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Rule Change for last 5 mins of matches

westy246

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I am often frustrated during the last 5 minutes of a match when, instead of exciting rugby, we have a turgid slow down as the team that is leading goes into "slow mode" in terms of setting scrums and lineouts. I watched a game recently where a scrum was awarded with 3 minutes to go. However, it took two and half minutes to set and then reset the scrum and, what should have been a grandstand finish, was a damp squib!

I would propose that a hooter goes when there 5 minutes of play left. After this point, the referee will stop the clock when he rules a scrum, a lineout, or a penalty. He will then restart the clock when the the scrum or lineout is set - or when the kicker is ready to take a kick.

I believe that this would provide fans with the potential of more exciting finishes to games and stop the game fizzling out in the last 3 or 4 minutes.
 

living sacrifice

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I am often frustrated during the last 5 minutes of a match when, instead of exciting rugby, we have a turgid slow down as the team that is leading goes into "slow mode" in terms of setting scrums and lineouts. I watched a game recently where a scrum was awarded with 3 minutes to go. However, it took two and half minutes to set and then reset the scrum and, what should have been a grandstand finish, was a damp squib!

I would propose that a hooter goes when there 5 minutes of play left. After this point, the referee will stop the clock when he rules a scrum, a lineout, or a penalty. He will then restart the clock when the the scrum or lineout is set - or when the kicker is ready to take a kick.

I believe that this would provide fans with the potential of more exciting finishes to games and stop the game fizzling out in the last 3 or 4 minutes.
Surely that will just prolong the 'boring slow' rugby though? If you stop the clock for the line out/ scrum etc you'll just see more pointless phase play when they try and retain possession.

I understand what you want but I think that after seeing quite a few teams win in the last few minutes your argument doesn't really stand.
 

westy246

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... I agree it is not possible to stop endless pick and drive plays - but at least the defending team can compete for the ball. When you see a line out awarded with one team lined up ready to go and the other taking a minute to get there, it is extremely frustrating. similarly at scrum time. Just because you can't solve all of the issues - doesn't mean that you shouldn't resolve some.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Get referees to start enforcing the "use it or lose it" rule again.
The amount of times they tell players to use it, and then they faff around positioning the ball, setting up the pass etc. Wasn't the initial ruling that you have to use it within 5 seconds? In the latter stages it's taking about 30 before the ball's gone.
 

KeyboardWorrier

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I can't say I've seen players muck about for more than 5 seconds after a 'use it or lose it' call. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I can't say I've seen it this RWC.
 

j'nuh

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I don't think the lineout needs to change. The problem is spoiling of the scrum eating up the last minutes, not setting it up, and the lineout rarely gets spoiled. If the winning team kicks for a lineout, at least the losing team gets possession. If the losing team kicks for the lineout, then they deserve to be punished for being daft.

But I really like the suggestion for the scrum. An alternative could also be to replace scrums with tap-and-goes for the last five minutes.

Surely that will just prolong the 'boring slow' rugby though? If you stop the clock for the line out/ scrum etc you'll just see more pointless phase play when they try and retain possession.

I understand what you want but I think that after seeing quite a few teams win in the last few minutes your argument doesn't really stand.
But the team defending the lead has to do this for a lot longer now. Rather than 2 of the last 3 minutes being eaten up by a scrum, they will have to grind out the win for 3 minutes, giving the losing team a much higher chance of regaining possession.
 

AzaMatt

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id rather throughout the whole game when a scrum is called, time is off untill scrum is set and ready to go, clock starts when scrum half feeds. sure games would be longer but then the winning team couldnt do-dally around to waste time. i would like to see players diciplined for not allowing opposing team take quick taps by not giving them the ball. perhaps move the penalty forward a few metres, i know this happens on some fouls but dont think ive seen a ref do it for defending team not giving the ball back. the only offence i remember is when a player deliberately kicked the ball away after they conceeded a pen. but all to often the scrum half (admittidly part of their charm) hold onto the ball, or keep it between their legs or some silly attempt to stop the attacking team immediately going. even if they just enforce this for the last 5 mins that would be a start
 

TRF_Olyy

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I can't say I've seen players muck about for more than 5 seconds after a 'use it or lose it' call. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I can't say I've seen it this RWC.
They don't usually muck around THAT much, but it's more that the call comes way after 5s, and then you add the few extra s on.
It's just a rule, kind of like when they said they were cracking down on feeding at the scrum at about the same time, that hasn't really led to anything.
 

