Sam Burgess...What do we think?

[goodNumber10]

Notice the "on a ball" Dyson sponsor's text... that's the slogan worn by back-rowers.

Steve James says he's been told that Sam will now start in the back-row.

I hope all you reprobates remember I called it first...

If he's going in at 8, he's been doing a lot more union prep than anyone has let on.

he's been doing tons of prep work in Australia.

Bath have been quite open about that, he has been having phone confs with the coaches and they've been sending him stuff to get him up to speed and that he's been doing detailed analysis etc... leading up to finishing his Rabbitohs contract.

 

[SimonG]

I would be A M A Z E D if Sam plays in the back row (for England)...for two main reasons

1.takes longer to know the position (nuances...or sold we are told by the 'experts')
2.its an area England are very strong in; have a paucity of resources at centre.

I've no doubt he could be England's best back rower, but the improvement there would be minimal in comparison to the mammoth improvement he would bring to centre. Plus there's more space to run in midfield and once he builds up a head of steam that's where he's most explosive. On the other hand he would probably get more ball in the back row and you want him to have the ball as much as possible.

All this back row stuff has occurred before with Andy Farrell, so I'm taking today's suggestion with a pinch of salt.

 

[Tubularbandage]

Number 10. We know he's been doing that kind of prep. What I'm saying is if they are going to blood him at number 8, then I reckon he's been running drills, contact drills, training etc.

He's probably got six weeks until he's healed enough for play, so that will help as well.

 

[goodNumber10]

What I'm saying is if they are going to blood him at number 8, then I reckon he's been running drills, contact drills, training etc.

have they said when he'll be playing then? He'll be doing light low impact contact work in the next week or so - working on technique, body positions and so on... that was always going to be the way, it's more about his game awareness and his understanding of the 8/6/12 roles that will define where/what he's going to start as.

So he's clearly turned up understanding what his role as an 8/6 would be.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I reckon at least 2 weeks away from playing, probably 4-6 at a guess.

 

[goodNumber10]

don't forget he's had 3 weeks off already.... i reckon he'll be back on balls skills etc... in the next week, and doing static/positional work around the breakdown etc... within 2.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yeah, a 2 month RTP with time off the bench in lower level games seems right to me.

 

[Tubularbandage]

The surgeons were pretty clear on 6-8 weeks initially. So he's maybe a month away from full contact, given the three weeks he's already had.

I suspect they'll want more time than that though if they plan to use him in the back row straight away.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think it'll mainly depend on which games we're playing - "A" league is basically just academy lads, guys coming back from injury and even Uni players, depending on how stretched club resources are - so it's not exactly high level.
LV is a bit more variable, and even some of the premiership games are potentially pretty low pressure games.
If he's on the bench and we're beating Newcastle fairly comfortably I don't think it would be too much of a risk to put him on, for example.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think it might be a stroke of genius for him to play at 8; there shouldn't be an overemphasis on 'role' at 8 as much as in other positions. Sure, the different positions each have core roles by and large but there is massive scope for a player to express himself and add something different than what would be considered any given position's role as such and IMO particularly at 8. I mean at 8 the two best 8's ATM (IMO) in Read and Vermeulen play massively different roles for their teams and 8 is possibly the least proscriptive position in rugby. 8 would allow him to roam the wider channels ala Read and take the ball back on a kick return with enough space to seriously build up a had of steam. Or, if he flourishes in close like Vermeulen let him do that.

 

[lynam1104]

He might lack the tactical nuances to be the best 8 initially, but he will be so destructive with ball in hand I reckon it'll be worth it and he will pick things up in time. I don't think that putting him at centre and hoping he'll learn the game enough to be a 6/8 will work in any way, in order to learn to play you have to just play. For example Folau took him about a season to really get to grips with most aspects of the game (He's not finished yet IMO) but he did that by playing in the position the coaches thought he would be best in.

 

[Big Ewis]

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9540933,00.html

look at this. They don't even know where they're going to put him but they know they want him. Mass Burgess, ultimate artifact and Massiah of the new Rugby age.

