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Pumas and Islanders to join 3N in 2008

R

Ripper

Guest
They could improve.

The gap wasn't as large before the game went professional.
Samoa has shown they can shock good rugby teams. With them included, it could build them to do that on a consistent basis.
Look at Italy, a team who would get spanked down here, they've shown great improvement. Samoa and Fiji could do even better with all the talent we see in NZ.

The IRB rankings also show this. Samoa and Fiji round off the top 12 nations. 6 from North, and 6 from the South.

Or is NZ scared they'd lose the island talent to their respective countries?
[/b]
The IRB Rankings don't mean ****, and all that talent you see is usually talent that arrived in the country before they learnt to walk and only became what they did because they thier entire Rugby Life was spent being developed by the NZ system.

As well as that the schedule is crowded enough as it is, and playing two games in the Islands is hardly going to be a cash cow, from a finanical perspective, as well as an on the field perspective it doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Prestwick
Its all about having the clout to fight fire with fire. Also, having allot of money helps too and the cash Argentina would get from the Five Nations would help the ARU pry some Argentinian talent away from the clubs if only for a couple of matches in exchange for hard roubles.
What a brillant system - Argentina finally make it to the big time and get a windfall to invest into the local game to make themselves stronger, but instead they have to spend it on paying clubs so they can field a full strength team of their own players... what a brillant system, really makes you wonder why the NZRFU is so anti players going overseas.
 
W

Wellycane

Guest
I love the sound of this, global rugby is finally binding closer and closer together, especially for the Pacific Islands...they need to keep their players protected from...well you who. So......do we think it's possible for the islanders to have a home game? They certainly don't have the stadiums in their backyard and gosh it will be far too hot playing out there. Or perhaps New Zealand could be their home game? Probably in Auckland...maybe
 
R

Ripper

Guest
I love the sound of this, global rugby is finally binding closer and closer together, especially for the Pacific Islands...they need to keep their players protected from...well you who. So......do we think it's possible for the islanders to have a home game? They certainly don't have the stadiums in their backyard and gosh it will be far too hot playing out there. Or perhaps New Zealand could be their home game? Probably in Auckland...maybe
[/b]
Ericsonn Stadium could be a possibilty, or maybe Harbour, possibly Westpac.

Although the more I think about it, the more I think that IF this is true, it will only be Argentina joining.
 
M

mimic

Guest
The IRB Rankings don't mean ****, and all that talent you see is usually talent that arrived in the country before they learnt to walk and only became what they did because they thier entire Rugby Life was spent being developed by the NZ system.

As well as that the schedule is crowded enough as it is, and playing two games in the Islands is hardly going to be a cash cow, from a finanical perspective, as well as an on the field perspective it doesn't make sense.
[/b]

I know they learnt their rugby skills in NZ, but the fact is they're still available to play for Samoa/Fiji/Tonga.
Samoa would probably play their games in NZ, as they have a lot more fans, although it would be good to see the big nations play in the islands. If advertised well, some people could go on a lovely holiday to the islands AND watch some good rugby :p
It would help the islands a lot :D

But I guess one step at a time. I should be thankful the Pacific Islands team is invited in the first place :D
 
N

nik

Guest
firstly, if there is such a tournament planned (tri-nations plus arigies and PI) then Argentina and PI should field their top teams. there should be no euro club issues.

secondly, the pacific 6 nations should also continue. this tournament consists of junior ABs, australia A, fiji, samoa, tonga and japan. this must continue because the PI team in the expanded tri-nations will not help develop the 3 PI nations.

canada and usa are also covered in the churchill cup.

its only argentina that does not belong in an annual tournament.
 
R

Rugby_Cymru

Guest
From what I can see this one rumour stems from just one Argentinian reporter.
Still does't sound too official as of yet.
 
W

Wellycane

Guest
firstly, if there is such a tournament planned (tri-nations plus arigies and PI) then Argentina and PI should field their top teams. there should be no euro club issues.

secondly, the pacific 6 nations should also continue. this tournament consists of junior ABs, australia A, fiji, samoa, tonga and japan. this must continue because the PI team in the expanded tri-nations will not help develop the 3 PI nations.

canada and usa are also covered in the churchill cup.

its only argentina that does not belong in an annual tournament.
[/b]

Yes I agree with your first point. Argentinians should certainly be allowed to be released to play for their own country for this is the highest level of professional rugby.
I also agree with your second point. It creates such a headache, but I think the Islanders should still be able to play in expanded tri-nations because it consists the best players from 3 strong rugby nations. Possibly the pacific 6 nations could be postponed after the 5 nations? possibly?
 
