Pro12 looking to expand to the East coast of North America (New York)

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...-franchise-in-the-united-states-in-attempt-t/

I mean WTF?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Very far fetched in my opinion. The obvious comparison is Super Rugby's expansion but Argentina and even Japan were safer bets in terms of spectator numbers and quality of rugby than the US.

It's all faintly desperate and has no credibility when it comes from a guy who refuses to even mention the Italian clubs, a country whose potential rugby viewership would completely dwarf the Celtic nations but who is being made to feel like an unwelcome guest in the Pro12. I thought the Pro 12 was a really good competition last season and with Treviso and Zebre signing a few Italian internationals back they might be more competitive this season.

If expansion is what they are looking at they should consider the viability of some of the better teams / nations in the European Challenge Cup qualifiers first. For example, was the Valladolid based domestic final in Spain getting 25,000 spectators some kind of fluke or is there real potential there? Are there any signs of increased attendances and quality of rugby among the south west German clubs? Existing clubs like the Scottish and Italian ones only bring in crowds of 3000-7000 (in part due to stadium issues) so the bar is pretty low. Rugby League's into Catalonia seems to have been largely successful.

 

[Osezno]

Browne also talked about Spain, Germany and Netherlands, but media have been more interested on that potential USA expansion.

 

[welshglory]

Going international might be the only way to at least remain semi financially competitive with the English and French in the future.
Whatever they do they need to go about it completely differently than they have with the Italian sides. It's been a disaster and a bit of disgrace to be honest, they should look at improving the situation there.
If (big if) they could somehow create proper viable "super" franchises in Europe and America it could be just about crazy enough to work.

I think Andrew Hore's Super Rugby idea is also something they should consider
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...alls-for-Pro12-and-Welsh-teams-in-Super-Rugby

 

[Peat]

If they can get this to work, they should go for it. There is no better potential TV market for them. There's a lot of concerns about quality to be addressed but I see no reason why a US franchise couldn't make it work and expansion to somewhere with better TV markets has to happen sooner or later.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Going international might be the only way to at least remain semi financially competitive with the English and French in the future.
Whatever they do they need to go about it completely differently than they have with the Italian sides. It's been a disaster and a bit of disgrace to be honest, they should look at improving the situation there.
If (big if) they could somehow create proper viable "super" franchises in Europe and America it could be just about crazy enough to work.

I think Andrew Hore's Super Rugby idea is also something they should consider
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...alls-for-Pro12-and-Welsh-teams-in-Super-Rugby

Hore's idea is even more far fetched IMO.

 

[welshglory]

Hore's idea is even more far fetched IMO.

Yeah it's pretty mental hahaha. Although you would likely see an immediate increase in TV money, whilst other options would be more gradual.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeah it's pretty mental hahaha. Although you would likely see an immediate increase in TV money, whilst other options would be more gradual.

TBh i don't see SH being that bothered about Welsh teams. Yeh TV sales will go up in Wales but can't see it making it go up in say Aus.

Could Pro 12 maybe lure Biarritz into fully becoming a spainish team?


What would be interesting is giving developing rugby country in the EU/NA a team (Bigger pop countries 2 teams)
So say countries from Tier 2 and Tier 3 Development 1
- Georgia (Tbilisi)
- Romania (București)
- Portugual (Lisbon)
- Spain (Barca and Madrid)
- USA (Boston and New York)
- Canada (Toronto and Montreal)
- Russia (Moscow)
- Germany (Hannover)
- Belguim (Brussels)

How many of them would bring actual benefits to 1 the league and 2 to their own country? I mean Italy havn't exactly benefited much from it IMO and have they added more dough to the league.

Financially only USA and maybe Georgia and Russia could bring in enough cash to make it worth while IMO.

 

[Osezno]

What would be interesting is giving developing rugby country in the EU/NA a team (Bigger pop countries 2 teams)
So say countries from Tier 2 and Tier 3 Development 1
- Georgia (Tbilisi)
- Romania (București)
- Portugual (Lisbon)
- Spain (Barca and Madrid)
- USA (Boston and New York)
- Canada (Toronto and Montreal)
- Russia (Moscow)
- Germany (Hannover)
- Belguim (Brussels)

How many of them would bring actual benefits to 1 the league and 2 to their own country? I mean Italy havn't exactly benefited much from it IMO and have they added more dough to the league.

Financially only USA and maybe Georgia and Russia could bring in enough cash to make it worth while IMO.

Russia and Romania wouldn't be interested as they already have their fully professional championships. But there is a World Rugby and Rugby Europe project in the making involving national franchises from many of those countries and EPCR intends to give a proper identity to Challenge Cup Qualifying Competition.