 

[majorb]

I have played both codes and rarely do you see Union forwards displaying any decent ball skills...That is generally because from a game plan point of view it is NOT needed.
It in no way means they do not possess these skills. League forwards however appear more skilful. In the old days of Rugby League it was generally always the half backs dictating all attacking plays as was there role. As the game has progressed however you will always have league forwards involved in complicated moves. There are exceptions to that rule of course, Props in League will generally never pass (James Graham a massive exception to that rule) not due to lack of skill set, but that is not required of them.
I have seen Burgess making numerous passes, and not just offloads but set moves. The problem here is that some are making comments on the odd bits of footage they have seen of this player. If you follow the Rabbitoh's games over the last couple of years especially you would see there is more here than a 1 trick pony here.
Lets give the lad a chance I think most will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[majorb]

Tub you are on my wave length..
I have no doubt many of these people have seen nothing more than the odd clip of Burgess and see him to be no more than a hit up artist. I have followed this young lad's career since his debut for GB against New Zealand and cannot wait to see what he brings to Union.
I only pray that they play him at centre otherwise he will just be utilised as a tackling machine.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What an ignorant post, there are a lot of league fans on here, and a few players too (I'm a dual-coder myself).

 

[majorb]

Then that would obviously not be aimed at you!!
I refer to those who suggest him to be nothing more than a bulldozer who doesn't have the necessary skills to be a Union Centre!

 

[donmcdazzle]

In NZ we get all the NRL games live, so most people who watch union also watch league.. As far as skillful forwards in league go, Burgess is not one you would highlight as especially skillful. He has good skills for a big man, but they aren't special compared to others. Off the top of my head Greg Bird, SBW, Feleti Mateo, Glenn Stewart, Greg Eastwood - I'd say they are more skillful and better ball players than Burgess, so lets not pretend for a minute he is this revolutionary player who can do everything better than any other forward in the game.

His main attribute is that he is big, strong and explosive with more ticker than someone like Tony Williams for example, who is bigger, stronger and faster but who doesn't appear to have the mental side of things worked out.

He might be a decent centre, but if he is it won't be because of his passing or kicking, it'll be because he can run decent lines and get over the advantage line effectively.

 

[majorb]

Agreed and I would even throw in Graham and Sutton but am not just talking ball skills, he also has good footwork for such a big man. I too am a big fan of the NRL, in fact any rugby, anywhere. Am just tired of reading all these posts which suggest that the skill set needed/displayed in Rugby Union are far greater than that of League.
Look at the end of the day almost all these lads have grown up with a rugby ball in their hands so to suggest a League player cannot pass a ball is almost ridiculous. As I have posted before, just because you do not see it within their respective games does not mean they don't have the skills to do it.
Lets see is how I first started my posts and lets see is how ill finish.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm taken aback by how much media coverage this is getting tbh... Rugby on the main news programs!

Agreed and I would even throw in Graham and Sutton but am not just talking ball skills, he also has good footwork for such a big man. I too am a big fan of the NRL, in fact any rugby, anywhere. Am just tired of reading all these posts which suggest that the skill set needed/displayed in Rugby Union are far greater than that of League.

"All these posts..."?

...Which posts?

 

[donmcdazzle]

Agreed and I would even throw in Graham and Sutton but am not just talking ball skills, he also has good footwork for such a big man. I too am a big fan of the NRL, in fact any rugby, anywhere. Am just tired of reading all these posts which suggest that the skill set needed/displayed in Rugby Union are far greater than that of League.
Look at the end of the day almost all these lads have grown up with a rugby ball in their hands so to suggest a League player cannot pass a ball is almost ridiculous. As I have posted before, just because you do not see it within their respective games does not mean they don't have the skills to do it.
Lets see is how I first started my posts and lets see is how ill finish.

I don't think anybody has said that or is implying that. I think what you might be misinterpreting is that the skill sets are different and some of us (myself included) are questioning whether Burgess is going to able to pick up the new things as fast as others are suggesting he will.

Many skills are directly transferrable; passing, stepping, tackling etc. But there are certain skills are pretty unique to union that you wouldn't pick up from league; rucking, mauling, lineouts, scrums, and in the backs the angles on attack and defence would also take some adjustment.

Benji Marshall was seen as a pretty amazing league player (and he was), his skills are right up there with anyone in league over the past decade. You would think one of the more skillful halves in league could fit in ok to first five or fulback in union, but he was a genuine flop in both positions, which probably highlights how hard it is to transfer the skills.

Burgess has physical tools Marshall didn't have which should allow him to mask a few things as he should initially be able to at least run it straight and make yards. But inside centre can be a pretty intricate position, and that is why I'm a bit skeptical he is going to be this instant superstar that some are projecting.