Saracens vs Racing Métro 92

[gingergenius]

Looks like a very nice team. Good atmosphere

All kiddin' aside, why do they have so many South Africans? Not that it's a bad thing (Ulster have 5 now as well with Pienaar, Botha, Muller, Wannenburg and Diack) but at least attract some top players from abroad if you decide to scout overseas.

Saracens in short:

originally from north london... not particularly successful during the amateur era, but did achieve promotion to the top division at the end of the 80s under the captaincy of floyd steadman, one of my old coaches. we've been in the prem ever since.

bought by nigel wray at the start of the professional era, and thanks to him is one of the wealthiest clubs in england. he's signed some big names - lynagh, horan, pienaar etc. all played for us. won the tetley bitter cup in 1998 when it still meant something, but otherwise have serially underachieved despite our financial backing. also moved to watford, what i call a north london suburb but is technically outside of london.

because north london isn't a strong rugby area (unlike south-west/ east midlands for example), we've never been able to get the kind of following that the likes of Gloucester and Northampton have. We also miss out in london to harlequins who are seen as glamourous, and wasps who've been very successful in the last 20 years. So our fanbase is not too high.

the recent changes are, essentially, to increase fan numbers. there are a lot of saffas in london and it was decided by some businessmen that it would be a good idea to give sarries tight links with south africa to entice the expat saffas into becoming saracens fans. so, we've got venter as coach, and a lot of afrikaner players. on top of this, they've taken games to wembley and got big attendances there, plus other gimmicky things like the saracens song etc. all to increase the profile. hand in hand with sustained success (which, i hope, we're starting to generate), this should increase the number of fans.

in terms of how south african the club is, i haven't noticed much difference as a fan. the likes of saull, goode, farrell, cato, short etc. are all 1st team squad members from the academy who get regular gametime; we've also got borthwick, botha, strettle, wigglesworth, barritt etc. who are england-qualified, and a smattering of other nationalities.

so in essance, i'd say we're still pretty much the same club, who happen to have a higher than average number of south africans on the staff.

at the moment, we're one of the most disliked clubs about, largely because of venter and his outbursts, and our prick of a director, ed griffiths. besides that, we're a good side capable of playing attractive rugby, and we'v e got some good english and south african talent on display... and while watford's a hole, there's still a lot going for us.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Nice man. Thanks for the explanation. I didn't mean it in any offensive way, I was just curious. I have to say, when I started to inform myself about European rugby, Ulster and Saracens were the first teams on my list because of the South Africans (which is because of my ties to SA). I noticed a lot of people disliking Saracens but never understood why. Also, why couldn't they sign players like Jean de Villiers, Ruan Pienaar, Butch James or BJ Botha? Not necessarily those players, but at least players with a bit more experience and some Springbok matches in the bag.

The match against Racing Metro (the club I am following because of Francois Steyn) was the first one I watched of Saracens and it was nice to see Barritt play again since he left the Sharks. His pass to Hernandez aside (Oh boy) he played pretty well, scoring his try in the same corner where he made the mistake in the first half.

I will get into Saracens a little more over the next few weeks. SH rugby is on a break now until February so I have some time to spare. Again, thanks for the explanation

 

[munstermuffin]

Saracens simply bottle it and for a team with a Head Coach that speaks so much cr*p - They never back it up and and really need to come back down to earth and realize where they realistically are at.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I reckon Venter leaving his current post from me will allow Saracens to move on!

 

[gingergenius]

looks like my first post actually registered (firefox crashed when i clicked 'reply' on the long one)... mods can delete the 2nd one...

 

[Teh Mite]

Brian Moore: Saracens coach Brendan Venter's bizarre post-match interview was unprofessional and pointless

If MGM have plans to remake Barry Levinson’s award-winning film Rain Man, they will have to contend with the fact that one of the original leads, Dustin Hoffman, is now in his early seventies.


They should not worry, though, because in the unlikely figure of Brendan Venter, head coach of Saracens, they have a perfect replacement for the role of Raymond Babbitt.

Following his team’s 24-21 defeat to Racing Metro at Vicarage Road, Venter conducted an interview with a Sky Sports reporter that at times was a facsimile of Hoffman’s character. The South African was deliberately obstructive, dead-batting every question put to him and refusing to offer an opinion.

How you interpret Venter’s behaviour rests largely on whether you agree with his claim that both he and Saracens have been treated unfairly by referees generally and by European Rugby Cup particularly. So preternatural was Venter’s performance that it could evidence numerous things; the only common verdict being that it was, by any yardstick, unusual to the point of disturbing.

