don't know the religious beliefs of a single person in this thread, and you don't know mine.
3a: I choose my friends and enemies very carefully. It is apparent you do not.
3b: Stop trolling already. You aren't exactly doing very well at dissuading me of the instinct that you are, in fact, the latest re-incarnation of the kiwi / douchebag.