Pacific Nations Cup in 2013, 2014 and 2015

[BCLock]

It seems like the problems with attendance in Vancouver are more related to the BCRU-Rugby Canada issues than anything. Is there really any doubt that if Rugby Canada actually engaged the local rugby community in BC that you guys would get good crowds? Getting the local rugby community in Texas behind the Italy test last summer got us a crowd of 17k in Houston, so surely the same could happen in BC where the rugby community is much larger?

It doesn't help playing in Mickey Mouse stadiums either. USA Rugby and Rugby Canada should both be trying to hold tests in stadiums with modern facilities with capacity of 20-25k going forward. It is essential that we grow our crowds and that our national teams become money makers (the primary difference between Tier 1 and Tier 2 sides IMO) rather than money losers funded by the dues of amateur players.

Unfortunately, we only have two grass stadiums at around 20,000 and I don't think it would be in our best interest to hold all our tests at two venues. As far as less fancy stadiums go, a few CFL stadiums are bleacher-only seating with outdoor concourses, but still get great attendance. At the end of the day, the venues don't make that much of a difference, people just have to want to see the game.

Im unsure if youve played rugby on turf but I have found that its a much more fast, consistent game. I think the biggest adjust for me was using way shorter studs in my boots. As well, from what I hear bc place turf no longer gives turf burn.
If you know something I dont please let me know.

I agree with norcal over the attendance issues. None of my friends back home even knew the georgia game existed. Then when they found it was swanguard, they promptly said not interested. Swanguard is not the most up to date stadium and theres a laundry list of problems. Theres a reason why the whitecaps were very interested in moving to bcplace (please note their attendance has also increased quite a bit since the move.)

If you dont play on turf the only other sizeable grass field would be thunderbird at ubc. That stadium is an average venue but a real pain to get too. I also heard that it costs 3 times what swanguard does to rent and only gets 3-4k more people.

I don't get enough dig on turf when I ruck/scrummage. I know some like it, but the majority don't.

What is so bad about Swangard? Bleacher seating is prevalent in most of college football and that's the only complaint I can really make. As far as the Whitecaps, I think there attendance increased more because of their move to the MLS, not BC Place.

Thunderbird Stadium has been turf for quite a while now, so it's irrelevant.

I'll arrive in Vancouver on June 15, so here's hoping the Canada - Ireland match will be staged there

Sorry to say, it is scheduled to be in Toronto.

 

[WD Stu]

There's no other way to construe the PNC - under this format - as anything except an absolute joke. Canada and the USA playing what appears to be a non-capped match? Japan playing nowhere but at home? Fiji and Tonga never getting a home match? Not even when they play each other?
Assuming Samoa never rejoins (since they are now in Tier I orbit in everything but name), this thing really has to become a June to July event, with Hawaii worked in for a neutral site game, and Japan, the USA, and Canada never getting more than 3 home matches per year. Fiji, based on what I've heard, can host a game or two. Tonga can't and won't unless a real stadium and decent hotels magically sprout from the soil.
I was delighted when the news of this tourney's evolution first spread. Now, I'm underwhelmed, and I can onlu hope that the powers-that-be can get this fiasco ironed out for 2014.

 

[djwizard84]

Due to the distance and different time zones, it could not be better to set a rotation scheme? Each year one nation will host the tournament in a round robin model.
I want to be optimistic saying something like Tonga and Fiji could host the tournament together and taking advantage of the TV-broadcast and of course of the teams visiting this countries will bring some cash for them.

 

[AliC1995]

Would this competition not work better if it was split into two conferences, a Oceania and a Americas conference. For example the Oceania conference could be:
Tonga
Japan
Fiji
Samoa (Should they feel the need to rejoin)

And the Americas conference could look like:
Canada
USA
Uruguay
Argentina Jaguars

So each team plays three conference matches and then the fourth match could be inter-conference playoffs e.g. Conference winners playoff, runners-up etc. So everyone plays our matches each and the total travel will be reduced.

Another suggestion how about if each team hosted a matchday, this would mean in the conference matches every team would have one home, one away and one neutral game.

I think this format would benefit the competition as travel would be reduced, there would be more clarity as to where fixtures are held (this years tournament sees USA have one home game and Japan 3) and more team are involved.

