Scotland How do we turn this around ?

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Both. Although we weren't taught to hit a player hard, was all about wrapping your arms around them to tackle them

wow that sums it up we wern't allowed to play contact rugby at all

 

[Pockets]

So? I grew up in a fairly rugby-loving part of the world and everything in primary school was touch. It makes sense; it's safer and otherwise you just end up with kids who are still waiting for a growth spurt being put off the game early.

 

[Amiga500]

So? I grew up in a fairly rugby-loving part of the world and everything in primary school was touch. It makes sense; it's safer and otherwise you just end up with kids who are still waiting for a growth spurt being put off the game early.

+1

Perfect sense.

Otherwise you develop a load of fellas who were strong runners once... but as their size advantage decreases with age they become limited players who can't pass, can't see space and can't bring others into the game.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

So? I grew up in a fairly rugby-loving part of the world and everything in primary school was touch. It makes sense; it's safer and otherwise you just end up with kids who are still waiting for a growth spurt being put off the game early.

or what i should have add it is that if he played tag we only played it like one or twice per year, thats needs to change to atleast a monthly thing

 

[Peat]

Scotland's whole structure does need an overhaul, its true, but I'd say the national team could easily outperform what it's been doing. They did under Andy Robinson, not exactly a doyen of international coaching, its under Johnson that they've become truly rancid. If Vern Cotter can at least make their competitive and dig out a few wins for them, it's a step towards commanding a better view in the public eye and persuading more kids they want to play rugby.

If I was Cotter, my priorities would be

a) Defence
b) Fitness
c) Scrum
d) A reliable goal kicker

Get those four things sorted, and Scotland at least become difficult to beat again. That's always the starting point.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Scotland's whole structure does need an overhaul, its true, but I'd say the national team could easily outperform what it's been doing. They did under Andy Robinson, not exactly a doyen of international coaching, its under Johnson that they've become truly rancid. If Vern Cotter can at least make their competitive and dig out a few wins for them, it's a step towards commanding a better view in the public eye and persuading more kids they want to play rugby.

If I was Cotter, my priorities would be

a) Defence
b) Fitness
c) Scrum
d) A reliable goal kicker

Get those four things sorted, and Scotland at least become difficult to beat again. That's always the starting point.

i'd change d with set pieces which scotland do need to fix but a kicker isn't a problem like Laidlaw can kick really well the last tournament he just couldn't missed but the team was out formed aswell as him or we could give stuart hogg the kicking duties

 

[KAPman]

First of all, on the playing side, when Vern Cotter comes in he needs to be the man in charge, and needs to be allowed to have his own coaching team around him. It will take time, but I think he is skilled enough to challenge the players and hopefully improve them enough to be in with a good chance of at least the quarter finals of the next world cup. I don't think there will be a huge change in results at the next 6 nations, but quarter finals at the world cup is defiantly achievable.

As for the rest of it, the SRU need to have a hard look at themselves and also why the results and performances on the pith were not up to scratch in the 6 nations this year. They need to stop making these statements 'we're going to aim to win the next world cup, and we're going to win a grand slam by 2016'. Frankly we're hugely short of that. And also they need to drop this foreign recruit policy of 3 year residency rule, cause frankly I think it's poaching and not helpful for our already limited resources in developing players good enough for international rugby. As much as Im ok with non-scots playing for us, if they're qualified to, and good enough, Id rather see proud Scottish boys in those blue jerseys giving their all for their country.
The SRU need to look at the grassroots. Look to promote the game more in schools and in mini-rugby, set the bar higher for the skill levels, and try and help the mental attitude being that pulling on that blue jersey for the first time is the pinnacle of your career. We need young players, when they reach the pro teams to be determined and to have a good enough skill-set to be in with a chance of competing at top level rugby. A 3rd pro team would also help. The SRU need to look at getting funds together within the next 5 years to put together a 3rd pro team, as it would massively help the development of players and the depth of the national team

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

First of all, on the playing side, when Vern Cotter comes in he needs to be the man in charge, and needs to be allowed to have his own coaching team around him. It will take time, but I think he is skilled enough to challenge the players and hopefully improve them enough to be in with a good chance of at least the quarter finals of the next world cup. I don't think there will be a huge change in results at the next 6 nations, but quarter finals at the world cup is defiantly achievable.

