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Which Tyler said:
Excessively harsh, especially for the front row.

Not every U20 is a future Prem regular; but U20 is WAY too early to be making that call.
In the front row, an U20 star should be 4th choice at best for their club (TBH, only an obvious star should be any further up the chain than 4th choice whilst playing U20). Many clubs will have 4 senior players in the specialist positions (front row & 9). An U20 might be behind 1-2 other academy kids in the same position, let alone 3-4 seniors.
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How many 4th choice hookers in the league that isn't a U20 or hasn't been within the last 2 years like maybe Exeter?

Props I can agree with but Hooker is different
Even at Tigers you have FTT or Vanes at 4th choice
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
How many 4th choice hookers in the league that isn't a U20 or hasn't been within the last 2 years like maybe Exeter?

Props I can agree with but Hooker is different
Even at Tigers you have FTT or Vanes at 4th choice
Click to expand...
Pretty big caveat there.

I can't answer the actual question for other clubs, but Bath's 4th and 5th choice hookers are 22 and 21.
When Stewart was 19 (benching for the U20s) he was 7th-ish choice
Also note - I didn't say that U20 can't be 4th choice, I said that "if they're not, then they're not good enough" is excessively harsh; so different point even without the caveat.

Also interesting that you allow for props, but not for hookers - are hookers less specialised than props? or is it that they take less force through their spine and pelvis during scrummaging? or something else I'm not thinking of?
 
Confirmed leavers then:

Alex Waller
Ethan Waller
Tom Cruise
Paul Hill
Alex Moon
Courtney Lawes
Lewis Ludlum

That’s a core of experienced players there but I do think that those front row players all need upgrades who are a bit bigger and nastier. Lawes and Ludders will almost be impossible to replace.

Big changes at the saints and only Lawes replacement announced so far (although expect Lockett to replace Moon).
 
Which Tyler said:
Pretty big caveat there.

I can't answer the actual question for other clubs, but Bath's 4th and 5th choice hookers are 22 and 21.
When Stewart was 19 (benching for the U20s) he was 7th-ish choice
Also note - I didn't say that U20 can't be 4th choice, I said that "if they're not, then they're not good enough" is excessively harsh; so different point even without the caveat.

Also interesting that you allow for props, but not for hookers - are hookers less specialised than props? or is it that they take less force through their spine and pelvis during scrummaging? or something else I'm not thinking of?
Click to expand...

What was he last season though?

It might be harsh but he’s 21 next season not 19

Less force through the spine and pelvis, reason why a lot more slight built hookers and hookers that thrive at a earlier age than props imo
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
Barring injury crises how much rugby do guys at that level actually play? Are they the 'professional trainers' we sometimes hear about?
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That's a good question.
Academy players and recent graduates look to play in the Championship or at BUCS if they are real young. But it looks like Exeter and Bath roll 4+ deep at prop with veterans.
 
die_mole said:
That's a good question.
Academy players and recent graduates look to play in the Championship or at BUCS if they are real young. But it looks like Exeter and Bath roll 4+ deep at prop with veterans.
Click to expand...
And herein lies an issue with rugby in England.
Too many squad players costing money and also restricting their development.
Hopefully, the strict cap of 35 + 12 will mean more academy players will move onto Championship and strengthen those teams for an overall better product, hence getting more TV money and better chance of creating proper promotion and relegation.
 
higgik said:
Hopefully, the strict cap of 35 + 12 will mean more academy players will move onto Championship and strengthen those teams for an overall better product, hence getting more TV money and better chance of creating proper promotion and relegation.
Click to expand...
and then never come back?

You're more likely to see players drop out and never return, and senior players brought in from abroad, tbh - at the moment academy players go out on loan to champ/nat league sides but still train with the main squad so can step up
Look at Asher stepping up when we had injuries to Schonert and Harper - would he even still be at Sale if we had such strict numbers seeing as we had two senior tightheads and Harper as the transitional one between senior/academy
 
TRF_Olyy said:
and then never come back?

You're more likely to see players drop out and never return, and senior players brought in from abroad, tbh - at the moment academy players go out on loan to champ/nat league sides but still train with the main squad so can step up
Look at Asher stepping up when we had injuries to Schonert and Harper - would he even still be at Sale if we had such strict numbers seeing as we had two senior tightheads and Harper as the transitional one between senior/academy
Click to expand...
Pretty much this
 
TRF_Olyy said:
and then never come back?

You're more likely to see players drop out and never return, and senior players brought in from abroad, tbh - at the moment academy players go out on loan to champ/nat league sides but still train with the main squad so can step up
Look at Asher stepping up when we had injuries to Schonert and Harper - would he even still be at Sale if we had such strict numbers seeing as we had two senior tightheads and Harper as the transitional one between senior/academy
Click to expand...
Not if the number of games was restricted to say 18 per season plus play offs.
The game needs to be more aware of the quality over quantity issue.
 
For us saints fans on here there is saints fans pod cast available. Made by three fans and worth a listen. It’s been weekly at the moment.

Final weekend is upon us :cool:
 
Fissler is reporting that we're after a 12/13 ASAP! Presumably as cover for Odendaal.

Wrong time of year to start looking I fear!
 
Current centres are:

Dingwall, Stephenson, Odendaal and Litchfield.

We also had other players as cover who have left (like Matavesi).

Stephenson was in a boot at the end of this season as well so maybe he’s not going to be fully recovered over the summer.
 
Stephenson? Didn't he leave in 2018?

Odendaal was in a full leg brace and on crutches after the final. Instagram photos showed him in hospital.
 
If Fissler doesn't have a name it's filler.
That's my rule of thumb

since most clubs are being thin with their squad the amount of info Fissler gets is limited and just saying he needs to eat somehow
 
Saints newsletter came out yesterday stating they still have two signings to announce.

I wonder if they are based in France so waiting until their season is done.

I’m guessing there is a tight head lock signing and a centre.
 
Wantage Wanderer said:
Fissler is reporting that we're after a 12/13 ASAP! Presumably as cover for Odendaal.

Wrong time of year to start looking I fear!
Click to expand...
Maybe the wrong time but Saints will have alot of pull atm as prem champions and playing an attractive brand of rugby. So maybe not too bad.
 
Appears that he's had a crack at the NFL's IPP. As part of that training, ended up being 6ft 9 and 22st 7lbs (from the Sun - I know, I disgust myself!)
Meafou is 6ft 8, 22st 11lbs
Skelton is 6ft 8, 21st 4lbs

(according to Wiki)
 
So the overall squad for next season is looking like this at the moment, guessing i'm missing some senior academy players. We also look like at LH in the main squad and maybe too many locks now (two signings all of a sudden).

1719578317660.png

Out
Courtney Lawes
Lewis Ludlam
Alex Waller
Ethan Waller
Paul Hill
Alex Moon
Tom Cruse
Callum Braley
Joel Matavesi
Kayde Sylvester
Geordie Irvine
George Patten
Aston Gradwick-light
Mathew Arden
Nick Tarr
James Grayson
Sam Matavesi


In
Tom West
Josh Kemeny
Luke Green
Fyn Brown
Archie Benson
Charlie Savala
George Nakepeace-Cubitt
George Smith
Callum Hunter-Hill


Snr Academy Intake
Aiden Ainsworth-Cave
Tom Dye
Louis Haley
Billy Pasco
Ollie Scola
Sonny Tonga'uiha
Jonny Weimann
Rafe Witheat
 

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