Loose head advice needed.

[Mattygwrufc]

Evenin all. I'm new to the forums so please feel free to prod, poke and pick at my query.

So anyways. I'm a hooker by trade been playing there for a few years. However the time has come for me to be a real man and move to prop. I've been told it's going to be loose head as its probably easier to grasp (not my words).

Basically I'm a 5ft10 bloke average build weighing 15 and a half stones.

I'm not weak for my weight in fact I isually squat more than my prop colleagues. I have been watching videos of mtawaria and obviously Os du randt but I think I need a bit more guidance from the more available players.

Basically I need an old head on broad shoulders to guide me.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks in advance.

 

[ORothlain]

Hey,
I've played prop for 16 years, been a head coach, and a forwards coach. I can lend a bit of advice.
People tend to say loosehead is easier. I think it can be to a certain extent, but I play tighthead more often than not, and prefer it. Propping is all about where you find your niche. So, good luck, and welcome to the big show!
The loose and tight props have different objectives. Your goal is to hold the scrum steady, and keep it together. The opposition tighthead is trying to break things apart for you.
The main thing to keep in mind is that you're not just cannon fodder on the front line, you're a strategic beast, yoked to drive a winning scrum.

1. Watch your foot placement – wide base and feet slightly staggered (left foot slightly ahead of right foot – reverse for a tight head).
2. Work on core strength. You'll need it to hold yourself steady against an experienced tighthead. You should incorporate planking into your workouts (even a daily thing). http://www.t-nation.com/training/superhuman-planks
3. Deadlift, Squat, and Overhead press should be the cornerstone of your workout routine. Focus on form over weight. People who do these exercises with poor form will 1. Injure themselves, and 2. Have poor performance.
4. TIghtheads like to pull down on your outside (left) shoulder/arm, and drive inbetween you and the hooker. Keep your bind tight, and keep your shoulders and back flat. This is why core strength is crucial.
5. Getting low is essential. Work on that. Keep your back flat, and bend at the hips. Squeeze your shoulder blades together, and keep your neck neutral.

I like the Beast, I'd also say take a look at Cian Healy. Mike Ross (Irish Tighthead) said this: "he's an absolute nightmare because he just gets settled down, gets his feet under him and gets in a good position for when the ball comes in." (http://www.the42.ie/mike-ross-leinster-1144318-Oct2013/)
If you have any questions about any terms, or ideas I've shared please ask, and let's discuss.

 

[smartcooky]

Pretty much everything that @ORothlain said is on the money. I'd just add to his item 4

One of the ways that tightheads try to disrupt the scrum is to bind on the lucy's arm just above the elbow.

This THP is illegally bound on the Lucy's arm. He can then pull downwards and inwards on that arm, and fold the lucy in, which is what he has started to do.

In order to minimise his effectiveness, the straighter your bind, the more difficult it is for him to fold you in.

I think this is Healy v Castrogiovanni, always a great propping contest.

See how the Green Lucy has his arm straighter and his bind longer. It is much more difficult for the Blue THP to bind just above the Green prop's elbow and therefore fold him in. If he tries to, the angle of his forearm is going be vertical or beyond, much easier for the referee to spot.

If you have trouble with an opposing THP consistently doing this to you, get the captain to have a word to the referee about it. You may not get an immediate result from it, but you will put it in the referee's mind. Just make sure that afterwards, YOU do everything legally though because I can tell you from experience that referees do pay attention to things that captains point out.

 

[Mattygwrufc]

Cheers chaps. Didn't expect as anywhere near as much info as that.

I'll take it all into the next few weeks and give you a heads up.

Hopefully I will be the next Cain Healy

 

[RedruthRFC]

I'll qualify this post by saying that the last time I played prop, I was ten years old in a three man scrum, but a question for those with more front row expertise.....

Doesn't conventional wisdom say that it would make more sense to convert from hooker to tight head given that the prototype physique and the nature of the role is more similar?

If you're interested in tight head play, here's a brilliant article from a brilliant scrummager:

http://www.abudhabiquins.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Coaching-Playing-Tighthead.pdf

It's pre-law changes, so some those with more experience / knowledge may highlight areas that are no longer valid, but I'd have thought that it's still worth a read. There's a few hints for looseheads too if you read between the lines.

 

[ORothlain]

Doesn't conventional wisdom say that it would make more sense to convert from hooker to tight head given that the prototype physique and the nature of the role is more similar?

I think you can find people that would have a preference, but to me, it's more mentality and comfort than physical build. I could be wrong.
When I'm looking at who can tighthead when I have a batch of new, inexperienced players (which is the norm here in the US of A), I tend to throw the more aggressive fellow in at tight head, and the more methodical one at loose.

- - - Updated - - -

Cheers chaps. Didn't expect as anywhere near as much info as that.