Thoughts...

 

[Black_Magic]

Would this competition not work better if it was split into two conferences, a Oceania and a Americas conference. For example the Oceania conference could be:
Tonga
Japan
Fiji
Samoa (Should they feel the need to rejoin)

And the Americas conference could look like:
Canada
USA
Uruguay
Argentina Jaguars

Chile instead of Jaguars.

Otherwise, quite a good idea (though Uruguay is nowhere near the Pacific, so there might be a need to change the competition name ;-) ).

 

[smartcooky]

It seems crazy that Samoa are not playing in the PNC, and are instead, playing in some meaningless quadrangular tournament with South Africa, Italy and Scotland. Who the hell comes up with these hair-brained schemes anyway?

I cannot see any logical reason why The Pacific Nations Cup (Fiji, Samoa, Tonga , Japan, USA and Canada) could not not start at the same time as the Rugby Championship (mid August). There is no European or SANZAR Nations Club rugby going on at that time, so all the teams could have access to their best players. They could use the same format as the Six Nations - Rounds 1 and 2 on consecutive weekends, with one weekend off, then Round 3 followed by one weekend off, then Rounds 5 and 6 on consecutive weekends.

 

[white bear]

Russia is on Pacific Ocean

 

[psychic duck]

It seems crazy that Samoa are not playing in the PNC, and are instead, playing in some meaningless quadrangular tournament with South Africa, Italy and Scotland. Who the hell comes up with these hair-brained schemes anyway?

I cannot see any logical reason why The Pacific Nations Cup (Fiji, Samoa, Tonga , Japan, USA and Canada) could not not start at the same time as the Rugby Championship (mid August). There is no European or SANZAR Nations Club rugby going on at that time, so all the teams could have access to their best players. They could use the same format as the Six Nations - Rounds 1 and 2 on consecutive weekends, with one weekend off, then Round 3 followed by one weekend off, then Rounds 5 and 6 on consecutive weekends.

I agree with this. Perhaps not parallel the RC as the Pacific Islanders would struggle to get players playing during the start of the domestic season. But seeing as there are only 5 teams, I see no reason why they can't find 4 weekends in July and August and play it before the domestic season.

The current scheduling. Is simply to just pack in the entire competition alongside the June Internationals schedule as well.

It's the equivalent of the All Blacks playing the RC in June alongside the France matches. It is just silly, and as a result the tournament loses credibility. There is no way the whoever wins could claim to be the best in the PNC now, as all the teams will be weakened either resting players from the crazy packed schedule with 3 day turnaround and intercontinental travel, or resting players to focus on their rare opportunities against Tier 1 nations.

 

[BZHopenside]

And the Americas conference could look like:
Canada
USA
Uruguay
Argentina Jaguars

Thoughts...

What a lot of people don't really get is that just because the USA and Uruguay are both on continents called "America" doesn't mean it's convenient to get there. From the East Coast, it's quicker to get to Spain or Portugal. Additionally, you have to deal with the fact that the seasons are switched. Summer in the US and Canada is mid-winter in Argentina.

As for the competition starting in August, remember that most pro players on every team except Japan play in Europe. Mid August is pre-season for the Top 14 and the Premiership, and as we have seen in the past that European sides are very reluctant to release Tier 2 players even during the international window. Maybe Tonga, Fiji, the US, and Canada combined would have enough clout in the IRB to make it happen, but the leagues will fight them at every step.

 

[smartcooky]

What a lot of people don't really get is that just because the USA and Uruguay are both on continents called "America" doesn't mean it's convenient to get there. From the East Coast, it's quicker to get to Spain or Portugal. Additionally, you have to deal with the fact that the seasons are switched. Summer in the US and Canada is mid-winter in Argentina.

As for the competition starting in August, remember that most pro players on every team except Japan play in Europe. Mid August is pre-season for the Top 14 and the Premiership, and as we have seen in the past that European sides are very reluctant to release Tier 2 players even during the international window. Maybe Tonga, Fiji, the US, and Canada combined would have enough clout in the IRB to make it happen, but the leagues will fight them at every step.

If you hold it during the RC, that is an official iRB International window, so releases would have to be forthcoming.

