Razor blacks

[40/20]

Thoughts on whether Beaudy will make Robertson's team next year when he returns after his Japanese stint?

Not expecting him to last till the next WC, but do we think he'd be in the mix for next year at least?

I know Jordan is a fan favourite for the 15 jersey and Robertson obviously has history with him there, but given how skinny we are at 10, will that be enough to keep Beaudy in the mix?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Thoughts on whether Beaudy will make Robertson's team next year when he returns after his Japanese stint?

Not expecting him to last till the next WC, but do we think he'd be in the mix for next year at least?

I know Jordan is a fan favourite for the 15 jersey and Robertson obviously has history with him there, but given how skinny we are at 10, will that be enough to keep Beaudy in the mix?

im not a fan in general of signing him up until the next RWC when he'll be 36, thats pretty old for an outside back and i think he's been struggling for his best for for a while

signing him up year to year or maybe a two year contract...but i think its really a risk of stopping the AB's from fully committing to a replacement

 

[40/20]

im not a fan in general of signing him up until the next RWC when he'll be 36, thats pretty old for an outside back and i think he's been struggling for his best for for a while

signing him up year to year or maybe a two year contract...but i think its really a risk of stopping the AB's from fully committing to a replacement

Yea agree; I cant see him playing well enough in '27 to warrant a WC spot at 36yrs old. I know Sexton was 38 at this year's event but you could argue maybe that was a year too long, and even if it wasn't, his value was built around game management.

But what got me thinking was my presumption that the AB coach is part of discussions when renewing test player contracts.

I dunno if that's accurate or not, I just always thought that before NZR forked out big money to retain a test player, especially one at the back end of their career, they'd talk to the coach to see if the player was in their plans.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Yea agree; I cant see him playing well enough in '27 to warrant a WC spot at 36yrs old. I know Sexton was 38 at this year's event but you could argue maybe that was a year too long, and even if it wasn't, his value was built around game management.

But what got me thinking was my presumption that the AB coach is part of discussions when renewing test player contracts.

I dunno if that's accurate or not, I just always thought that before NZR forked out big money to retain a test player, especially one at the back end of their career, they'd talk to the coach to see if the player was in their plans.

you would hope they do, otherwise we risk being in a situation where a coach is obliged to play someone they dont want to just because theyre contracted or we're paying someone thats never playing which is just bad business

 

[40/20]

you would hope they do, otherwise we risk being in a situation where a coach is obliged to play someone they dont want to just because theyre contracted or we're paying someone thats never playing which is just bad business

Yep agreed.

But if that's the case, and if Barrett does indeed sign a new 4yr deal, then that implies Robertson is supportive of the idea. That's the part that surprises me a wee bit.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Yep agreed.

But if that's the case, and if Barrett does indeed sign a new 4yr deal, then that implies Robertson is supportive of the idea. That's the part that surprises me a wee bit.

has he actually taken over? did his contract start straight after the final? wonder if there is a chance we're still in between and NZR are just contracting a big name

 

[40/20]

has he actually taken over? did his contract start straight after the final? wonder if there is a chance we're still in between and NZR are just contracting a big name

Do you mean Robertson? Yep he's officially on deck, as of 1-Nov.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

ok, then yeah, i assume he still sees some value in BB....im a little worried if thats the direction he sees for the next 4 years

also thought we might have seen a press conference when he officially took over, maybe i missed it?

 

[40/20]

ok, then yeah, i assume he still sees some value in BB....im a little worried if thats the direction he sees for the next 4 years

also thought we might have seen a press conference when he officially took over, maybe i missed it?

No I never saw one either. Saw a number of stories that commented on his first official day as that coincided with the ABs touching down in Auckland after the WC. But haven't seen any public comments from the man himself, let alone a presser.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I guess experienced players provide value to more than just the all blacks.

Plus beating england next year is probably a high priority

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I guess experienced players provide value to more than just the all blacks.