As for the rest of it, the SRU need to have a hard look at themselves and also why the results and performances on the pith were not up to scratch in the 6 nations this year. They need to stop making these statements 'we're going to aim to win the next world cup, and we're going to win a grand slam by 2016'. Frankly we're hugely short of that. And also they need to drop this foreign recruit policy of 3 year residency rule, cause frankly I think it's poaching and not helpful for our already limited resources in developing players good enough for international rugby. As much as Im ok with non-scots playing for us, if they're qualified to, and good enough, Id rather see proud Scottish boys in those blue jerseys giving their all for their country.
The SRU need to look at the grassroots. Look to promote the game more in schools and in mini-rugby, set the bar higher for the skill levels, and try and help the mental attitude being that pulling on that blue jersey for the first time is the pinnacle of your career. We need young players, when they reach the pro teams to be determined and to have a good enough skill-set to be in with a chance of competing at top level rugby. A 3rd pro team would also help. The SRU need to look at getting funds together within the next 5 years to put together a 3rd pro team, as it would massively help the development of players and the depth of the national team

and it will give the youngsters a head up of a better chance to reach professional rugby and pro 12 rugby to boost they're confidence so more players can have a better opportunity to reach professional rugby a huge help it would be

 

[Amiga500]

A 3rd pro team would also help.

Yep. Ultimately you learn best from training with, playing with and playing against better players.

OK, so the team might not do much for 3, 4, 5 years - but if the SRU sticks at it, gradually the players will learn from their mistakes, and the overall player pool will strengthen.

 

[KAPman]

Yeah, the other thing I missed, which is important in the youth development, is to install a winning mentality, a never say die attitude. And the way you do that is learning from your mistakes when you lose, and more importantly giving it your all, and completely believing in yourself. I thought that was lacking for us a lot this 6 nations, especially against Ireland, England and Wales. Against Ireland and England after conceding tries the belief evaporated from the team, and after Hogg's red card, the belief and will evaporated.
And totally agree with you, but the problem is that the SRU, over the past 15 years, have been so focused on the financial side, proved to have spent money on the wrong things, and not looking into the actual rugby enough, which is their flaw. They need to get their heads down to earth, and work backwards to move our game forwards

 

[KAPman]

Scotland's whole structure does need an overhaul, its true, but I'd say the national team could easily outperform what it's been doing. They did under Andy Robinson, not exactly a doyen of international coaching, its under Johnson that they've become truly rancid. If Vern Cotter can at least make their competitive and dig out a few wins for them, it's a step towards commanding a better view in the public eye and persuading more kids they want to play rugby.

If I was Cotter, my priorities would be

a) Defence
b) Fitness
c) Scrum
d) A reliable goal kicker

Get those four things sorted, and Scotland at least become difficult to beat again. That's always the starting point.

From the game point of view, if I were Vern Cottor, my priority would be working on the management at the breakdown, cause above the line out and the scrums, that has what has stuck out to me about Scotland, is their poor management at the breakdown and struggle to win quick ball. The reason is that when a carrier is tackled and goes to ground there is either only one fellow player supporting him at the breakdown, or if a player makes a clean break and gets tackled, the rest of the team are there 4 seconds after he hits the ground, and thats too slow. It gives the defence too much time to reorganise.
Compare that to the way Ireland support players reach the breakdown. With Ireland, when a player gets tackled to ground there are at least 2 or 3 fellow Irishmen rushing to the breakdown asap to make the ball quick and presentable, and with that you gain a lot of momentum because the defence is constantly on the move, you keep up the continuity and gaps start appearing that way

 

[LSFC C49]

Edinburgh and Glasgow presents far too small a pool to choose an elite International squad from, half that of Ireland and Wales and 1/6th of England, and only on a par with Italy. The potential in the Scottish Premiership just isn't supported financially to enable player development to progress. We constantly see the SP teams playing their hearts out but ultimately not able to hold their own against the English, Welsh and Irish Tier 2 leagues in the B&I each year. The Greene King IPA Championship is peppered with Scottish qualified players who have left these teams and travelled South to play a higher level of Rugby and earn a living. We have a number of young Scots down in Richmond at London Scottish who have represented Scotland from youth through U21. Our young lock Tommy Spinks just captained the U21's Scottish team in the 6 Nations. I think that the SRU could do a lot worse than recognise that the top half of the GKC houses many Scots getting professional training & development and quality game time week in week out and consider us as an Elite Squad source.