Also, pre-season matches are meaningless jaunts. A player who is competing in meaningful competition is going to hit the ground running with a harder edge than one who is taking part in a few refereed pre-season training runs.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I will throw my input on this whole new "latest and greatest" tournament that we have been given the opportunity to participate in. I don't like format of this one bit and I really think this tournament is going to end up being a flop. What we need in NA is some sort of continuity to our competitions. I personally think we should be working with our brothers in CONSUR to develop our own competition. Seeing as how we have to play South American teams anyways for RWC qualification we should focus on developing a tournament with South American countries. The Americas Rugby Championship is a great platform for this and they should move it to either June or the RC timeframe and make it a four way tournament between US, Canada, Uruguay and Chile. We could also use the tournament as a way of determining qualifiers for the RWC.

Now you might be thinking this would exclude lower-ranked teams; however, playing in the Americas Rugby championship would not be guaranteed and you could have a NACRA and CONSUR division where the winners of both division would play each other with the winner playing a one off against the bottom ARC team to determine who would play in the next years ARC. I think we need to stop looking for bandaid solutions in Canada and the US and move to strengthen our existing competitions and doing our part to help develop rugby within the region.

 

[djwizard84]

I think we need to stop looking for bandaid solutions in Canada and the US and move to strengthen our existing competitions and doing our part to help develop rugby within the region.

I agree totally with you! America shouldn't be divided in to regional conferences. The national teams should play as, perhaps, in the European format with 6 teams playing a round robin system with relegation.
If we don't help us inside our own continent out there nobody will care, because they already have the level of game and the business.
We see the results in the last HK 7's, unfortunatly our 4 teams were treated bad!!! US and Canada could be out of the core teams if teams like Zimbabwe or Tonga keep playing good.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Well Canada has a half decent sevens program and now that it is an olympic sport we have lots of funding for it; however, the Americans are def in danger of being relegated this year if they don`t get their act together. I would like to see Canada, USA, Chile and Uruguay play in a tournament together. A home and away series every June between the four countries would be good for all parties involved and is far better for the region then this tournament right now. I feel its also logisitically more feasible. We need to stop letting Europeans tell us how to run our competitions and move forward ourselves. Most people outside the Rugby Canada board of directors have the same feeling I do btw.

I would also like to see Canada and the US look at forming a professional competition together. The CRC is a model that works for Canada and it needs to be further developed, a fifth team should be added that combines the EORU and QRU together to participate in it. Rugby needs to stop neglecting Canada`s second largest province as their is a significant rugby following in Montreal and the sport is growing. Btw when was the last time a test was held in Quebec? Montreal just built a fabulous new grass stadium for their Pro Footy Team called Stade Saputo and this would be a beautiful ground to hold a rugby test.

If we combined resources we could put together a half decent rugby competition and I believe this is the direction we need to head towards.

 

[LittleGuy]

Well Canada has a half decent sevens program and now that it is an olympic sport we have lots of funding for it; however, the Americans are def in danger of being relegated this year if they don`t get their act together. I would like to see Canada, USA, Chile and Uruguay play in a tournament together. A home and away series every June between the four countries would be good for all parties involved and is far better for the region then this tournament right now. I feel its also logisitically more feasible. We need to stop letting Europeans tell us how to run our competitions and move forward ourselves. Most people outside the Rugby Canada board of directors have the same feeling I do btw.

I would also like to see Canada and the US look at forming a professional competition together. The CRC is a model that works for Canada and it needs to be further developed, a fifth team should be added that combines the EORU and QRU together to participate in it. Rugby needs to stop neglecting Canada`s second largest province as their is a significant rugby following in Montreal and the sport is growing. Btw when was the last time a test was held in Quebec? Montreal just built a fabulous new grass stadium for their Pro Footy Team called Stade Saputo and this would be a beautiful ground to hold a rugby test.

If we combined resources we could put together a half decent rugby competition and I believe this is the direction we need to head towards.

I looked into this (and it's possible I may have overlooked a contest) but from what I can tell the Canadian National Rugby Union Men's XV's have NEVER played in Quebec, in a test or exhibition against a touring side.

