No French team in next year Hcup?

Discussion in 'European Champions & Challenge Cup' started by DonBilly, Dec 11, 2006.

  1. DonBilly

    DonBilly Guest

    The LNR are seriously considering not involving French teams next season in the H-cup. As you know there's still no agreement with the ERC on the H-cup format for next 4 or 5 years. The RFU and the English Rugby Premiership clubs are disagreeing on who should represent England in the ERC.

    French Rugby, i.e. LNR & FFR, have difficulties with the next season calendar due to the Rugby World cup. The Top14 28 dates + the Test Rugby fill almost completely the available dates. The LNR is therefore likely to announce no participation from the French clubs arguing that there's no security that the best English clubs will participate.

    In parallel of that the LNR should make a proposal for a new organisation of the calendar for the H-cup. They should propose a 5-6 weeks competition prior to the domestic season which correspond to the RWC window. This means that every 4 years when the RWC is played there won't be H-cup.

    From what I read this proposal should be ok for the English clubs but is likely to be acceptable for the Celtic and Italian teams. I fear that this ends up in a Franco-English competition if there's no consensus found in Europe in the right format of the continental champioship.
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  3. loratadine

    loratadine Guest

    ummm interesting tht is. Edit: There is no need for your Anti-English comments Lora

  4. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    well that's not the answer either, without the English the tournament would be diluted, inspite of their not so stellar showing in this seasons or last seasons competition.

    I think the HEC is the pinacle of club rugby in the Northern Hemisphere and to not have it once every 4 years won't go down too well with the Magners league sides I'd imagine.

    It does seem strange though that there's tv deals in place yet no arrangement in place for the compeition itself, I'm surprised the broadcasters allowed that to happen.

    I think this might raise the question of having a more uniform season, playing the Heineken Cup in one block, the league in another, then the internationals.
  5. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Most likely that the ML, Italy and France would go off and their own cup and leave England to tear itself apart.

    Edinburgh and Scarlets deserve a decent semi-final anyway.

    On the good side, this will just increase pressure on the English and French teams to compromise to a standerdised season in the north.
  6. DonBilly

    DonBilly Guest

    Well I am not that sure that the French would play in a competition without the English clubs. For French Rugby keep in mind that the number one priority is to keep the Top14, the clubs prevail on the national side, this may be reconsidered if for example the RWC 2007 campaign ends in a big failure, for example France not qualifying foer the QF, but for the time being the French are more likely to get rid of the H-cup than changing their Top14. That's why the English conflicting views about the H-cup are the right excuse the LNR want to use.
  7. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    I don't think this is a question of blaming the English as well. Remember Blanco was whingeing back in March about wanting a bigger slice of the revenue so that's what this seems to be more about and they're using these other issues as a smokescreen.
  8. loratadine

    loratadine Guest

    Edit: Lora, Do you really want to get permanently banned? Because you are heading the right way.


    what the? i didnt say anything out of order there, i jst think tht the super powers should stob sabre rattling and just get out if they dont want to be in this competition, they cant just pick and choose when they want to compete in it!!
  9. Lose the English clubs, the competition would be much worse.

    Lose the French clubs, the competition would be much worse.

    Lose both and there's no point.

    Some people seem to have conveniently forgotten that English clubs lead the way in Heineken Cup victories, with the French just one step behind.
  10. loratadine

    loratadine Guest

    i think these two need to wake up and realise tht while they hold the purse strings, there not the superpowers anymore and cant bully the rest of europe about!!
  11. What will you have without the English and French clubs?

    Basically the Celtic League with a few crap Italian sides thrown in. A competition which would, in all likelyhood, be won by Munster or Leinster. And would generate little interest and virtually no revenue.
  12. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    True, but the the Heineken Cup is meant to be a European competition, not a Home Nations competition with Italy tacked on at the sides.

    I agree completely with DonBilly, France has this legendary ability to **** into the wind while not getting wet. They will do their own thing come what may, even if France crash out of the next three world cups at the group stages!
  13. They simply cannot be allowed to flush all the prestige & respect this competition has gained be flushed down the toilet in an argument over money/scheduling. It is a fantastic competition that needs to be protested & nurtured at all costs.
  14. danit

    danit Guest


    it's the HCup the real important NH competition, not the domestic leagues

    just play a september-xmas 10-12 games HCup (with 3 weeks november tm window) and shortened january-june domestic leagues, and you'll get:
    - much more high-quality rugby
    - much less top players stress, having full rest for 40 summer days
    - close, step by step, the gap with SH
  15. O'Rothlain

    O'Rothlain Guest

    That makes the most sense.

    I also agree that the H Cup is vastly more important than the GP, the ML or the LNR. Those competitions should serve as national qualifiers for the European Championship.
  16. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    It would be much easier to cut down the number of matches everyone plays in the GP, ML and LNR and then using the freed up matches for a proper HC knockout competition.
  17. Just get rid of the Anglo-Welsh....everyone's either in the Heineken or the European Challenge.

    Have the Powergen for the could make it a national competition for the 2nd tier if you wanted.

    The Heineken has to be preserved.
  18. Here's a thought. Scrap the playoffs in the Guiness Premiership, the revolutionary idea introduced by the RFU which has led to even more matches for top players. And how about we get rid of the stupid Anglo-Welsh Cup, going back to the straight knockout format used previously.

    Basically, take everything back about 5 years and you cut out a lot of unnecessary matches.
  19. O'Rothlain

    O'Rothlain Guest

    Does anyone even care about the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
  20. DonBilly

    DonBilly Guest

    This was not my point at all although I love blaming the English as any sensible French guy ;). In this case I think the LNR headed by Serge Blanco are just looking for an easy excuse, nothing else. As I said it's a question of priority. For the English speaking people it may look natural to put this international competition at the top of their priority list; international in the end is not that big a difference when all these other people speak the same language and are historicaly linked to your own country. For the usual French guy abroad is something which is not that easy to understand and actualy bar some italian they feel it very British and so not friendly. To get some entertainment on this front there's the VI nation turnament anyway and that's sufficient. What the typical French Rugby supporter likes it's to pursue their endless rivalry. Can you imagine that for a typical Biarritz supporter the derby matchs versus Bayonne are as important as the Top14 final and more important than Test Rugby?

    From this perspective the proposal Serge Blanco is about to make to reorganize the Rugby season calendar should be seriously considered.
  21. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    It's not easy though to reduce the number of teams in France or England, as had been said scrapping the Anglo Welsh Cup seems to be the way to go, keep the Welsh teams in it but make the format as it was.

    France have already reduced the top flight by 2 sides so a further reduction any time soon seems unlikely.

    There's still the novelty factor to this tournament where rivalries really need to build up and that will certainly happen if every country remains in the competition, granted slowly.
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