New Zealand New Flag Choices down to 4!

Discussion in 'The Clubhouse Bar' started by Tigs Man, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. TRF_nickdnz

    TRF_nickdnz Super Moderator

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    Full disclosure I used to work as a communications adviser to a national MP.

    But changing the flag was also part of the Labour AND Green's campaign promises. They have simply back flipped because they are in opposition. Key's approval ratings haven't slided because of the flag either; despite media objections. I also can't see it going through - but more because I feel people are buying into it as a partisan issue, rather than what it is, which is an opportunity to get rid of our boring and crappy flag. The reality is that National said in 2008 that if they made it to a third term they would opt to change the flag - so it's not as if it's a sudden abuse of power. They also have made the process as democratic as possible, so it's laughable that they are being portrayed as 'doing whatever they want'. In reality other countries changed their flag with no democratic process.

    Not as inspired with the flag options as I could have been, but I prefer it to the current one.
     
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  3. back2back

    back2back BANNED!!!

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    That design is not better than the current flag in my opinion, it's not symmetrical, it looks more like an All Blacks beach towel than a flag. More effort should have been put into the designs over a longer campaign, changing the flag isn't a bad thing at all, but plastering a big fern in the top left where the old Jack used to be seems like a rushed job. With better preparation and design and tactfulness the campaign could have worked, but John Key went at it arrogantly thinking the people of NZ would follow like sheep because of his popularity. It's a bad campaign PR wise and design wise.

    For the record, using national icons like McCaw and Carter in attempts to change peoples voting isn't exactly democratic, it's manipulative.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
  4. TRF_nickdnz

    TRF_nickdnz Super Moderator

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    Well there was 10,000 odd submission, narrowed down by an independent commission to 40, then narrowed further to four, but then increased to 5 by public submission. So not exactly rushed. It isn't symmetrical - but it would be strange to vote for keeping out equally Asymmetrical flag on that basis. Like I said - I don't love the design - but it's subjective. Personally I'd have liked the silver fern and black background - and I voted for the closest option which is the current one.

    I'm not sure you understand the meaning of democracy. Because someone advocates for an option does not make it undemocratic, it makes it policy...
     
  5. back2back

    back2back BANNED!!!

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    In all honesty, I would have voted for the flag change if it was a flag I liked and if the campaign was presented better, I feel he's following the guidelines to democracy rather than respecting them with moves like getting the AB's behind it. Some of the motives and reasons were fairly hollow as well, "It looks like Australia's flag" etc isn't a strong argument, they never complain that their flag looks like ours? And I don't see Belgium complaining that their flag looks like Germanys or Italys looks like Mexico's. It's just not a strong enough campaign to push it through and the options aren't good enough, even you have reservations about the design.
     
  6. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur First XV

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    Australia's and NZ's flag are objectively similar, particularly from a distance or in small sizes (the kind you see on backpacks, etc).

    I don't think a lot of people confuse Belgium's flag with Germany's just as not many people confuse Russia's with France's.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  7. austingtir

    austingtir First XV

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    The whole thing smacked of a commission that was hand picked by you know who, with tunnel vision for one outcome. Which is why the whole things been a shambles.

    The flags options they came up with were frankly appalling. The bias and cronyism shown throughout the process is John Keys real legacy but I suspect he doesnt realise that even now.

    The fact as stated earlier by another poster the only reason Keys gotten away with it all is the joke that is the opposition.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
  8. Superalexmarket

    Superalexmarket Bench Player

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    Why not the same flag, with a legend in the bottom: "We're not Australia"
     
  9. austingtir

    austingtir First XV

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    More like "The convicts stole our flag design...." Seriously for those that dont know NZ's flag came first (like 50 years) but Australia adopted their design a year before us.


    If we do change our flag dont be surprised if we see an aussie flag with a roo or some other retarded animal in top left corner not far behind..... You heard it here first.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
  10. Superalexmarket

    Superalexmarket Bench Player

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    And the new australian flag is....

    [​IMG]
     
  11. back2back

    back2back BANNED!!!

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    This is really what the new design is;

    [​IMG]

    Honestly, all this because our flag looks like Aussies (inferiority complex anyone?) and John Key thought it was a good idea after a few beers with his mates.

    Why do we have to change it because it looks like Aussies?
     
  12. TRF_nickdnz

    TRF_nickdnz Super Moderator

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    Cause I want it changed. It's amazing how people assume because they feel a way, they can speak for everyone else, and any other view is invalid. I don't like our flag. It's a long time since the union jack has really been representative of NZ. I live in Germany at the moment; and I see the NZ flag and shrug. I wear an AB jersey with a silver fern and I feel closer to home. When I ask others here which flag they prefer - almost all think the new one is better.

    I think people are so caught up in the partisan aspect of the flag debate, the they become too short sighted.
     
  13. TRF_SelimNiai

    TRF_SelimNiai 'Ark at ee mun!

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    I didn't think that was (mostly) the reason. I thought it was due to the thought having the Union Flag in the canton was, for lack of a better word, archaic?

    Forgive me if I'm wrong.

    Also, do you know when the results will be known?
     
  14. back2back

    back2back BANNED!!!

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    I'm just yanking a few chains.

    The flag needed revamped, but they blew it with the designs and the campaign became a John Key crusade.

    Results are out 24th of March.
     
  15. TRF_SelimNiai

    TRF_SelimNiai 'Ark at ee mun!

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    Designs aren't great but I guess when you've had a flag for so long it anything that isn't it, even if you dont like it, would look odd. (I really hope that made sense). As someone who has no affinity for New Zealand I like the 1st in the OP but my opinion matters naff I guess.
     
  16. back2back

    back2back BANNED!!!

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    Yeah that's the one it's come down to. That vs our current flag! It's really divided the country, either way it goes, there will be unhappy people, but I think if it gets changed, the underclass here will be extremely angry and demand answers to why the money wasn't spent on such and such etc.
     
  17. Rich Taff

    Rich Taff First XV

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    I think I found the campaign for change video.



    I'm not adverse to admitting I may be wrong though....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  18. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Hall of Fame

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    So get your sh*t stars off our flag is still relevant in NZ then.
     
  19. Southern Stag

    Southern Stag Academy Player

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    Thank god common sense prevailed and we are keeping our flag as it is, what a waste of many millions of dollars, thanks John Key, for nothing!
     
  20. TRF Mr Fish

    TRF Mr Fish Your Piscine Overlord

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    Why is it common sense?
     
  21. austingtir

    austingtir First XV

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    Why's it not!?
     
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