Lions - Six Nations 2025 Auditions

[odw26]

You'd like to hope that there are no agendas this summer and that both will work well together assuming Russell isn't left out of the squad.

There's no justifiable reason for Russell to be left out of the squad, unless Sexton still has a massive chip on his shoulder about his exclusion/Russell's inclusion from 2021 and his opinion is given far too much weight in the selection process. I'll echo your sentiments from earlier: I'm really looking forward to this tour, so long as it is based on merit; if it goes the other way and players are selected for "other" reasons, I simply will not watch it. I'm too young to remember/understand what the issues surrounding the 2005 tour were, so not sure about the comparisons being made to that.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Henshaw, POM and maybe Hansen aside, is there any starting Irish player who won the slam in 23 and the championship last year (so remove Crowley and Prendergast) who doesn't deserve to tour?

The team hasn't been at it's height but it's mostly down to changing the attacking approach.

From the above we're essentially at 12 (Bundee and Ringrose tour discounting Henshaw). Kelleher, Ryan and Conan are all deserving if they get picked. Then Hansen, one of the 10s and Henshaw are all deserving of being in the conversation depending on the make up of the squad. I can even see reason to bring POM because there's not much by the way of dawg and experience in the options available.

Basically it would be totally fair to bring 16-18 players from the best team of the four.

 

[odw26]

Basically it would be totally fair to bring 16-18 players from the best team of the four.

Is anyone really disputing that? The majority of Lions squads posted on here and in other places I've seen have roughly the same number of Irish touring.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is anyone really disputing that? The majority of Lions squads posted on here and in other places I've seen have roughly the same number of Irish touring.

The last couple pages of this thread would suggest it.

 

[Reiser99]

One argument I would make for including some players who maybe aren't the best in form players is that this is a touring side that ostensibly needs to make money. You want fans involved and if there is too much bias or fans feel there is then it puts them off. We saw this under Gatland. The lions need home nation fans to be buying merchandise, travelling as away support to create an atmosphere etc...

Yes the Lions want to win, but they also need to make the squad feel inclusive to keep fans involved. We've already seen plenty of fans who are disillusioned by the Lions and with the financial state of rugby, you can't really afford to put off more fans.

 

[odw26]

Yes the Lions want to win, but they also need to make the squad feel inclusive to keep fans involved. We've already seen plenty of fans who are disillusioned by the Lions and with the financial state of rugby, you can't really afford to put off more fans.

I'd argue this would put fans off. If players don't deserve to go, they don't deserve to go. People will be more put off with players not deserving of their place going for whatever reason, than they will with an unequal national representation. Imagine that from a playing perspective as well, being told you're not going because there are too many of your compatriots going, so your place has been given to a less-deserving player because he is of a different nationality.

 

[retired9]

Russell is the only available 10 (as far as I'm aware) who has proven Lions experience, I don't think Marcus got much of a look in in '21 if I remember correctly. The Lions attack look utter **** until he got a run out in the third test, instantly we had pace and go forward which was AWOL under Biggar.

IMO, with no bias, Finn Smith had the best 6N out of the FR, SP, FS selection pool. Russell actually had a decent tournament, bar the kicking v England his defence and distribution was very good and miles ahead of the others for creativity.

Prendergast I have little doubt will become very very good, however even behind the pack Ireland have he wasn't fully settled which is completely to be expected. I am 50/50 on whether he tours, as others mentioned a summer in the gym will bring more benefit than this tour will.

Sexton, well I hope he brings something useful and isn't just sore/bitter about yesteryear - happy to be proven wrong but I fear his ego is there for massaging more than anything.

 

[odw26]

The last couple pages of this thread would suggest it.

Interesting you've come to that conclusion, because the main issue appears to be with the appointment of Sexton. Before then, no one really had an issue with 16-18 Irish players going, so it would be hypocritical if those same people now have an issue with those 16-18 players going simply because Sexton is now on the coaching staff. The only person who's name has been reared as being under threat of not touring or being ousted from an (IMO) deserved Test start is Russell, but that could very easily be the media trying to make a story out of something, and there may end up being no tangible difference to the Lions selection criteria.

 

[General Melchett]

Not saying Faz doesn't deserve this gig because he absolutely does but for future tours part of me would like to see an outsider come in as HC for a one-off gig. All the bias talk immediately goes away if the HC isn't the incumbent of one of the home nations.

Rassie or Schmidt coaching the Lions against NZ. Yes some may say they don't get the Lions ethos but Graham Henry got the gig in 2001 and it would be gold from a media perspective if the HC had some personality. The brand of rugby might not be the most expansive but the tests are usually tight affairs anyway with not many tries.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't see Russell not going. I think FS is the best 10 available followed by Russell. Shootout between M Smith, Prendergast and Farrell from there.

I hope Prendergast doesn't go, he'd be better served with Ireland but his last two Leinster performances have put him back in the conversation and he looks to be addressing his weaknesses.

I'd go with the Fin, Finn and Farrell tbh. Farrell's form isn't there but he's the sort of quality you bring on a tour and hope he finds it, sometimes it works like Bowe in 2013 and othertimes it doesn't like Kearney in 2013. I'm sure there's examples of both from the last two tours but I can't remember them as well.

I think that approach probably goes against the "ethos" of the tour but it's an amateur idea adapted to professionalism. I think that applies to @irisht 's post too. To be honest, the France tour of NZ is far more interesting than this jolly.

