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RWC 2015 Organisers Consider Fan Segregation

Feicarsinn said:
Segregation exists in football because of the rivalry.
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Actually, I think its more complicated than that. Its actually the Football hooligans who are the problem, and they are not "fans" they are just a bunch of mindless thugs who use football as a vehicle for their violence.
 
Shaggy said:
Hey, fair enough Simon, these are only my opinions/perspectives, and doesn't make them right or wrong ... but it's kinda what I was getting at, not everybody is from the UK or Ireland, things are different all over the world, and some of those people are coming to visit for the RWC.

I guess my points are/were:

1/ The RWC is a global event, with fans coming from all over the world (not just the UK & Ireland), so they might be a different kind of fan/crowd than what you normally get.

2/ They will bring with them their own allegiances and rivalry.

3/ Segregation and/or artificial rivalry isn't needed, because it already exists.

It's only my opinion, but, I believe that segregation exists in football because of violence, not because of rivalry ... I admit that rivalry is a component, but I suspect that for some fans, the violence is more important than the game itself.

In conclusion, you definitely can have rivalry in sport without segregation and/or violence ... it's just a different kind of rivalry ... not all sports have to, or need to be the same.
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You make it sound like UK and Ireland (and France too btw) is one little corner of the rugby sporting globe...it's five teams out of the 8 or 9 who play the game. That leaves South Africa, NZ and Aus. Again, I've never ever seen any of the things I mentioned above. I've seen Ireland and England fans in amongst NZ and SA fans..chattering away when they're not waving when the camera pans to them. The game is as it has been described umpteen times before...a "friendly rivalry", which is no rivalry at all. Segregation exists in football because of the intense rivalry...it gets heated before, during and after games. Taunts, chants, banners, constant slanging etc. There is no bonhomie ala Rugby.

Aside from the difference in fan culture, when it comes to players, coaches etc. where are the personalities? Where are the weekly outspoken comments? Where's the needle? Where are the headlines?

smartcooky said:
Actually, I think its more complicated than that. Its actually the Football hooligans who are the problem, and they are not "fans" they are just a bunch of mindless thugs who use football as a vehicle for their violence.
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Hooliganism ended during the era of Thatcher. Actual thugs are in a tiny minority, or in the case of UK and Ireland non existant.
 
SimonG said:
You make it sound like UK and Ireland (and France too btw) is one little corner of the rugby sporting globe...it's five teams out of the 8 or 9 who play the game. That leaves South Africa, NZ and Aus. Again, I've never ever seen any of the things I mentioned above. I've seen Ireland and England fans in amongst NZ and SA fans..chattering away when they're not waving when the camera pans to them. The game is as it has been described umpteen times before...a "friendly rivalry", which is no rivalry at all. Segregation exists in football because of the intense rivalry...it gets heated before, during and after games. Taunts, chants, banners, constant slanging etc. There is no bonhomie ala Rugby.

Aside from the difference in fan culture, when it comes to players, coaches etc. where are the personalities? Where are the weekly outspoken comments? Where's the needle? Where are the headlines?



Hooliganism ended during the era of Thatcher. Actual thugs are in a tiny minority, or in the case of UK and Ireland non existant.
Click to expand...

We seem to be going around in circles for this conversation ... I certainly aren't trying to make rugby from your part of the world seem like one little corner of the world, merely pointing out that rugby fans from all around the world will be there for the RWC, and that they may be different in terms of crowd behavior. My points are valid because if the anticipated match up at the Semifinal occurs between New Zealand and South Africa (for example), the crowd is going to be made up by a significant portion of New Zealand and South African fans ... so it won't be the traditional crowd you are use to. You can describe this as friendly rivalry if you like, but it's more a rivalry based on mutual respect ... never of these sides find it acceptable to lose to one another, and it's not the only such rivalry that exists in the sport.

Anyway I'm glad the segregation issue is a dead issue ... I'd like to go to the RWC, and take my daughters if I can possibly manage it. If there was a need for the fans to be segregated, and delays in fans being released after the match because of the chance of violence, I definitely wouldn't go ... I believe I'm not alone in this view, and that many existing fans would "vote with their feet" and not attend the matches either.

I'm not saying that Soccer's rivalries are "wrong", just that they aren't for me ... Soccer is the largest sport in the world and their rivalries work for Soccer, Rugby is the fastest growing sport in the world, and the fact that the fans can mix seems to work for Rugby.
 
SimonG said:
You make it sound like UK and Ireland (and France too btw) is one little corner of the rugby sporting globe...it's five teams out of the 8 or 9 who play the game. That leaves South Africa, NZ and Aus. Again, I've never ever seen any of the things I mentioned above. I've seen Ireland and England fans in amongst NZ and SA fans..chattering away when they're not waving when the camera pans to them. The game is as it has been described umpteen times before...a "friendly rivalry", which is no rivalry at all. Segregation exists in football because of the intense rivalry...it gets heated before, during and after games. Taunts, chants, banners, constant slanging etc. There is no bonhomie ala Rugby.

Aside from the difference in fan culture, when it comes to players, coaches etc. where are the personalities? Where are the weekly outspoken comments? Where's the needle? Where are the headlines?



Hooliganism ended during the era of Thatcher. Actual thugs are in a tiny minority, or in the case of UK and Ireland non existant.
Click to expand...

This is just such bull****. Who are your 8-9 teams? Is Scotland one of them? Do you know that more people in America and Canada play rugby than in Scotland, and same goes for Italy. I guess I was hallucinating when I saw all those thousands of Argentine fans packing the stadiums over all these years.

There will be tons of ex-pat fans there from more than 8-9 countries. I guarentee you'll see large amounts of expat Canadians and Americans, Argentine fans will be there in decent numbers. The other European qualifiers should have sizable travelling support particularly Romania. The Japanese love to travel and this is as good an excuse as any for them to pop on by England and the UK at large.