Depending from where you begin your diagnosis, any of the following could be mooted as a reason for Venter’s exposition – mental illness; the influence of mind-altering substances; autism; incivility; arrogance; childishness; an ill-judged attempt at humour; an appalling lack of appreciation of his position or defiance towards ERC and the disciplinary measures visited on him for previous comments made post-match.

People who know him were sufficiently concerned about his behaviour to state that something was not right with him and you have to wonder what Venter, who is also a doctor, would have made of a person exhibiting symptoms similar to those captured on camera. If Venter is not ill, then none of the alternative explanations is acceptable for a man holding his position in what purports to be a professional outfit.

The first point is Venter was asked no more than the usual quota of closed questions so beloved of sports interviewers and the fact that more than half of the inquiries were short and required more than a single word answer means that you cannot blame the substance of the interview.

Additionally, Venter and Saracens are reliant for their livelihoods in rugby on the huge sums paid by the broadcaster for TV rights, which include post-match interviews. If they don’t like it, don’t compete in the competition and give the money back.

If Venter wants to conduct public interviews from a personal perspective he should do so outside the post-match arena; when he is interviewed as his club’s representative his personal issues are irrelevant. He has to carry the image of his employers and the wider interests of their sponsors and supporters, none of whom should have been happy with his approach.

Unfortunately the sarcastic statement of Saracens chief executive Edward Griffiths, that they were very hopeful the interview would not result in further a disciplinary hearing, went on to categorise Venter’s words as an “ERC-style interview”.

Griffiths must have a similar level of disconnect to Venter if he thinks this situation acceptable. His failure to see things from any other perspective than that afforded from a bunker somewhere in Watford demonstrates a lack of perception that probably explains why his club remain serial underachievers.

Venter may feel victimised but that is inside his own head and few outside that increasingly bizarre topography see him as a martyr, even if they have some sympathy with him. Further, he is the author of whatever treatment comes his way and how he thinks this was helpful or gives him any victory over his ‘tormentors’ is difficult for anyone to delineate.

It has been said that his are the comments of a passionate ex-player, angry at opaque administrators, but you doubt whether another former professional centre at Saracens, Andy Farrell, would ever conduct himself similarly.

Venter is a bright man and could easily have deconstructed any interview that contained unfair or loaded questions. Perhaps he was disappointed that his interlocutor did not pose these and that he was
forced to focus on inconvenient matters like why Saracens did not have the answers to the fairly facile problems posed by their opponents; why they, yet again, look unlikely to make a significant impact in the European stage.

If this was an ironic performance whose comedy has been lost on us, then the failure of recognition can only be explained by Venter’s nationality because here, in what is considered to be the world capital of subtle humour, it didn’t play like that.

In the end the one thing that undermines Venter fatally in the eyes of all but the Fez-heads (Saracens’ supporters) is the fact that invariably this seems to happen when his side lose.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...terview-was-unprofessional-and-pointless.html

 

[lynam1104]

So Bullit you work for the telegraph now then?

 

[Teh Mite]

Is that some ill conceived attempt at humour or are you just being obtuse?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Stop using big words ...

 

[lynam1104]

As Cyrmo said stop using big words but yes i is an "ill conceived attempt at humor".

 

[Teh Mite]

Three cheers for lynam1104

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Damn, that was really childish (unless he was on some serious medication? - his eyes didn't look right to me). You could hear the reporter getting upset and rightly so. Something tells me he won't apologise. We Afrikaners don't do apologies very well, LOL.

Just hope he doesn't somehow get a post at WP or my 2nd team, Vrystaat! He would be able to bring some experience to the Southern Kings, though. Only time will tell, I guess. Saracens must be glad to see the back of him ITO PR.. leaves me wondering whether he really had decided to leave or whether it was 'suggested' to him by his superiors..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I have to admit that I did find it somewhat entertaining, though. Wouldn't be saying that if it come from Allistar (WP coach) but as a neutral it was refreshing in an absurd way.

 

[gingergenius]

moore's right... whatever you think about farrell's union career, i can't ever seeing him coming out with some of the stuff venter has.

rugby coaches are supposed to be an extension of the typical rugby personality - look at richard cockerill's statements, which although passionate are always honest and never rude. it's football where you see whingeing, and there's only one coach (in my eyes) who's been able to whinge and come out stronger for it - and that's mourinho because he's funny and he's successful.

at the moment, venter is not funny, and despite having done an excellent job at sarries, we still don't look like we're quite good enough to win the premiership, and 3 defeats from 3 in the HC is not success.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Maybe he can replace Alistair Coetzee who becomes the new Springbok coach in a couple of months

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Good, Lord, I hope not.