Interesting you've come to that conclusion, because the main issue appears to be with the appointment of Sexton. Before then, no one really had an issue with 16-18 Irish players going, so it would be hypocritical if those same people now have an issue with those 16-18 players going simply because Sexton is now on the coaching staff. The only person who's name has been reared as being under threat of not touring or being ousted from an (IMO) deserved Test start is Russell, but that could very easily be the media trying to make a story out of something, and there may end up being no tangible difference to the Lions selection criteria.

https://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/lions-six-nations-2025-auditions.50120/page-18#post-1226058

https://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/lions-six-nations-2025-auditions.50120/page-17#post-1226038

https://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/lions-six-nations-2025-auditions.50120/page-18#post-1226109

This was triggered by the selection of the only real option to have a former Lions player on the coaching team in a non critical role, one who also happens to be the best Lions 10 of the pro era.

Does Sexton rate Russell? I doubt it, he never lost a game to him. If he doesn't go, it's professionals making a decision they'll live or die by like Gatland in 2021. Is it bias? Yes but based on their professional decision making, preferences and what they think the squad needs to get the job done, not based on what colour jersey they wear in February and March or a selection out of anyone's control in 2021.

I'm not a Lions fan, I just want this tour to end and not hurt Ireland going into November, it'd be great if it helps us in some way. If that's Farrell's approach then he's going about it the wrong way but he was a Lions coach before Ireland and realistically this is his only chance for him to represent a test side of his own country and not an adopted one. Can't see him ever going back to England after the way things ended with both him and his son in that set up.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I normally get right into it when the Lions tour comes around, but this time I genuinely couldn't give a toss about it. This reeks of 2005 all over again - jobs for the boys, and a squad that will probably not be picked on form. The only difference is that this Lions team could win the series because they're up against an improving, but still relatively weak Australian side.

So what you’re saying is, get Gatland back.

 

[odw26]

I don't see Russell not going

Neither do I, I think there’s been an overreaction in that regard.

I'd go with the Fin, Finn and Farrell tbh

Farrell over Marcus Smith, or are you including Smith as a utility back?

This was triggered by the selection of the only real option to have a former Lions player on the coaching team in a non critical role, one who also happens to be the best Lions 10 of the pro era.

You’re right, there have been a couple of comments, but I’d say that most of their sentiment- “hoping it doesn’t become an Ireland/Leinster development tour”- would mean more than the 16-18 players already touted as probables by yourself recently and others previously. As that’s already been established as an agreeable number, there’s no real current argument against that number of Irish players regardless of Sexton’s inclusion.

Does Sexton rate Russell? I doubt it

Does Sexton rate Russell? I doubt it, he never lost a game to him. If he doesn't go, it's professionals making a decision they'll live or die by like Gatland in 2021

Sexton doesn’t- he’s made that clear. Whether he’s still got a chip on his shoulder from 2021 and how loud his voice will be in selection meetings no one knows.

Depends on the thought process. Many, myself included, may be being unfair on Sexton and any perceived biases against Russell may be already gone and the tour will be approached in a professional capacity. And, if Russell doesn’t go, fingers will be pointed at this appointment.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

One argument I would make for including some players who maybe aren't the best in form players is that this is a touring side that ostensibly needs to make money.

It's a fun novelty but why should we care how much money these people earn?

It's not like it positively impacts the unions, it fucks up the following year and they don't get any money from it

 

[Reiser99]

It's a fun novelty but why should we care how much money these people earn?

It's not like it positively impacts the unions, it fucks up the following year and they don't get any money from it

Don't the Lions as a business need to make money to continue? I'm looking more from their point of view.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Don't the Lions as a business need to make money to continue? I'm looking more from their point of view.

Ah, I getya

I don't care at all about that, tbf, but I'd understand their way of thinking about it

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's a fun novelty but why should we care how much money these people earn?

It's not like it positively impacts the unions, it fucks up the following year and they don't get any money from it

I think there's a catch 22 re representation there too. It's a huge financial incentive for the players, fans don't care about that but picking a less deserving player to have more representation around the four countries can't happen as a result.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Rumours James O'Connor might get recall to the wallabies team based on his Saders form

IF true I will be buying a Wallabies jersey for the tour

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Neither do I, I think there's been an overreaction in that regard.



Farrell over Marcus Smith, or are you including Smith as a utility back?



You're right, there have been a couple of comments, but I'd say that most of their sentiment- "hoping it doesn't become an Ireland/Leinster development tour"- would mean more than the 16-18 players already touted as probables by yourself recently and others previously. As that's already been established as an agreeable number, there's no real current argument against that number of Irish players regardless of Sexton's inclusion.





Sexton doesn't- he's made that clear. Whether he's still got a chip on his shoulder from 2021 and how loud his voice will be in selection meetings no one knows.

Depends on the thought process. Many, myself included, may be being unfair on Sexton and any perceived biases against Russell may be already gone and the tour will be approached in a professional capacity. And, if Russell doesn't go, fingers will be pointed at this appointment.

I wouldn't bring M Smith. Agree with the rest yeah. If Russell doesn't go and the Lions win however, not much to talk about. All results based at this level.

 

[Saintjay]

Prendergast tours, Russell doesn't. Watch the world burn.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I honestly can't wait for the 8th of May. It's my pay day.