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NZ should have a second NRL franchise

RoosTah

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Saw this over at Stuff NZ:

[h=1]NZ should have a second NRL franchise[/h]
The time is right for the NRL to give a licence to another franchise in New Zealand.Especially with Marwan Koukash, from Salford in the United Kingdom, looking to throw money at a franchise.
When the last round of franchises came around, the year Gold Coast got a licence, Wellington really missed an opportunity - that licence should have gone to Wellington. There was a bid but it was secretive and the NRL didn't understand the New Zealand landscape as far as rugby league goes.
The NRL is trying to grow the Asia-Pacific and the Americas but first of all they need another franchise in New Zealand.
New Zealand is really important to the NRL - we supply the NRL with more players than Queensland and Queensland has three teams.
Based on population and the number of players supplied to the NRL, we are already well ahead of just the one franchise. We need more. And, it won't affect the Warriors. The Warriors can't keep everyone. There isn't enough opportunity in New Zealand.
In Australia, the players stay in their state and if we had more players able to stay here and be developed it would actually strengthen the Warriors. It wouldn't weaken them.
You would have a better base competition that could supply the numbers into both franchises and that way kids wouldn't want to leave New Zealand. The reason why the best don't leave Australia is because they have enough teams there to supply. Whereas in New Zealand they have no choice if they don't make the cut with the Warriors.
You only have to look at the likes of Peta Hiku and Roger Tuivasa-Sheck - if there had been another franchise and they didn't have to leave New Zealand I am pretty sure they would still be in the mix.
I actually think Christchurch would be a great place to have another franchise. If the city really got behind an NRL franchise bid then the city would be the perfect place with its economy and the way the rebuild is happening at the moment.
I know Wellington is really set up well with the Cake Tin and close to the talent pools in the mid and central North Island and top of the South Island, and, yes, the majority of league players are up in Auckland, but you can't look at it like that.
You have to look at it from an overall rugby - oval ball - perspective. Rugby is the biggest sport in this country and why not give these talented youngsters another professional sporting opportunity. The numbers that go through oval ball sports in general mean there are more than enough to fill another NRL franchise.
A proposal should never be put together just around rugby league. It should be put together around the school system in New Zealand that encourages oval ball sports. It's a no brainer.
And the time is ripe because you have someone like Koukash who wants to invest in a franchise. He would do himself a big favour if he was to say he wanted to come to New Zealand and supply the cash injection to put a franchise in New Zealand.
I think it's a really good opportunity and it's a viable business in New Zealand.
The commercial rights, the TV rights and the big name players mean the NRL is only going to get better. It's the perfect time to get involved.
- Sunday News

I have to say I completely agree, but it's an interesting point he makes about the number of players NZ supply - I didn't know they had more than Queensland, and it actually surprised me a bit.

More broadly though, having another NZ team - and I think Christchurch is actually the way to go (better stadium and better development) - will also simultaneously help to strengthen the interest in the NRL in NZ and build depth in the NZ national team by offering a clear local professional choice for young rugby league and union juniors (and hopefully eat into the All Blacks depth a little too).

Ultimately, I reckon we should be aiming for three in NZ though - Auckland, Christchurch and Wellington - that way the Kiwis will have pretty significant local darbies and the interest from the Networks in NZ should also help grow the TV pie. Of course, the Warriors will need to be renamed "Auckland" though...

What do you guys reckon?
 
I don't see any point in another NZ franchise until one we have currently starts to show some consistent performances. The Warriors seem to swing between outstanding, sometimes breathtakingly good performances, to the dismally bad on a week by week basis, and yet again this year, they have managed to choke out of the top 8. A 12W/12L record with only four wins away from home is simply not good enough.
 
I don't see any point in another NZ franchise until one we have currently starts to show some consistent performances. The Warriors seem to swing between outstanding, sometimes breathtakingly good performances, to the dismally bad on a week by week basis, and yet again this year, they have managed to choke out of the top 8. A 12W/12L record with only four wins away from home is simply not good enough.

I don't know if that's a necessity for expansion in NZ... Just because the Auckland franchise has never been able to crack the competition (although they did make the GF twice) doesn't mean another team shouldn't be set up in NZ. It's the juniors that's the impressive bit - and NZ has a serious claim for a second team.
 