I'll take it all into the next few weeks and give you a heads up.

Hopefully I will be the next Cain Healy 

Best of luck @Mattygwrufc! Keep us posted, and don't hesitate to hit the forum up with questions!

 

[Boring Ian]

You don't choose the side the side chooses you. Try both and whichever feels right is right. If you are comfortable both sides then you are either a natural and don't need our advice or you aren't a prop at all and should go back to being the middle man.

For me there is little point watching great props as it is an inate skill that you either have or you don't. For the rest of us it's really all about dominating your opposite number by fair means or foul.

At loosehead watch Marler who is an average 'legal' scrummager but uses a clever angle to pinch in on his opposite tight head to get at the opposition hooker. Then watch Mako who does essentially the same thing but with much less guile and creates a bigger risk of drawing a penalty making him a bad scrummager and a liability in my book. I never felt right at loose as I am left handed so wanted to bind to my hooker at that side and wanted to use my left shoulder to drive.

At tighthead you want to protect your hooker and look to split the opposite loosehead from his hooker with a straight drive. I always used to look combine this with trying to slip my opposite number either up or down depending on our respective heights and accounting for any up or down direction from him. For example if I can feel he wants to push me up try and get underneath him and encourage that upward motion to isolate him from the drive. If he is trying to drive down hold back and let him under and then drive forward over his shoulder. Allow him under but never drive him down into the turf that is dangerous.

Not scrummaged for a while now but at tighthead a tip that served me well was to get a handfull of shirt in my right hand and just at the engagement (or just before the drive using today's rules) rotate your arm clockwise to wrench a gap between opposition loose head and hooker and to drive into and hopefully drop loosehead's right shoulder so you can drive flat over it.

Overall it is about building a box of tricks and getting to know how to beat your opponent throughout the game. Knock ons are your friend. You also need to play the referee as they know absolutely nothing and often the dominant prop will be the one being pinged - see vickery vs the beast as a prime example of the better man losing out. vickery was only at fault for not recognising that the ref was an idiot and adapting (CHEATING) to compensate.

 

[ORothlain]

You don't choose the side the side chooses you.

Ha Ha Ha! You sound a bit like Yoda. I think there's a bit of truth there.

For me there is little point watching great props as it is an inate skill that you either have or you don't.

This I wholeheartedly disagree with. It is a SKILL. Any skill can be developed. This takes hard work and discipline. If you want to succeed at either side of the scrum, you can definitely work on it, watch top scrummagers, get feedback on your form and performance, and make tweaks to your game.

Todays forwards, especially props, are forged in the gym. If you want to be successful, hit the weights.

 

[RedruthRFC]

The attitude that will one day see the USA as rugby's only superpower ^^^

 

[Boring Ian]

I think the point I was clumsily trying to make was that you might be better trying to emulate less natural but canny scrummagers than you are trying to scrummage like a world class prop. It is a truism to say that you can develop a skill, but there is a reason why only a handful of the hundreds of international props can successfully scrummage without bending the rules.

It would be silly to say brute strength doesn't help but you are always gonna run up against a stronger guy at some point, and what then? Apparently Dan Cole breaks all the weights records at Leicester and can deadline an elephant. I think his technique is solid and pretty legal. Most days he seems to come out on top but I have seen him put in trouble a few times too. Same with Sheridan and Can Healey. Strength will win you a lot of battles but not all of them.

 

[baboonhunter]

Its a common misconception that there is skill to being a prop. Basically no one else cares so we let the props talk themselves up. If you really want to improve just hit the burgers. Bulk is the only trait a prop needs. Anything else is just a bonus. Few greasy feasts and you'll be Duncan jones in no time

 

[Perthshire]

From a referee's Pov I shall always endeavour to talk to the 2 front rows & replacements Pre-game and part of the conversation goes like this -
" Right Gents/Ladies at scrum time I shall be looking for a long bind up onto your opponents jersey. The longer the bind the safer the scrum. I shall talk you through the first few scrums."

 

[smartcooky]

Its a common misconception that there is skill to being a prop. Basically no one else cares so we let the props talk themselves up. If you really want to improve just hit the burgers. Bulk is the only trait a prop needs. Anything else is just a bonus. Few greasy feasts and you'll be Duncan jones in no time

You're kidding right? The tighthead is often the heaviest front row player in the scrum.

A skiiled lighter weight prop can take an unskilled heavier opponent to to the cleaners. I have seen a Lucy give away 20Kg+ to a tighthead prop and make him his personal *****!

 

[thechosenfamily]

You're kidding right? The tighthead is often the heaviest front row player in the scrum.

A skiiled lighter weight prop can take an unskilled heavier opponent to to the cleaners. I have seen a Lucy give away 20Kg+ to a tighthead prop and make him his personal *****!

I think Baboonhunter was trying the Austin Healy style of forwards are fatties humour.