Plus beating england next year is probably a high priority

i want to ban the use of the word experience...experience at being what?...bang average for the last several years with the odd exceptional game...its got into the psyche...experience experience experience

players continuously getting picked even when playing poorly...and then continuously getting picked because they were picked before and so now have "experience" is a bight on the game...form comes first, experience or potential can be used as a tie breaker

 

[Umaga's Witness]

i want to ban the use of the word experience...experience at being what?...bang average for the last several years with the odd exceptional game...its got into the psyche...experience experience experience

players continuously getting picked even when playing poorly...and then continuously getting picked because they were picked before and so now have "experience" is a bight on the game...form comes first, experience or potential can be used as a tie breaker

some players play as if they're experienced right from the start too

 

[40/20]

i want to ban the use of the word experience...experience at being what?...bang average for the last several years with the odd exceptional game...its got into the psyche...experience experience experience

players continuously getting picked even when playing poorly...and then continuously getting picked because they were picked before and so now have "experience" is a bight on the game...form comes first, experience or potential can be used as a tie breaker

I've got a slightly different view on this one…

In a sporting context, I think of experience as more than just playing a lot of games, but someone who's been through difficult situations and critically, shown they've learnt how to overcome them. IMO, that sort of experience is worth prioritising over form in certain circumstances.

Especially if it's a key player where the benefit of that experience isn't limited to how the individual performs, but also how they may influence others around them.

But only to a point. Obviously at some stage you have to make a call and pull the plug. And yea Foster and his team probably got a few wrong over the years, but its a helluva juggling act.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I've got a slightly different view on this one…

In a sporting context, I think of experience as more than just playing a lot of games, but someone who's been through difficult situations and critically, shown they've learnt how to overcome them. IMO, that sort of experience is worth prioritising over form in certain circumstances.

Especially if it's a key player where the benefit of that experience isn't limited to how the individual performs, but also how they may influence others around them.

But only to a point. Obviously at some stage you have to make a call and pull the plug. And yea Foster and his team probably got a few wrong over the years, but its a helluva juggling act.

definitely, and i think thats what it use to mean but for years now its been used to keep picking people on reputation or potential to the point it means nothing now

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Who do you think will be in the engine room now Brodie and Sam have retired? Scott B? And who else?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Who do you think will be in the engine room now Brodie and Sam have retired? Scott B? And who else?

Tough to say with a new coach.

I think foster let the other selectors, eg Jason Ryan influence selections a lot but im not sure how much or to what extent razor will.

For example Josh lord was picked, without much super rugby experience, under foster both before and after Ryan. So it's hard to say whether Ryan likes him or if that was just a foster selection.

It also depends on to what extent razor will take the opportunity to build a new squad for the World Cup rather than play experienced players who probably will be too old by the World Cup. As indicated earlier in this thread, I think he is likely to do the former at leas to some extent, which would count against tuipolotu.

It also depends on the balance if the team, so it's pretty hard to guess unless you guess the whole team. They'll want enough lineout threats, enough hard workers, enough enforcers in defence, and enough hard yard makers.

Both whitelock and retallick were tall and good lineout players. Haven't checked everyone, but of those Checked The only players as tall or taller going around at the moment are paripari Parkinson, Fabian holland, Sam Darry (at 2.07 is taller than both of them). Lord is close though

If you take a look at the crusaders during razors tenure, they always have at least one strong lineout option in the loose forwards. So that might mean it's less important to just choose locks who are your best lineout forwards.

There are a lot of players who I wouldn't be surprised if they were picked.
Those mentioned above, plus
Gallagher
Strange
Dunshea
Ah kuoi
Walker leaware
Selby rickitt
Delany
Suafoa
Sangster

If I had to put money on it, I'd say vaai starts alongside scooter. At least one of Darry and lord would then also be in the squad, I predict Darry ahead of lord if only one makes it. Then Gallagher, probably ahead of lord if Darry makes it. ah kuoi, suafoa, would be there or thereabouts depending on the make up of the back 5 of the scrum, including what positions suafoa and ah kuoi themselves might be considered for. Ah kuoi and suafoa are the same weight and height but very different strengths - ah kuoi has a big engine, suafoa is good at making the hard yards. Both are your lock - blindside hybrid type player.