 

[Robespierre]

Far too many first fifteen players come from the central belt private schools. We need to start an initiative to get kids from all parts of the country, rich or poor, to start participating in rugby. The playing numbers are just too small, and there's no money in the game. We need to push ahead with the idea of selling the two professional teams and setting up a third in the north-east. This would give Rugby lovers like me, who live in the north, an opportunity to go and watch pro rugby week in, week out.
We also need to move the Sevens to the end of summer in order to allow players to prepare for the new season.
It would also help if we stopped spending extortionate amounts of money on second rate foreigners.

Coming up with a proper song to sing at Murrayfield aside from the national anthem wouldn't go amiss either.

 

[Robespierre]

.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Far too many first fifteen players come from the central belt private schools. We need to start an initiative to get kids from all parts of the country, rich or poor, to start participating in rugby. The playing numbers are just too small, and there's no money in the game. We need to push ahead with the idea of selling the two professional teams and setting up a third in the north-east. This would give Rugby lovers like me, who live in the north, an opportunity to go and watch pro rugby week in, week out.
We also need to move the Sevens to the end of summer in order to allow players to prepare for the new season.
It would also help if we stopped spending extortionate amounts of money on second rate foreigners.

Coming up with a proper song to sing at Murrayfield aside from the national anthem wouldn't go amiss either.

welcome to the forum mate

 

[McTallshort]

Ive said this before and been shouted down for it but instead of investing money into souless franchies like you have now why not make the top 8 clubs semi pro with youth stuctures etc? It will give a better oppotunity to more players who can play at least part time and if they are any good they could get full time contracts in England/Wales/Ireland/France because thats the big thing for me. Scotland is short of players and by themselves they cannot support enough full time teams to give players a chance but going down the semi pro route will improve the club game in the borders and morehe players could move on to full time rugby yes they will not be playing in Scotland for their domestic rugby but the National side will hopefully have more players to choose from and lets be honest its better than searching high and low for Englishmen with Scottish Grandparents.


Oh and stick Scott Johnson on the first plane back to Aus and hope the useless long haired muppet never darkens our shores again.

 

[Pockets]

Having a pro setup at the top is pretty important, whether that's club or regional or whatever. I don't think a bunch of semi-pro guys would be a great solution because there just aren't enough spots at the pro level for them to move onto, there's only 38 top-level sides on the continent - you'd end up with fewer pros to pick from than currently.

For me what looks like a missed opportunity is the Amlin-Cup-Replacement format. If I were Scotland I'd have been pushing to make it 24 teams and have at least one extra spot for the domestic champion. Sure, the clubs would likely struggle in the same way the Italians do, but it'd be a great way of seeing who is ready to make the step up to the pro level without having to finance an entire league. (actually, looking at the British and Irish Cup results, looks like they're further behind than I thought, so maybe that's too optimistic an idea.)

 

[McTallshort]

Not if that set up is simply a franchise for overseas imports. The only realistic way Scotland can get more 17-23 year old players playing competitively is if they improve the the domestic league. Like you said results in the B&I cup were poor but they should be aiming at championship level rugby because the elite game is not only unsustainable in Scotland but does not improve any part of the national team.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

i would say we should let youngsters learn the basic attacking movement which the international team is lacking off. rugby in scotland is lacking interest in rugby because when i was at primary school the teachers make rugby sound like it a thing in life which we should all avoid because its dangerous. as we all know rugby is not dangerous when its played properly and its not like were going teach the youngsters how to tip tackle or dump tackle, atleast give them the basic's in tackling and we should be fine btw and also the scottish female rugby team a joke. i have no idea how we can have hope to improve

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Maybe rather than wearing rugby kit the Scots could all wear kilts and put on warpaint. They could then get an obnoxious Australian to be their leader. You're halfway there