 

[Teh Mite]

Saracens director of rugby Brendan Venter has been warned by European Rugby Cup over his conduct in future media interviews.
Venter gave a bizarre interview to Sky Sports on Saturday following his sides' 24-21 home Heineken Cup

defeat to Racing Metro.
The South African refused to offer any opinions during the minute-long exchange at Vicarage Road, often answering a question by merely repeating it.
The interview has been interpreted as Venter's protest against a 25,000 euros fine imposed by ERC for being "inappropriately critical of ERC, the tournament, match officials and the sport of rugby union" following his team's Pool Two game against Leinster

at Wembley in October.
The ERC statement read: "ERC would like to point out that it expects key representatives of clubs participating in its tournaments to engage with the media in a co-operative and respectful manner.
Disappointed

"It is therefore disappointed by Mr Venter's approach throughout the interview.
"ERC has asked Saracens

to confirm that Mr Venter will not adopt the same approach, or one in anyway similar, when giving media interviews before or after Friday's Heineken Cup Pool 3 game between Racing Metro 92 and Saracens."
Venter, who will leave his post at Saracens next month, incurred ERC's wrath for his comments to the media following the defeat by Leinster, with 15,000 euros of his fine suspended after he was found guilty of misconduct at a subsequent disciplinary hearing.
The suspended portion of Venter's fine runs until June 30, 2012, and would be payable only if he is found guilty of further acts of misconduct arising from ERC tournaments before that date.




-----------------------------------
After losing to Leinster he gives the biggest whine of an interview I've ever seen, taking defeat like a spoilt little rich girl and stating amongst other things that rugby union is going to die. Then he rightfully gets slammed. Then he follows defeat again with the stupid Mike Bassett impression he gets criticised again! What's Venter supposed to do!?



Behave with a little dignity perhaps?

 

[nickdnz]

I know this sounds terrible, but it was the most entertaining post match interview ever. Was it helpful? No. Was it constructive? No. Was it very entertaining? Yes.

I think he has been rightly criticized for some of the crap he's spouted out with in the past, but if someone doesn't wish to give out their point of views, that's the best way not to do it, in a comical and bizzar interview.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've even seen it posted in non-rugby places ("The Daily What") so he certainly got his point across (well - if his point was to look like a ****. Noone has picked up on the not-trying-to-offend-being-purposely-vague etc. )

 

[Dougydeluxe]

Not sure if any of you guys follow the NFL, but they have started implementing the same type of thing for interviews. If you want to see what Venter could have done, just go check out Randy Moss (I think). They are far more over the top and completly focused on the fact that they hate the finds, but it wont stop them.

 

[Teh Mite]

aracens director of rugby Brendan Venter insists his bizarre interview following his side's loss to Racing Metro was meant as a joke.
The South African, who is stepping down from his role at the Aviva Premiership club in January, simply agreed and repeated each question he was asked on Sky Sports following the 25-21 Heineken Cup loss.
The video has become a massive hit on YouTube, though European Rugby Cup (ERC) officials failed to see the funny side of things.
To see the video in full click HERE
They have warned Venter not repeat his actions after the return fixture against the Top 14 side in France on Friday night, live on Sky Sports HD3/3.
Inspired

The Sarries boss, who was inspired by a viewing of the satirical film 'Mike Bassett: England Manager', is adamant he never meant to offend anyone.
"We watched it (the Mike Bassett movie) on a trip to Gloucester a couple of weeks before. It was very funny," he told Sky Sports HD.
"We were just having a chat and I said 'that's the way to do an interview'. The guys said 'why don't you do it like that?' I said 'okay, I will'.
"Everybody has seen it for what it was - a joke. It wasn't meant to offend anybody.
"I do respect them (ERC). I wouldn't want to offend them deliberately, so I definitely wouldn't do it again."
As for the upcoming game against Racing Metro, Venter has called on Saracens to keep on fighting in Europe despite propping up the rest in Pool Two with just two points to their name.
"We do try and win every game we play and there is a mathematical chance (of qualifying)," he added.
"We would like to beat Racing Metro in France; it is a great challenge for us."


http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12321_6582244,00.html