Personally I like the idea of walker-leaware as a bench option. doesn't have the fitness or lineout prowess to start, but he gets a lot of turnovers and has a strong carry and tackle.

 

[40/20]

Tough to say with a new coach.

I think foster let the other selectors, eg Jason Ryan influence selections a lot but im not sure how much or to what extent razor will.

For example Josh lord was picked, without much super rugby experience, under foster both before and after Ryan. So it's hard to say whether Ryan likes him or if that was just a foster selection.

It also depends on to what extent razor will take the opportunity to build a new squad for the World Cup rather than play experienced players who probably will be too old by the World Cup. As indicated earlier in this thread, I think he is likely to do the former at leas to some extent, which would count against tuipolotu.

It also depends on the balance if the team, so it's pretty hard to guess unless you guess the whole team. They'll want enough lineout threats, enough hard workers, enough enforcers in defence, and enough hard yard makers.

Both whitelock and retallick were tall and good lineout players. Haven't checked everyone, but of those Checked The only players as tall or taller going around at the moment are paripari Parkinson, Fabian holland, Sam Darry (at 2.07 is taller than both of them). Lord is close though

If you take a look at the crusaders during razors tenure, they always have at least one strong lineout option in the loose forwards. So that might mean it's less important to just choose locks who are your best lineout forwards.

There are a lot of players who I wouldn't be surprised if they were picked.
Those mentioned above, plus
Gallagher
Strange
Dunshea
Ah kuoi
Walker leaware
Selby rickitt
Delany
Suafoa
Sangster

If I had to put money on it, I'd say vaai starts alongside scooter. At least one of Darry and lord would then also be in the squad, I predict Darry ahead of lord if only one makes it. Then Gallagher, probably ahead of lord if Darry makes it. ah kuoi, suafoa, would be there or thereabouts depending on the make up of the back 5 of the scrum, including what positions suafoa and ah kuoi themselves might be considered for. Ah kuoi and suafoa are the same weight and height but very different strengths - ah kuoi has a big engine, suafoa is good at making the hard yards. Both are your lock - blindside hybrid type player.

Personally I like the idea of walker-leaware as a bench option. doesn't have the fitness or lineout prowess to start, but he gets a lot of turnovers and has a strong carry and tackle.

Nice summary

Agree Vaa'i should have inside running for Scott's partner. Ryan obviously likes him and I'd be surprised if Robertson gives Ryan's views any less weighting than Foster did given their history, and particularly amongst the tight five.

But that could change if Vaa'i regresses during SR, or a smoky emerges to shoot the lights out like Brodie himself did back in '12. Lots to unfold over SR, especially with so many new coaches. Really interested to see what Cotter and Feek can do with the Blues pack.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Nice summary

Agree Vaa'i should have inside running for Scott's partner. Ryan obviously likes him and I'd be surprised if Robertson gives Ryan's views any less weighting than Foster did given their history, and particularly amongst the tight five.

But that could change if Vaa'i regresses during SR, or a smoky emerges to shoot the lights out like Brodie himself did back in '12. Lots to unfold over SR, especially with so many new coaches. Really interested to see what Cotter and Feek can do with the Blues pack.

I think it's hard to go past vaai at the moment for any selector. He's just a strong all round player.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I'm quite interested in how the all blacks coaches work with super rugby coaches to develop players - the crusaders have always benefitted from their academies, making young players ready for super rugby. So I wonder if the all blacks coaches will do anything to ensure the super rugby teams are adequate academies for preparing players for tests.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i really hope that they havent dont much other than identify a long list, narrow it after super rugby, i always felt a lot of fozzies problems came out of predetermining lots of players and ignoring form

kind of by im pretty unsure about signing BB up for another 4 years, he's going to miss most of the super season and yet he is back to odds on starter for the ABs