Scrum Question

[Holycow]

Hi guys, i'm new to rugby and i'm finding it hard to understant what goes on in the scrum.

Ill start here

What is meant be the thighthead locking the scrum?

 

[dullonien]

The tighthead is the one that's under the most pressure in the scrum. This is basically because his head goes between the opposition looshead and hooker, and therefore recieves pressure from both of those players, whilst the looshead only recieves pressure from the opposition tighthead. It's of course a little more complicated than this, but in a very basic form it is true to some degree. Therefore if the scrum is to go well, the tightead is the main man that determines this. If he doesn't take a backwards step then there's a good chance the rest of his pack won't either i.e. he locks the scrum.

 

[Holycow]

The tighthead is the one that's under the most pressure in the scrum. This is basically because his head goes between the opposition looshead and hooker, and therefore recieves pressure from both of those players, whilst the looshead only recieves pressure from the opposition tighthead. It's of course a little more complicated than this, but in a very basic form it is true to some degree. Therefore if the scrum is to go well, the tightead is the main man that determines this. If he doesn't take a backwards step then there's a good chance the rest of his pack won't either i.e. he locks the scrum.

Thanks dullonien, so for the tighthead to be successful he has to atleast hold or drive the oppisition loosehead and hooker back.

Whats the hookers roll in the scrum besides hooking the ball back.

 

[dullonien]

Not really sure the hooker does much hooking anymore considering the ball is generally fed straight into the second row's feet lol.

He of course adds his power to the scrum along with the two props in the front row (and the rest of the pack behind them). A hookers role is often ignored to a large degree at scrum time, but evidence of his value can be seen on occasion. Speaking from a Welsh perspective, Hibbard is generally regarded as the best scrummaging hooker playing in Wales, and he has certainly helped towards the dominance of the Ospreys scrum in recent months. Gareth Williams at the Blues is a small hooker, and his lack of power doesn't help the Blues scrum when they encounter strong opposition, as can be seen in recent clashes v Northampton, and is one of the reasons he's always struggled internationally.

 

[Holycow]

Know all about the ospreys power being a munster man

are all three props responsible for the engagement or dies one make the call when to go.

 

[dullonien]

I'm not entirely sure about that. Of course, they are meant to wait untill the referee calles 'engage', but we all know they try and second guess to get in there first (in a similar way sprinters attempt to time the gun). I think it may be the hookers responsibility as to when to engage, as he is the one that links the scrum. He's often the one that stands up if he's not happy about anything such as the size of the gap etc.

 

[lucky number 7]

Hi I am killian and I have been playing for 12 years...and I have still no ******* clue what goes on in the scrum...

(apparently its better we or the ref dont know :/ )

 

[Holycow]

Hi I am killian and I have been playing for 12 years...and I have still no ******* clue what goes on in the scrum...

(apparently its better we or the ref dont know :/ )

Heard Paul Wallace on tv a couple of weeks ago and he was saying that half the time he can't see what's going on in the scrum and refs seem to side with the team in control of the game.

 

[BigJoe78]

I have been a front row player for nearly 20 years so hopefully can answer some of your questions.

for the engagement we are waiting on the ref but its all in timing and trying to pre-empt the call to gain the advantage, obviously you cant call this as it would be pretty obvious to the ref you are going early therefore its lead physically. in most cases the hooker begins the engagement and as he is the central point of the scrum this automatically brings the porops in as well. once engaged again its usuall the hooker verbally calls the set and drive (or other variants "tight" "squeeze" etc, etc). there are variances some props lead the engage and there are differences between your own and opposing put ins and how they effect how the front row play.

In terms of tightheads and looseheads the easiest way to explain it is that the tighthead is the "destuctive" role - in either his or the other teams put in he wants to spoil the other teams loosehead and hookers chance of winning the ball, and nullifying there drive
The loosehead is "contructive" on his own put in - providing a clear view and channel for his hooker and destructive on the oppostion put in.

 

[Teh Mite]

"A tighthead" also refers to when the non-feeding side successfully contests and comes out of the scrum with the ball. Just to make it extra confusing!

 

[BigJoe78]

the two are incomparable when it comes to the scrum and i say that as a player and fan of both codes

 

[Holycow]

Do the back row put much in to the push?

 

[Feicarsinn]

That's an interesting point actually. Some back rows stay bound and push but others will come loose early in order to close down the fringes. Leinster have adopted the former tactic with good results this season. You gain power in the scrum, but you are more vulnerable to a break from the Scrum half.

 

[lucky number 7]

On the subject of Backrow giving the shove, most will also add their weight and alot of power to the hit but depending on the situation eg. whether they are trying to turn over the ball or trying to get loose on the 8 they will adjust accordingly .. personally I do give a big shove for the whole scrum unless the 8 is a fast one where then the flankers have to break and get outside him and try turn him back inside to your 8 .

 

[Holycow]

What is the rule regarding where the LH and TH can bind.

My understanding is they bind on the shirt and cant touch the arm of the oppisition.

 

[nickdnz]

What is the rule regarding where the LH and TH can bind.

My understanding is they bind on the shirt and cant touch the arm of the oppisition.

You cannot interfare with the opposing props bind. You can hold onto the sholder and near the armpit, but if you bind to too close to the sholder you'll push awkwardly and if you bind too far down the opposing props jersey, you will find the scrum will turn or loose power. As a prop, it's pretty difficult to describe exactly what you're doing. The best way to work it out, is get 5 mates and try to put together a basic 3-3 scrum. You find how much technique is actually involved.

 

[smartcooky]

What is the rule regarding where the LH and TH can bind. My understanding is they bind on the shirt and cant touch the arm of the oppisition.

<div style="border: 2px solid black; padding: 10px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 240); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">LAW 20.3 BINDING IN THE SCRUM

DEFINITIONS
When a player binds on a team-mate that player must use the whole arm from hand to shoulder to grasp the team-mate’s body at or below the level of the armpit. Placing only a hand on another player is not satisfactory binding.

(c) Binding by loose head props. A loose head prop must bind on the opposing tight head prop by placing the left arm inside the right arm of the tight head and gripping the tight head prop’s jersey on the back or side. The loose head prop must not grip the chest, arm, sleeve or collar of the opposition tight head prop. The loose head prop must not exert any downward pressure.
Sanction: Penalty kick.

(d)Binding by tight head props. A tight head prop must bind on the opposing loose head prop by placing the right arm outside the left upper arm of the opposing loose head prop. The tight head prop must grip the loose head prop’s jersey with the right hand only on the back or side. The tight head prop must not grip the chest, arm, sleeve or collar of the opposition loose head prop. The tight head prop must not exert any downward pressure.
Sanction: Penalty kick</div>

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Must be bloody hard to get a decent bind on in these days of skin tight shirts
Should make all props shirts have a patch of baggier material under the armpit

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Must be bloody hard to get a decent bind on in these days of skin tight shirts
Should make all props shirts have a patch of baggier material under the armpit

Or ban tight fitted shirts!

 

[Teh Mite]

Or ban tight fitted shirts!

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