RWC 2011 The 3rd/4th place: Wales vs. Australia

[TRF Mr Fish]

I guess it depends on what your definition of throw is...

Consider this analogy - I'm using kicking instead of throwing but I assume the only difference is that a kick is with your foot:
If a player judges how strong the wind is when shooting for goal, and therefore kicks it to the right of the post, but the wind blows it in and through the posts, they did not strictly speaking kick the ball through the posts - if we are using 'kick' as meaning only the direction you propel it in originally - they kicked it near the posts, and the wind propelled it through.

The above seems a bit absurd, does it not? Yet if we assume the definition you give is correct, what I'm saying above is perfectly correct, just very odd.

The rules need some adapting - purely in a literal sense to avoid any misinterpretations.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

And surely then lineout throws should not be judged 'not straight' if the wind picks them up?

 

[ranger]

I guess it depends on what your definition of throw is...

Consider this analogy - I'm using kicking instead of throwing but I assume the only difference is that a kick is with your foot:
If a player judges how strong the wind is when shooting for goal, and therefore kicks it to the right of the post, but the wind blows it in and through the posts, they did not strictly speaking kick the ball through the posts - if we are using 'kick' as meaning only the direction you propel it in originally - they kicked it near the posts, and the wind propelled it through.

The above seems a bit absurd, does it not? Yet if we assume the definition you give is correct, what I'm saying above is perfectly correct, just very odd.

The rules need some adapting - purely in a literal sense to avoid any misinterpretations.

You seem to be missing the point here.. This is far simpler than you are making it haha.

The laws say nothing about the travel of the ball. Thats the moral of the story. Look at the direction the ball was thrown out of the hand, is that forward or not, anything from there is not mentioned in the rules, so you assume it is allowed.

Also, your analogy? i don't really see the point.. They kicked the ball, it went through the posts. Dandy. It is a completely different scenario that i can't see relates

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Because common sense dictates that you kicked it through the posts, in the same way that if you pass the ball and it goes forwards you have thrown a forward pass.

 

[ranger]

Because common sense dictates that you kicked it through the posts, in the same way that if you pass the ball and it goes forwards you have thrown a forward pass.

Tenuous link at best..

 

[Dizzy]

The rules are really EFFED, if that's the case, then the forward pass in the SA/AUS Qrtr Final shouldn't have been a forward pass and SA would've won, but NO, it was a forward pass because the ball left his hand at one part of the field and was caught a couple metres ahead...

If that's not a forward pass then why did Williams have to reach out and kick it??.

And then you have the final try, seriously, Williams was out on the other side of the field... Its ridiculous how this wasn't pulled up.

 

[Dizzy]

Try it. Its not as simple as you make it sound



Because they are different laws that are identified at different times..

DEFINITION: KNOCK-ON
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

vs

DEFINITION: THROW FORWARD
A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. ‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

The knock on law specifies that if a ball is accidentally (reading between the lines) knocked forward, the player has a chance to regather it. It is ruled a knock on once it goes forward and hits the ground or a player.

The throw forward law specifies that the guilty action occurs at the moment when the ball is thrown forward. So once it gets thrown forward, it is a whistle, no matter weather you juggle or catch it or anything.

This just shows how stupid the laws are, Coz we see players all the time getting the ball dislodged and it going backwards off the opposing team, but it's deemed a knock on. Even when it has gone to the TMO, this has been the ruling.... the Laws are fuc*** I tell ya, FUC***

 

[ranger]

This just shows how stupid the laws are, Coz we see players all the time getting the ball dislodged and it going backwards off the opposing team, but it's deemed a knock on. Even when it has gone to the TMO, this has been the ruling.... the Laws are fuc*** I tell ya, FUC***

Nah man, it says right there that if you lose possession of the ball and it goes forward then it is a knock on. If an opposition player dislodges the ball, then you have lost possession.

I agree that some of the laws need to be tidied up a bit, but i enjoy a bit of ambiguity so you can interpret the laws your own way to get an edge.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I don't get how a ref is supposed to judge what your speed is, and therefore how much distance the ball is allowed to travel forward. It's all fine and dandy if you and the player receiving the pass are running at the same speed, both after and before the pass is taken/thrown, but what happens if one player stops, etc.?

 

[ranger]

I don't get how a ref is supposed to judge what your speed is, and therefore how much distance the ball is allowed to travel forward. It's all fine and dandy if you and the player receiving the pass are running at the same speed, both after and before the pass is taken/thrown, but what happens if one player stops, etc.?

The ref doesn't need to know any of that. All they need to see is which direction the player throws the ball at the immediate moment of release. You should be able to tell a forward pass from a legal one from still photographs at the right moment.

The thing about relitive velocity is that all you have to do is forget about it. Everything that happens after the initial moment of release is irrelvant

 

[Dizzy]

Nah man, it says right there that if you lose possession of the ball and it goes forward then it is a knock on. If an opposition player dislodges the ball, then you have lost possession.

I agree that some of the laws need to be tidied up a bit, but i enjoy a bit of ambiguity so you can interpret the laws your own way to get an edge.

True, but dislodging the ball is a form of "Stealing" possession is it not? compared to "Losing"? I just don't agree with it.

The ref doesn't need to know any of that. All they need to see is which direction the player throws the ball at the immediate moment of release. You should be able to tell a forward pass from a legal one from still photographs at the right moment.

The thing about relitive velocity is that all you have to do is forget about it. Everything that happens after the initial moment of release is irrelvant

There is a problem right here, because referee's don't know when a player is about to pass it and I highly doubt they are concentrating on their hands for the direction of the throw, they are watching play entirely and being able to pick up whether a player threw the ball forward/backward is near impossible to determine. And Referee's don't have still photo's to back themselves on the day so it's just too complicated.

 

[igorBastia]

I hope the welsh will play as they play against the french and win the game. Sorry for the Wallby! I support the Wales. There ware my rugby heroes when I began this crazy rugbygame.

 

[dullonien]

People are missing the point of this rule completely. It isn't there to make ref's lives difficult, it's there to allow the game to flow and make players lives easier. I urge anyone who is sceptical of the rule to go out and experiment, by running at full pelt and passing the ball to see just how hard it would be to not have the ball travel forwards relative to the ground. Rangers scenario with the wind also makes allot of sense, because if you couple forward momentum with wind, it would make it even more difficult, and almost impossible for players to judge how to pass the ball without it travelling forwards in relation to the ground. All this would also make support running nigh impossible, because the support runner would need to take into account how fast the ball carrier is running, and how far away his is and then work out how far behind sais ball carrier he'd need to be so that he receives the ball without it travelling forwards in relation to the ground.

Surely the way it is now makes perfect sense? It might be difficult for ref's, but that's just something the ref's will have to deal with, because anything else would make the game of rugby incredibly difficult to play, with play getting called back for forward passes every over minute!

 

[igorBastia]

What happens after the RWC doesn't matter, teams fall apart then. If you dominate before the RWC and win it you are the best team, simpel as that. Like England in 2003 out of the top of my head and like NZ should do now.

JW you are a funny man. Sometime be fair! I Know how hard it is but make a little effort that's liberate your self from the "Like England in 2003" The past is the past, we see the future and maybe Georgia will win the next World Rugby cup!

ViVE LA REPUBLIQUE
Long live to your queen

 

[igorBastia]

Where I could find welchs supporters songs?