There would have to be a very rich private owner for NZ's second franchise to be successful. I don't think there is the money or interest to have a second team as of yet, while I think until the Warriors actually win something there's not all that much point. NZ produce enough quality players to have a second team sure, but it's keeping them in NZ instead of more impressive bids from other franchises that's the problem.

Not sure how Christchurch has a better stadium for it, they're currently using Rugby League Park for all Canterbury and Crusaders game and that only has a capacity of 18,000.
 
There would have to be a very rich private owner for NZ's second franchise to be successful. I don't think there is the money or interest to have a second team as of yet, while I think until the Warriors actually win something there's not all that much point. NZ produce enough quality players to have a second team sure, but it's keeping them in NZ instead of more impressive bids from other franchises that's the problem.

Not sure how Christchurch has a better stadium for it, they're currently using Rugby League Park for all Canterbury and Crusaders game and that only has a capacity of 18,000.

They don't currently, but I recently attended an investor seminar on Christchurch in which they detailed plans for a substantial rebuild that would be ready about the time of an NRL expansion.
 
I don't see any point in another NZ franchise until one we have currently starts to show some consistent performances. The Warriors seem to swing between outstanding, sometimes breathtakingly good performances, to the dismally bad on a week by week basis, and yet again this year, they have managed to choke out of the top 8. A 12W/12L record with only four wins away from home is simply not good enough.

They won as many games as they lost. Isn't that what you expect a team to do? In a 16 team competition, 8 teams are going to have to miss out on the top 8.

The way I see it, a Christchurch team would be good because they don't compete with Auckland for resources. There are plenty of young rugby league players in New Zealand and the crowds for a Christchurch or Auckland team would be completely different. It is the salary cap, not a lack of money which prevents players from staying in New Zealand.

Rugby League Park would be a fantastic stadium for a Christchurch franchise. Christchurch Rugby League own the ground which means they don't have to pay high rental fees. Case in point the Warriors who needed the double the crowd at Eden Park to breakeven as they did at Mt Smart. Then the new stadium can be used to host the blockbuster games.

Wellingtonians don't get out and support the teams we have. I don't think an NRL franchise would be successful here.
 
They won as many games as they lost. Isn't that what you expect a team to do? In a 16 team competition, 8 teams are going to have to miss out on the top 8.

The way I see it, a Christchurch team would be good because they don't compete with Auckland for resources. There are plenty of young rugby league players in New Zealand and the crowds for a Christchurch or Auckland team would be completely different. It is the salary cap, not a lack of money which prevents players from staying in New Zealand.

Rugby League Park would be a fantastic stadium for a Christchurch franchise. Christchurch Rugby League own the ground which means they don't have to pay high rental fees. Case in point the Warriors who needed the double the crowd at Eden Park to breakeven as they did at Mt Smart. Then the new stadium can be used to host the blockbuster games.

Wellingtonians don't get out and support the teams we have. I don't think an NRL franchise would be successful here.

I didn't realise that was the property of the CRL - that's pretty impressive on its own and should draw interest. And you're right, Wellington always looks empty...
 
NZ have trouble putting together one half decent NRL team, let alone two. The Warriors are either the best team in the comp or the worst team.
 
As far as I can remember the wider Auckland region has the biggest pool of talent youngsters where clubs get players from.
A second team would mean a massive investment and the new club would need a "big shot" with the necessary $$$$$ to lure and keep talented players.

Would he/ she/ them be able to cope with the big Aussie based teams, dunno...
 
No rugby league park is not owned by canterbury rugby league. Unfortunately! ! Council owned facility.

The only ones in league that own significant property, facilities and fields is the celebration league group.
 
also, a new stadium in chch is planned but isn't happening any time soon, there will be rioting if they start on it before the roads are fixed...or houses/CBD/public sanitation/public transport...it will pretty much be the last ting to be built
 
Sorry but until Wellington actually gets out and supports their teams, a league team will fail here with average crowds of probably 8000.
 
I don't see any point in another NZ franchise until one we have currently starts to show some consistent performances. The Warriors seem to swing between outstanding, sometimes breathtakingly good performances, to the dismally bad on a week by week basis, and yet again this year, they have managed to choke out of the top 8. A 12W/12L record with only four wins away from home is simply not good enough.
That's the Warriors, but it doesn't mean to say that another Franchise from New Zealand would perform the same as them.
 