 

[welshglory]

To be viable they would have to go about it in a completely different manner than they have with Italy which was just a half arsed last minute put together and to be honest it wasn't really an expansion at all, it was more of an absorption. If they were serious about expansion and did the required planning and prep work it could be beneficial in the long run, by that i mean pathways for players, academy structure, professionalism of the team (unlike the Italians who have a couple of blokes and a computer as their sports science department), foreign players to be competitive, private ownership, marketing etc...

 

[welshglory]

Russia and Romania wouldn't be interested as they already have their fully professional championships. But there is a World Rugby and Rugby Europe project in the making involving national franchises from many of those countries and EPCR intends to give a proper identity to Challenge Cup Qualifying Competition.

I've heard of this as well. If it goes ahead i'm fascinated in what the structures of the team's would be.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

It could possibly work if the Pro 12 radically changes format. In come an east coast American, eastern Canadian, one Georgian and one Romanian. Create a format where a team plays no more than 16 games regular season games which would reduce squad sizes and help with costs.

I can't imagine playing teams/regions/provinces from Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Italy would be attractive to the average American sports fan and broadcasters though. What could make it more attractive to them is playing in European international rugby's tournaments.

The IRFU, WRU, FIR and SRU need money to fund their clubs/regions/provinces. If the Eagles play on the East coast, their home games could be broadcast to the key European markets at 8pm on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday (3pm EST) opening up a new broadcast slot. More TV slots means a bigger broadcast deal in Europe on top of a new broadcast deal in the USA. The increased money that could bring would help bridge the funding gap between the Union run teams and LNR/PRLs clubs. To achieve this, there would need to be a trap door opened between the 6 Nations and European Nations Cup. Perhaps an amalgamation between the top tournament and Georgia, Romania, Canada and the USA.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Could see an Irish team drawing a good crowd in the right area of america.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

To be viable they would have to go about it in a completely different manner than they have with Italy which was just a half arsed last minute put together and to be honest it wasn't really an expansion at all, it was more of an absorption. If they were serious about expansion and did the required planning and prep work it could be beneficial in the long run, by that i mean pathways for players, academy structure, professionalism of the team (unlike the Italians who have a couple of blokes and a computer as their sports science department), foreign players to be competitive, private ownership, marketing etc...

Totally agree. No point going into it half baked and need to make short term sacrifice to help any new club be competitive (so not like with Italy who are made to pay big contributions despite having the weakest clubs). In return you have to help the new organisation get the necessary structures in place. If they can't do that, you exclude them.

As for any Pro12 / Super Rugby merger, both are looking for extra TV revenue from emerging nations, both organisations appear willing to include clubs miles away from their home territories and both are entering a period of restructuring / losing out to England & France. So there could be potential for some kind of global competition, as far fetched as that sounds. Hard to see what Super Rugby would get out of that though other than possibly helping to make more fixtures in the similar time zones (e.g. SA and Europe).

 

[welshglory]

Yes bizarrely enough Italy's "participation fee" was more than the individual TV right's of Ireland and Scotland.

Super Rugby get's a large chunk of their central income from European/British TV rights. So as you say with more NH and South African content and in the correct time zone it could make it more valuable for those broadcasters.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

But there is a World Rugby and Rugby Europe project in the making involving national franchises from many of those countries and EPCR intends to give a proper identity to Challenge Cup Qualifying Competition.

Sorry, are there any articles in relation to this or an indication of what countries might show an interest? Italy have made noises about the Pro 12 not offering good value and I'm worried they might look for an alternative.

 

[Osezno]

No, there is little published about it and it's probably still in its early steps. But I don't think Italy would dump two professional franchises in Pro 12 for a today non existent league where it could help potential rival nations (Germany, Spain) to increase their level. Particularly after Eccellenza clubs were so awful in last Challenge Cup Qualifying Competition.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Thanks. You'd like to think so but a year or two back Italy were considering reverting to their own domestic league. They are fed up of having to pay so much to the Pro 12. I've no idea what O'Shea's thoughts on the matter are though.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Head of US Rugby sounds he is baffled by the suggestion but is too polite to say it. Boston and New York presumably have the largest Irish populations in the US but both are absolutely baltic during large chunks of the Pro-12 season (if the NFL coverage of December to February is anything to go by). Utterly unplayable for rugby.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby...nterested-in-joining-guinness-pro12-1-4188930

 

[profitius]

Head of US Rugby sounds he is baffled by the suggestion but is too polite to say it. Boston and New York presumably have the largest Irish populations in the US but both are absolutely baltic during large chunks of the Pro-12 season (if the NFL coverage of December to February is anything to go by). Utterly unplayable for rugby.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby...nterested-in-joining-guinness-pro12-1-4188930

That's a major problem. They would need an indoor stadium or to play all their matches around that time away from home.

If theyre looking to interest Irish Americans, Savannah Georgia is a place they could look at.