Is this like pedantic argument week on TRF? Maybe it's my large number of work hours this week that's reducing my patience but there are some brick walls on the threads it seems, people entirely unwilling to carry out conversations and concede any sort of points against overwhelmning contrary evidence or weight of informed opposing opinions.
 
TRF_LittleGuy said:
This is just such bull****. Who are your 8-9 teams? Is Scotland one of them? Do you know that more people in America and Canada play rugby than in Scotland, and same goes for Italy. I guess I was hallucinating when I saw all those thousands of Argentine fans packing the stadiums over all these years.

There will be tons of ex-pat fans there from more than 8-9 countries. I guarentee you'll see large amounts of expat Canadians and Americans, Argentine fans will be there in decent numbers. The other European qualifiers should have sizable travelling support particularly Romania. The Japanese love to travel and this is as good an excuse as any for them to pop on by England and the UK at large.

Is this like pedantic argument week on TRF? Maybe it's my large number of work hours this week that's reducing my patience but there are some brick walls on the threads it seems, people entirely unwilling to carry out conversations and concede any sort of points against overwhelmning contrary evidence or weight of informed opposing opinions.
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Dont take offence as im well aware what Rugby nations are represented at tournaments so I wasn't being dismissive. This thread is on the subject of segregation, to create rivalry. Having seen the vast near empty stadiums Canada and US teams play in there is no issue on segregation there.

The point about Scotland wouldn't carry much water nowadays as their player numbers have dwindled, they are having to import players from abroad to make the national team. Italy is stretching it...their club games are played infront of two men and a dog.

Staying on topic, the Telegraph article addresses the issue of lack of atmosphere in Rugby and suggests segregation....my point is it's not needed in Rugby as there isn't an intense rivalry that would require it. To try and artificially create it would fail as the game is rooted in bonhomie with opposing fans sitting among each other. The article goes on to celebrate this...and over 96% voted in the poll to keep it this way. Perhaps Rugby folk are just accustomed to the more polite, jovial friendly nature of the sport and the lack of intense rivalry. To me the sport loses out because of it but I accept that for others (seemingly 96%) they are content with this.
 
SimonG said:
Dont take offence as im well aware what Rugby nations are represented at tournaments so I wasn't being dismissive. This thread is on the subject of segregation, to create rivalry. Having seen the vast near empty stadiums Canada and US teams play in there is no issue on segregation there.

The point about Scotland wouldn't carry much water nowadays as their player numbers have dwindled, they are having to import players from abroad to make the national team. Italy is stretching it...their club games are played infront of two men and a dog.

Staying on topic, the Telegraph article addresses the issue of lack of atmosphere in Rugby and suggests segregation....my point is it's not needed in Rugby as there isn't an intense rivalry that would require it. To try and artificially create it would fail as the game is rooted in bonhomie with opposing fans sitting among each other. The article goes on to celebrate this...and over 96% voted in the poll to keep it this way. Perhaps Rugby folk are just accustomed to the more polite, jovial friendly nature of the sport and the lack of intense rivalry. To me the sport loses out because of it but I accept that for others (seemingly 96%) they are content with this.
Click to expand...

Funny coming from an Irish poster.
 
SimonG said:
Dont take offence as im well aware what Rugby nations are represented at tournaments so I wasn't being dismissive. This thread is on the subject of segregation, to create rivalry. Having seen the vast near empty stadiums Canada and US teams play in there is no issue on segregation there.

The point about Scotland wouldn't carry much water nowadays as their player numbers have dwindled, they are having to import players from abroad to make the national team. Italy is stretching it...their club games are played infront of two men and a dog.

Staying on topic, the Telegraph article addresses the issue of lack of atmosphere in Rugby and suggests segregation....my point is it's not needed in Rugby as there isn't an intense rivalry that would require it. To try and artificially create it would fail as the game is rooted in bonhomie with opposing fans sitting among each other. The article goes on to celebrate this...and over 96% voted in the poll to keep it this way. Perhaps Rugby folk are just accustomed to the more polite, jovial friendly nature of the sport and the lack of intense rivalry. To me the sport loses out because of it but I accept that for others (seemingly 96%) they are content with this.
Click to expand...

Yeah just look at this vast empty stadium for Canada vs. Ireland.


625447_693845907294055_1264404199_n.jpg
 
^ awwww shieeeeeeeeet....a little bit of pwnage there, I must say. YOU TELL EM LITTLE GUY !! :p
 
I love those panorama shots. I'm actually in both of those!

And on the whole soccer rivalry thing. Why would you want to create that level of it? The friendly polite atmosphere gets mentioned as a bad thing, I don't see it that way at all. It's great that you can go and enjoy the game with everyone all around you, and when the action picks up you can bet it'll get noisy. I think soccer fans cheer so much cus they're bored.
 
goodNumber10 said:
don't know what you're on about i can see at least ONE an empty seat from all the way up on my high horse here.....
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Pfft really, look at all that empty space in the middle. What on Earth are they doing not packing that out?
 
ragerancher said:
Pfft really, look at all that empty space in the middle. What on Earth are they doing not packing that out?
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!!!

See those lines of empty seats down the top of that far stand? Some people call them steps, i call them $$$$$$$$$$ makers.
 
stormer2010 said:
Yeah.. erm are we looking at (potentially):

2 Richardt Strauss (already capped)
5 Quinn Roux
7/8 CJ Stander
11 Danie Poolman
12 Bundee Aki
13/15 Jared Payne

Who a I missing?
Click to expand...

Bleyendaal, Heenan, Collins, Bent etc. etc.
 

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