M

mimic

Guest
nah.. Keep the pacific 6 nations going on at the same time.. that way if we have injuries in the pacific island team, we can pick from those in good form in the pacific 6

this will help with the all blacks also.. to have the junior abs playing.. with Australia a joining, they should benefit too
 
P

Prestwick

Guest
Originally posted by Prestwick
Its all about having the clout to fight fire with fire. Also, having allot of money helps too and the cash Argentina would get from the Five Nations would help the ARU pry some Argentinian talent away from the clubs if only for a couple of matches in exchange for hard roubles.
What a brillant system - Argentina finally make it to the big time and get a windfall to invest into the local game to make themselves stronger, but instead they have to spend it on paying clubs so they can field a full strength team of their own players... what a brillant system, really makes you wonder why the NZRFU is so anti players going overseas.
[/b]

Oi! Don't act so surprised! This is how professionalism works! Players follow where the money is and the clubs tend to be private limited companies who only believe in cold hard cash in order to release players (or a clean schedule where internationals and club fixtures don't clash). You guys knew exactly what was going to happen when you signed up for professionalism back in the mid 1990s and you knew exactly what you were getting into so sadly, this is how it is going to work.

Unless you have a better idea for Argentina to release its players...hmm? ;)
 
E

esoj

Guest
the IRB should actually get some balls and declare it an offical international window forcing clubs to release players. if clubs do not the irb should sanction them in some way maybe via funding to that countries club or something.

there is no way fiji samoa etc should play seperately in the 5 nations. they would be smashed every week and it doesn't do them or aus sa and nz any good either. it was only a few years back in 2005 that the all blacks smashed fiji 91-0 now imagine similar scorelines happening every week for about 5 weeks or so.

new zealand etc don't tour the islands that much because they have to pay for everything when they go over there because the island nations simply cannot afford it. when they play in nz etc I believe the gate from matches is shared with the island nations getting a rather generous share too. so it actually benefits the island nations more coming to places like nz than the reverse.

As I recall, in 2004 when PI played Australia Sione Lauaki was playing (as was Sitiveni Sivivatu) and now they are All Blacks. What's more if it was granted by the ARU Radike Samo (now playing for Stade Francais) could have played for them as well.

I think this is because it was an invitational/representative side. Interestingly though, it was still seen as a Test match.
[/b]
just like the lions games are viewed as test matches. think of the Pacfic Islanders team as the southern hemisphere version of the Lions.

this could be great for rugby in the southern hemisphere if it actually goes through
 
W

wygy

Guest
I hope the article is true aswell, I'm sure if there were to be a petition of some sort, every member on this board and every rugby fan would support the inclusion of both those nations into the tournament, it could then be circulated online and sent to the IRB and Sanzar, excuse the delusions here but there is an oppurtunity for fans to show the power they have... :victory:
 
R

robinweide

Guest
yeahhh
that would be awesome :D
they should think of some new names though....
  • 6 nations NH
  • 5 nations SH
maybe north and south nations :D
 
P

PeeJay

Guest
This new five nations will put even more pressure on the European clubs to agree on things like scheduling, especially with a very insistent SANZARAPI (as I guess it would be called) asking for their players back by June.
[/b]
South
Africa
New
Zealand
Australia
Rugby
Argentina
Pacific
Islands?

I'd be more inclined to go:
South
Africa
New
Zealand
Australia
Pacific
Islands
Argentina
Rugby

just a dumb question, how many international tournaments does football(soccer) have?
[/b]
I make that a grand total of fifteen, and I'm sure there are others.
 
R

Rugby_Cymru

Guest
As I said:
There's a European cup and a World Cup in football.

There may well be more...
 
R

Ripper

Guest
According to the Dominion Post :

The New Zealand Rugby Unon said that was not correct, but it did confirm expansion was beig investigated.

NZRU chief executive Chris Moller said yesterday the inclusion of Argentina in a 4 Nations tournament was discussed at the International Rugby Board meeting in Auckland last month.

Chairman Jock Hobbs then raised it with Sanzar, which agreed to employ a consultant to look into the feasibility of the Pumas playing in a Four Nations Tournament[/b]

Blah Blah Blah

Than at the end of the article (Thomas = IRB Spokeman)

Thomas said there were no plans to push for the Pacific Islanders to be included in an expanded Tri Nations[/b]

Theres more in the article but the only other thing of interest is the South African RU President aying Argentina had to be included.
 
P

Prestwick

Guest
Interesting, SANZAR do have a right to be annoyed and deliberately slow, considering they've been waiting for Argentina to get its house in order for ages only then suddenly decide by the looks of it to invite itself into the Tri Nations.

I guess we shall have to wait a little longer, it'll be worth it though!

Personally, something like COMINTERN (Communist International) or COMINFORM or maybe even the WARSAW PACT would be more apt than SANZAR.
 

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