It doesn't mean that the next franchise will be as bad as the Warriors, but I think the point is that a lot of New Zealand's best talent goes to the Warriors. The National Rugby League competition here was always, from what I remember, dominated by North Island teams. Mainly Auckland from memory. Although Canterbury did win it in 2009 .. no idea what's happened to the competition since then. To be honest, I don't know of League's exact popularity here, but Christchurch is a very English city. People love their gardens and like to know what school you went to. My point is, I don't think over here that League is a very middle class sport. How many Christchurch people are there that would actually slot into the NRL? Or would it just be a team of foreign imports? And even for the latter to happen, you'd need someone with money. If it was just a thing where we had rejects from other clubs and a few guys here and there from the Warriors representing out city, then that's kinda crap.

Don't get me wrong, my heart says yes, it'd be very exciting. but my head says it's not realistic. Although a massive positive would be it would give the city something nice for a change. Ever since the earthquakes, nothing really happens here which is a huge shame. I wouldn't want Wellington to get it either though :p . They get enough nice things and don't show up to them as it is.
 
I think it is a bit ridiculous to not have a 2nd NZ team until the 1st team wins the competition. If the Warriors aren't going well then maybe another team will force them to perform better? Besides New Zealand produces more rugby league players than Queensland according to some stats I have seen and they have 3 teams. With the salary cap talent gets spread around quickly. Melbourne have constantly made the top 8 and been very successful even if you ignore their cheating. Hardly any of their players actually come from Victoria. The only impedimanets to getting a team are stadium availability, finance and local support. Local playing numbers is way down the list.
 
If we produce more players than Queensland then can we find some ones good enough for our NRL team? Then people might be a bit more convinced and say "hey yeah, you have a point, maybe we should set up another region with a team."

Again, the point is that the supposed best of that talent pool make the Warriors. If the "best" up until now hasn't been able to do too much, why would the next layer be?
 
I think I heard That The Wellington NRL Bid Has Support From CHCH

If my sources are correct Wellington will have support of their NRL franchise from Christchurch and possibly a NSW Cup team based in Canterbury. This in my opinion would be a game changer and a huge win for Rugby League.
 
I'm torn.

There is certainly talent coming through Wellington (Wainui etc) and the upper South Is but I don't see the justification in another team. I would support another team most definitely, but I don't see fan support being significant enough to warrant it.

An example (a poor one) would be the recent 4 nations Final - 25,000 for the 2nd Biggest International Competition. That match would've sold out in Auckland. The Anzac test match in 2012 at Eden Park had 35,000.
The Biggest League game in Wellington was a NZ Warriors vs Bulldogs in 2013 with about 30,000. These are two already established teams.

The Wellington Phoenix has an average of attendance about 8,000 per year during its existence. Any new NZ team would have to at least have something close to this AND have the depth to be competitive. Of the current 2014 squad, Gubb, Mannering, Laumape, Matulino and Sam Rapira are the only players from south of the Bombay Hills (i think).

I'd like to think that the Financial backers behind the new NZ Team are extremely smart but I don't think they're smart enough to pull enough consistent support and upgrade the local football to a level where they could be consistent threats during their early stages.

Local football and the quality of that football will be important as they are looking to scrap the U20's and focus on the reserve grade competition. The Warriors already have that network. Any other NZ team not in Auckland won't.
 
Wellington currently has no well-supported team and I don't see a Wellington NRL team being able to gain a great deal of support. I'd say the League is less well supported than both Union and even Football and that the size of the league crowds, while would be excellent if it looked likely to be the average, is only that size due to the novelty value of League in Wellington.
 
If we produce more players than Queensland then can we find some ones good enough for our NRL team? Then people might be a bit more convinced and say "hey yeah, you have a point, maybe we should set up another region with a team." Again, the point is that the supposed best of that talent pool make the Warriors. If the "best" up until now hasn't been able to do too much, why would the next layer be?
Well the Warriors only had six players in the most recent Kiwi squad. There are lots of New Zealanders playing in Australia and lots of Australians at the Warriors. Heaps of NRL teams actually come over here and sign young players. Any Wellington team would be able to spend exactly the same amount on playing staff as the Warriors or any other team in the NRL. Why would the Warriors be expected to be better when they only have the same money to dish around? If Melbourne Storm can attract players then why couldn't a Wellington team?
 
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