Springbok EOTY Tour Squad

[TRF_stormer2010]

What are the chances Carr will be called up ? We have only just got hold of him!

realise someone mentioned Ashley Johnson earlier on to play Hooker. He's okay at hooker but arrows aren't quite there yet and Brits is on fire this season.

It'd take more injuries at the backrow. Thinking on all our injured and currently selected players he seems to me to be the next in line.. I don't think Chris Cloete is on AC's radar.

Out
Vermeulen
Whiteley
Jaco Kriel
Kwagga Smith
JL du Preez
Marcel Coetzee

Accounted for
Siya Kolisi
Dan du Preez
Oupa Mohoje
Usair Cassiem

Since I don't think either of Cloete or Ruan Ackermann is on ACs radar my bet would be Carr would be next in line.

On hooker. I have seen Brits seems to be playing like a jags teenager but TBH I am not overly concerned here as I doubt third choice hooker will come into play on tour. My concern is more looking ahead and planning for a 2019 with an injured Marx. Time will tell but I think our back up will come from one of the Sharks' two young hookers (if I can call 25 and 26 young).

 

[SomeOke]

In my opinion 2019 is going to be one world cup too soon no matter what we do. Anything can happen obviously but history is very against us when you look at the mold of team that usually wins world cups, versus what we have at the moment. I just think we lack experience/identity and world class players. I think our pack is close but our backs are miles away.

 

[TRF_heineken]

In my opinion 2019 is going to be one world cup too soon no matter what we do. Anything can happen obviously but history is very against us when you look at the mold of team that usually wins world cups, versus what we have at the moment. I just think we lack experience/identity and world class players. I think our pack is close but our backs are miles away.

You might be right, but then again, we've had this same discussion ahead of a few World Cups before. And we usually talk like this 2 years before the World Cup. And that is due to the cycle of players coming in and going out. I think by 2019, a lot of our backs will be a lot more experienced than they are now. If we look at Jan Serfontein for example, he's now on 35 caps. By 2019, he'll most probably be over the 50 cap mark, and will definitely be a lot more experienced and valuable.

 

[mdaclarke]

I think the Springboks are looking strong for the World Cup. I can see them winning the whole thing.

 

[SomeOke]

You might be right, but then again, we've had this same discussion ahead of a few World Cups before. And we usually talk like this 2 years before the World Cup. And that is due to the cycle of players coming in and going out. I think by 2019, a lot of our backs will be a lot more experienced than they are now. If we look at Jan Serfontein for example, he's now on 35 caps. By 2019, he'll most probably be over the 50 cap mark, and will definitely be a lot more experienced and valuable.

Fair enough but you've cited our most experienced back as your example, in contract our 9,11,14,15 have all started their springbok careers this year. I'd absolutely love it if we can break the trend don't get me wrong. I just feel like Eng/Ireland/NZ and even Australia are just far better prepared and in a better position to win it, than we can be.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Fair enough but you've cited our most experienced back as your example, in contract our 9,11,14,15 have all started their springbok careers this year. I'd absolutely love it if we can break the trend don't get me wrong. I just feel like Eng/Ireland/NZ and even Australia are just far better prepared and in a better position to win it, than we can be.

Well, we must always mix youth with experience. HM relied more on experience than youth, and was criticized for it. I think a guy like Gelant will soon be our no. 1 choice at fullback, and he, just like Willie Le Roux, will give the opposition a lot of problems. But we can't just rush a guy like Gelant into the team, he knows his game needs some work in certain areas. And we all know the dreaded 2nd-year syndrome with players in SA. So we all need to take a step back and see how these guys make the step up.

 

[SomeOke]

I'm also just looking at the age of our players and jumping them up 6 years really puts us in a much better space.
Eben/PSDT/Kitsoff/DDA - 31
Jan Serfontein/Rob du Preez - 30
Wilcow Louw/Marx/Jesse Kriel/RJVR /Lukanhyo AM/Pollard- 29
Jean luc du Preez/Dan du Preez/Ox Nche /Gelant/Thomas du Toit- 28
Sbu Nkosi - 27
Curwin Bosch - 26
Damian Willemse -25


Now these are all players either in or near Springbok contention, some are good enough now, and some need some development, but either way these guys basically have 6 years to grow and in my opinion every player I mentioned has the potential to be world class. They can work on their weaknesses and hopefully get some international experience and learn the hard lessons they need to learn within the next 6 years.

In contrast expecting a lot of these guys (baring Serfontein and Etzebeth) to basically go through their international growing pains over the next two years, and have the composure and skill-set necessarily to win the world cup is a much harder ask.

I'm not saying we can't do it because we definitely can, but a team like NZ and England are already in the final phase of their prep, they have the spine of their 2019 team, and are now developing depth as much as possible (Eddie Jones has already said he will be playing second string teams this November, and NZ have arguably been doing that in the RC). At best I'd say we are in the starting phase of our prep, last year doesn't count for how woeful we were so I'd say we're basically a year into it.

Not trying to be a negative Nancy, and I will be shouting for us until my voice goes hoarse (and you only really have to win 4 big games in the WC to win it, which means statistically almost anything could happen), but I will be managing my expectations and hoping for 2023.

 

[will311293]

Just watched Kwagga Smith in the BaBas vs Nz.... he's some player. to get MOTM on the losing side vs All Blacks is ridiculous

 

[George Ford]

https://www.alloutrugby.com/vermeulen-im-ready/

Would like to hear everyone's opinion on this. I was a huge fan of him, but feel he lost a bit of it after the World Cup. Didn't help his case in the way he spoke out against the Springbok management last year and a part of me feels him being overlooked is justified. Yet, with Whiteley, Kriel & now JL Du Preez out, he can certainly contribute and add some much needed experience. Although it would be unfair towards other guys like Carr, Dan Du Preez.

Tough cookie.

 

[SomeOke]

https://www.alloutrugby.com/vermeulen-im-ready/

Would like to hear everyone's opinion on this. I was a huge fan of him, but feel he lost a bit of it after the World Cup. Didn't help his case in the way he spoke out against the Springbok management last year and a part of me feels him being overlooked is justified. Yet, with Whiteley, Kriel & now JL Du Preez out, he can certainly contribute and add some much needed experience. Although it would be unfair towards other guys like Carr, Dan Du Preez.

Tough cookie.

Love Duane, great player, definitely world class. That said if you really care about the 2019 world cup come back to South Africa. It's impossible to assess how good/fit an overseas based player is sometimes, and often when we select our older overseas based players they disappoint.

I have no doubt if he came back to a South African super rugby side next year and had a good season he would make the side handily. Players absolutely have a right to go make money and I don't begrudge them that. That said by moving over-seas you are implicitly stating that Bok duty is a secondary concern, because the coaches can no longer assess you at Super Rugby standard. Harsh but that's the way it goes.

Anyway my opinion has already been stated that we should be looking to 2023 haha.

 

[AM_Bokke]

^^^
That's how I feel. Euro Club rugby and SH test rugby are just not a good match. Players playing in Europe shouldn't really be considered for Bok selection at all. There is no real way to manage the player's fitness and welfare. Also, their season would never end.

Players can always come back to SA though. No judgement. It just doesn't work.