Unbelievable, by now Montreal should have had at least the chance to host a game, while I'm not shocked Francophone Quebec hasn't hosted a game Montreal has a healthy club scene and is a perfectly fine drive from other major cities like Ottawa and Quebec City.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I looked into this (and it's possible I may have overlooked a contest) but from what I can tell the Canadian National Rugby Union Men's XV's have NEVER played in Quebec, in a test or exhibition against a touring side.

Unbelievable, by now Montreal should have had at least the chance to host a game, while I'm not shocked Francophone Quebec hasn't hosted a game Montreal has a healthy club scene and is a perfectly fine drive from other major cities like Ottawa and Quebec City.

Exactly, just shows the amount of BS that goes on in Canadian Rugby. I have played in a few rugby tournaments in Montreal and it is always a good time. Their are also a number of pretty decent clubs in Montreal (21 in the greater Montreal Area) and the level of play is very good. Some of the university teams are not bad either. McGill is decent and Concordia has beaten a few of the lower ranked OUA teams.

It is not like the sport doesn't have some following either, a lot of the pubs on crescent st show the 6 nations and other major tournaments and I even found a bunch of international and pro jerseys and apparel being sold at some sports stores downtown.

 

[djwizard84]

Well Canada has a half decent sevens program and now that it is an olympic sport we have lots of funding for it; however, the Americans are def in danger of being relegated this year if they don`t get their act together. I would like to see Canada, USA, Chile and Uruguay play in a tournament together. A home and away series every June between the four countries would be good for all parties involved and is far better for the region then this tournament right now. I feel its also logisitically more feasible. We need to stop letting Europeans tell us how to run our competitions and move forward ourselves. Most people outside the Rugby Canada board of directors have the same feeling I do btw.

Thats totally true, America has to come all together and start to do something for our own continent. I don't get why we have to be splited in two Conference. If we put all together and start to give regular game to all countries we can develope in less than the can imagine.

 

[psychic duck]

Rugby needs to stop neglecting Canada`s second largest province as their is a significant rugby following in Montreal and the sport is growing. Btw when was the last time a test was held in Quebec? Montreal just built a fabulous new grass stadium for their Pro Footy Team called Stade Saputo and this would be a beautiful ground to hold a rugby test.

Whilst I agree that Canada Rugby's neglect of trying to bring the game to Quebec is very poor. But if they have a significant rugby following in Montreal then how come I can't think of any Canadian notable French Canadian players. No clubs there?.

Still though, this is something Canada Rugby should be trying to rectify.

 

[LittleGuy]

Whilst I agree that Canada Rugby's neglect of trying to bring the game to Quebec is very poor. But if they have a significant rugby following in Montreal then how come I can't think of any Canadian notable French Canadian players. No clubs there?.

Still though, this is something Canada Rugby should be trying to rectify.

Montreal does have a decent club scene but it is mostly in the English speaking community, Montreal still has significant Anglo-Irish(and others) communities that use English as a first language while in the rest of Quebec much of the English speaking population has left due to the constant cultural fights(there are limited populations of Anglophones in the Eastern Townships and in Western Quebec...like Pontiac for example). The game isn't very popular in the Francophone community and part of the reason is the cultural divide thats gone on for years, Gridiron and Ice Hockey are also very popular in Quebec.

The only French Canadian player I can think of in Canadian rugby was Paul LeBlanc (Prop) who was from Sept-Iles, he played four tests for Canada in the mid 90's(including one against France). After that it's rare to see players from Quebec and they are almost inevitably from the English speaking community in Montreal. I could be missing someone and stand to be corrected but I've researched this before and I believe LeBlanc was the only Francophone player to see national team duty.

http://www.espnscrum.com/other/rugby/player/11923.html

 

[LittleGuy]

For anyone on the "Bru", I'm running a pool there for this tournament, it is named for the reason this year's schedule is so messed up. So search for" IRB's Liquor Cabinet". Pool code: auratier

 

[psychic duck]

Further bad news for the PNC, it is announced that Rugby Canada are streaming the match. In fairness they can't get much worse than last year's effort, not sure this game will be worth watching considering both team's lineups are completely experimental. Should be a close game but will have little indication as to which side is better, just will give an indication of which side has better depth.