Sam Burgess...What do we think?

[Maverick1987]

Nah this guy is far worse than big ewis ! Big ew is funny ! When he thought banahan was the answer to our problems . Lol this dude is just a plonker who watches the six nations from his arm chair and has never played or watched anything other than international rugby

 

[goodNumber10]

Seriously...and I mean seriously, do you think any of the players listed are quality?

Farrell is the epitome of limited. Campese (outspoken as ever..but usually right) savaged him in the summer. Offers zero craft or creativity. Mentioning Cipriani makes me think your taking the michael...hasn't he tried to move to football?

Last quality flyhalf: Wilkinson, centre: Guscott, winger: Robinson, fullback: Lewsey.

The only English players who get a realistic sniff of the Lions XV nowadays are forwards.

Odd call that - Tindall and Greenwood were widely regarded as the best centre pairing int he world 2002-2004 - they were holding out Mike Catt who wasn't exactly rubbish.

Farrell is 22 years old and only just settled into international rugby yet in that time has made the 10 shirt his to lose and been on a Lions tour. This year alone he's made more line breaks in this 6nations than any other fly half. He played centre for the U20's at the world championship and they didn't exactly play 10 man rugby.

He's far from the finished article as everyone knows but the work he's doing with Mike Catt is really paying off.

Besides Campese is hardly the most objective of critics is he?

 

[SimonG]

Tindall and Greenwood were a solid, tight combination and good defensively, but neither were game changers. I never went into a game against England thinking.."worried about their centres tearing us open". England played 10 man Rugby for quite a bit of Clive's era..and pretty damn near perfect too. Flashes of Robinson brilliance lit up the backs allied with the straight forward running of Cohen.

Guscott was a game changer, Burgess in my view can definitely be a game changer (as he has been in league). England lack x factor players..and it's this that Campese was correctly alluding to.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I have literally never heard Greenwood described as simply solid and defensively good.
He's one of the best 12s fo the pro era.

 

[Patchey]

Did you ever watch Will Greenwood play? He was so much more than 'just' solid it isn't funny!

 

[goodNumber10]

Tindall and Greenwood were a solid, tight combination and good defensively, but neither were game changers. I never went into a game against England thinking.."worried about their centres tearing us open". England played 10 man Rugby for quite a bit of Clive's era..and pretty damn near perfect too. Flashes of Robinson brilliance lit up the backs allied with the straight forward running of Cohen.

Guscott was a game changer, Burgess in my view can definitely be a game changer (as he has been in league). England lack x factor players..and it's this that Campese was correctly alluding to.

I don't even know what to say to that... Greenwood and Tindall were amazing in attack, Tindall on top form was one of the most udner rated centres ever, immense in defence, a deceptive turn of pace and he ran a blisteringly hard line.

As for greenwood, watch the Lewsey try against france - the length of the pitch one, and watch Greenwood running the whole show.

 

[HenryChinaski]

this is literally the dictionary definition of trolling.
Especially with how the current Ireland backline is looking

 

[Peat]

this is literally the dictionary definition of trolling.

Yup

Especially with how the current Ireland backline is looking

Debatably so's that tbh. This thread is bad enough as it is... and its completely irrelevant.

Now, us beating them in Ireland 42-6 with 'ten man rugby' and 'solid centres' is pretty relevant...^_^

 

[HenryChinaski]

Yup



Debatably so's that tbh. This thread is bad enough as it is... and its completely irrelevant.

Now, us beating them in Ireland 42-6 with 'ten man rugby' and 'solid centres' is pretty relevant...^_^

Well, that was the joke!

 

[Peat]

Oh right, my bad.

Do you think its possible he's serious?

 

[HenryChinaski]

He may very well be.. thing is, many people outside of England, (and in England for that matter) haven't seen the likes of Nowell, May etc play rugby, and will just assume its same old same old.

On the other hand, stats saying how well our backs are doing are not hard to find. Even on Scrum V last night the panel were warning how dangerous our back 3 has become. The signs are there, but being honest, even some of the better posters on this forum didn't seem to rate our guys prior to saturday.

 

[goodNumber10]

to be fair i still remain unconvinced by May. I really really hate seeing wingers step backwards out fo contact and run sideways - i know he's looking for a defender to isolate but even so i like players who are more aggresive in the contact zone.

They are both young though and in the space of three games they have come on in leaps and bounds. Yarde coming back in as well is good news, Watson is also looking like the real deal. And with Fodens return on the horizon back three is looking decent.

I'm not a fan of Wade or Goode but even they can/could make the step up.

 

[SimonG]

"One the best 12s of the pro era"....was kept out of the Lions XV by Rob Henderson.

Don't let facts stand in the way of your argument though.

Regards the mauling we took in 03, we were massacred upfront by that pack...the same pack who beat NZ in their own backward despite playing with a man less. 10 man Rugby was regularly aimed at Clive's team. Martin Johnson, Lawrence Dallaglio, Richard Hill and co....when these fellas disappeared that was the end of England.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"One the best 12s of the pro era"....was kept out of the Lions XV by Rob Henderson.

Don't let facts stand in the way of your argument though.

Flipping heck, have ever watched the man play? Or ever watched rugby in general?

This is like talking to a particularly stupid plank of wood.

 

[SimonG]

I dunno...who is a better judge of a player...a world cup winning manager (Graham Henry)...or...a poster in a Rugby forum.

Gimme all of 2.5 seconds to think about that one.

 

[goodNumber10]

"One the best 12s of the pro era"....was kept out of the Lions XV by Rob Henderson.

Don't let facts stand in the way of your argument though.

Ok, lets get the facts straight.

Greenwood was injured on that tour... he tore his ankle ligaments the week before the 1st test, Henderson was in because Greenwood was injured.

 

[goodNumber10]

I dunno...who is a better judge of a player...a world cup winning manager (Graham Henry)...or...a poster in a Rugby forum.

Gimme all of 2.5 seconds to think about that one.

you might want to check your facts in those 2.5 seconds mate.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Will Greenwood is so mediocre that he went on the 97 tour lions tour, uncapped, ahead of the Phil de Glanville, the England captain.

So.
Damned.
Mediocre.

 

[goodNumber10]

was phil de glanville though, he was rubbish

 

[Patchey]

"One the best 12s of the pro era"....was kept out of the Lions XV by Rob Henderson.

Don't let facts stand in the way of your argument though.

Regards the mauling we took in 03, we were massacred upfront by that pack...the same pack who beat NZ in their own backward despite playing with a man less. 10 man Rugby was regularly aimed at Clive's team. Martin Johnson, Lawrence Dallaglio, Richard Hill and co....when these fellas disappeared that was the end of England.

To be honest I think had Greenwood been able to walk and been kept out of the side by Rob Henderson you would have a point. But as he was on crutches maybe you should reassess your argument.

Also, I think you'll find we were lacking two forwards.

As for the end of England, I suppose getting to the '07 final without Martin Johnson or Richatd Hill doesn't count then?