Amiga500

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id rather throughout the whole game when a scrum is called, time is off untill scrum is set and ready to go, clock starts when scrum half feeds.
Even better - clock restarts when the ball comes out of the scrum and back into open play.
 

Tony Manx

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Even better, leave the game alone and accept bad decisions happen! Joubert's error is one of many arguable calls during the match which may or may not have been as wrong! It happens!
 

TheOvalBall

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This pick and go to run out the clock is ridiculous. It's so negative. And a complete detriment to the game.
 

TJAY

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How about you give each captain 2 TMO calls each game.

I would think most captains would keep their 2 TMO calls until near the end and use them like a time out to stop the clock.
 

Cruz_del_Sur

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Even better, leave the game alone and accept bad decisions happen!
Following that line lets go back to 1987 and have just 3 refs and no TMOs.

The entire point here is that with the technology at the refery's disposal several bad decisions could have easily been avoided.

- - - Updated - - -

How about you give each captain 2 TMO calls each game.

I would think most captains would keep their 2 TMO calls until near the end and use them like a time out to stop the clock.
I was thinking something along the same lines.

Keep the refs/tmo/rules as they are with the addition of two TMO calls/challenges per team. If the challenger gets it right, they still have 2 more challenges/calls. If they get it wrong they lose them.

Then again, no rule is perfect. Can you imagine if the above applied and Scotland got to the end of the game with no challenges left?
 

TheOvalBall

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This might be a good solution, found it on twitter

Steve Coombs ‏@SouthTerracer 1h1 hour ago
Cricket has answer to rugby's TMO issue.

Ref to only go to TMO when teams ask. Strict limit on number of times a team can ask for the TMO.
 

sigesige00

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The problem is the running-time system. That should be changed to the actual playing-time system. Since the actual playing-time of 80mins is around 45%, 20mins half actual playing-time system would be good.
 

j'nuh

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Too difficult for refs, especially amateur, to keep track of. If a ref forgets to stop their stopwatch even once, big portions of the match can be eaten up.
 

Amiga500

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Even better, leave the game alone and accept bad decisions happen! Joubert's error is one of many arguable calls during the match which may or may not have been as wrong! It happens!
Erm, I'm not suggesting anything on the back of this weekend.


More of a myriad of episodes watching the winning team kill time by collapsing scrums ad-nauseum on a wet winter's night
 

ragerancher

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This might be a good solution, found it on twitter

Steve Coombs ‏@SouthTerracer 1h1 hour ago
Cricket has answer to rugby's TMO issue.

Ref to only go to TMO when teams ask. Strict limit on number of times a team can ask for the TMO.
I actually like this. Say 2 or 3 TMO calls a game. Does not include cases of foul play though. Personally I'd like the equivalent of "use it" for setting up set pieces. If a team are dawdling then the ref can tell them to get in position. If they do not then get in position fast enough, call is reversed. This will only count when 1 team is already set up and they are waiting. I've seen English forwards ambling to set pieces so many times and it ****** me off. It gives the air of "can't be bothered" and not really being fired up for the game. The little huddle before every lineout is also poor. Yeah you're tired but if your opposition forwards are able to get there in time, so should you.

I'd also like a change in scrum rules, bit radical but I'd prefer it if they are given free kicks rather than penalties. Scrums are primarily used to win penalties rather than restart the game and some teams work their way from one end of the pitch to the other relying on nothing but penalties. It is a sad sight and I'd much rather we tried to use the scrum as a means to restart play.
 
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