State of the game

[Plumba]

As someone who played for 25 years, and watches games avidly now I cannot keep quiet any longer. Our sport is in a bad way, and in my opinion changes must be made. My wishlist is simple, change the laws to force scrum halves to put the ball into the hookers, not simply thread it directly through the legs of the props. Then, outlaw this ludicrous assisted lifting in line outs, absolutely no need for it and it used to be an offence. Next, discipline in line outs, straight lines and none of this dancing about we get now. Tackles to be only made below waist height, taking the man down but allowing the game to flow through offloads, not allowing these ridiculous suffocating wrap around efforts we see now. A fifteen second time limit for all place kicks. And stop the clock when scrums are being set until the ball goes in. Ours is the best and most entertaining sport around but it is slowly degenerating and needs urgent attention.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Agree on scrum feeds but not much else. I don't think the 6N games have all been particularly high quality (excluding Ireland vs France), but they are ticking along at a decent pace with the new emphasis on keeping the game going.

We are seeing stupid amounts of metres made in many games and increasing variety in attacking options, less kick tennis and more running it out from deep.

 

[Hofnar]

Then, outlaw this ludicrous assisted lifting in line outs, absolutely no need for it and it used to be an offence.

The set piece would be a lot more boring. I think that having your jumpers being lifted allows more strategy/techniques at the lineout than people just standing in a line and jumping, slapping.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

As someone who played for 25 years, and watches games avidly now I cannot keep quiet any longer. Our sport is in a bad way, and in my opinion changes must be made. My wishlist is simple, change the laws to force scrum halves to put the ball into the hookers, not simply thread it directly through the legs of the props. Then, outlaw this ludicrous assisted lifting in line outs, absolutely no need for it and it used to be an offence. Next, discipline in line outs, straight lines and none of this dancing about we get now. Tackles to be only made below waist height, taking the man down but allowing the game to flow through offloads, not allowing these ridiculous suffocating wrap around efforts we see now. A fifteen second time limit for all place kicks. And stop the clock when scrums are being set until the ball goes in. Ours is the best and most entertaining sport around but it is slowly degenerating and needs urgent attention.

I've also played for 25 years but disagree with a lot of what you say. It's mostly outdated commentary really.

 

[duncanb]

The laws have said for a long while the ball ie. Only part of it has to be on the mark ( Centre line) hooking as an art form disappeared at the beginning of pro era.
Lifting has made line-out better than stupid farse it was before with all tapped down and everyone falling on ball.
Tackle should be nipple level IMHO.
All of us at community level play a different game to tv rugby of course where these issues don't occur.
First game 1977 last game ( ref) 2021.
60+ is to old.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

the only one i agree with is a time limit on setting of scrums/lineouts, if one team is ready and the other isn;t then free kick to that team and play on

I was a hooker and crooked feed bug me...but it down the list of things that are actually hurting the game

 

[Saintjay]

Line outs without jumping were a farce. Line out jumping, throwing in, the tactical aspect of it especially in the pro game is in my view superb. I jump in the line out and no way near pro level but it's not easy to get right. It's a bloody brilliant feeling when you get it right. Especially if you are playing against a decent opposition.

What you are describing is rugby as it was in the 1980's and when you watch those 5 nations games now they were not that great really. Are Northampton Saints better to watch now than the 80's - 90's. Yes for me by a very long way. The skill level, tactics, professionalism are far above the amateur era.

 

[Lancashire Nick]

I agree witht he feeding in the scrum. A central put-in would make it more of a contest.

I think that the modern lineout is far cleaner, and better for the game, than the old style non-lifting style. The opportunity for moves off the lineout has increased, and it now forms a fascinating part of the game.

Tackling below the waist would lead to many injuries from knees to the face/head, so that's a "no" from me. Nipple to belly button is ideal.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Super Rugby Pacific announces law innovations for 2023 season

super.rugby

• The referee will put a stopwatch shot clock on kickers who will have 90 seconds to kick a conversion from the time a try is awarded, and 60 seconds for penalties, from the time the referee signals a shot at goal.

• Match officials will expect lineouts and scrums to be formed within 30 seconds of the respective marks being set, and the ball to be used within 5 seconds of a ruck being formed.

• TMOs only 'interrupt' play to investigate serious, clear and obvious incidents of dangerous play missed by the Match Official team.

• Referees can utilise the TMO to make a Yellow Card decision, but any extended TMO video reviews will take place once the player has left the field, not before the Yellow Card is issued.

• The TMO will have 8 minutes to either uphold a 10-minute Yellow Card decision or upgrade it to a 20-minute Red Card, in which case the player will not return to the field, but can still be replaced.

• Referees will now also have the power to issue a full Red Card for deliberate foul play, in which case the player will not return to the field and cannot be replaced.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Agree on scrum feeds but not much else. I don't think the 6N games have all been particularly high quality (excluding Ireland vs France), but they are ticking along at a decent pace with the new emphasis on keeping the game going.

We are seeing stupid amounts of metres made in many games and increasing variety in attacking options, less kick tennis and more running it out from deep.

What actually has changed with this new emphasis? No more water breaks?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Line outs without jumping were a farce. Line out jumping, throwing in, the tactical aspect of it especially in the pro game is in my view superb. I jump in the line out and no way near pro level but it's not easy to get right. It's a bloody brilliant feeling when you get it right. Especially if you are playing against a decent opposition.

What you are describing is rugby as it was in the 1980's and when you watch those 5 nations games now they were not that great really. Are Northampton Saints better to watch now than the 80's - 90's. Yes for me by a very long way. The skill level, tactics, professionalism are far above the amateur era.

The skill level in New Zealand has gone down but yeah northern hemisphere didn't used to know how to pass or catch.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The problem with trying to speed up play or stop breaks in play is that you can't account for cheating teams like South Africa that will just fake an injury to have a break instead.

You can't do anything about that without risking player safety. How many times do players 'stay down' at key moments to extend a break in play to re-group. How do you stop that.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

true, hopefully those examples will be made even more obvious if other stoppages become shorter

 

[dullonien]

The problem with trying to speed up play or stop breaks in play is that you can't account for cheating teams like South Africa that will just fake an injury to have a break instead.

You can't do anything about that without risking player safety. How many times do players 'stay down' at key moments to extend a break in play to re-group. How do you stop that.

The only way I can think of to combat that is for the 'injured' player to leave the field then return during the next stop in play, like football.

However, that may put pressure on genuinely injured players to play on without getting medical treatment/assessment because it means their side would be down a man for the next phase which could cost their side!

So probably no easy solution to what appears to be a clear tactic by some sides.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

What actually has changed with this new emphasis? No more water breaks?

Plus quicker scrums (I think within 1 minute), penalty kicks reduced to 60 sec limit from 90 and no huddling and pausing at lineouts. You can see the refs being particularly firm on this last one that was getting stupid. I cant find the link I posted previously to the article.

It's too early to tell but I think this is all going to be a big bonus for sides whose game is based around up tempo play by more mobile/fitter players. So NZ, Ire, Scot, Pumas & Oz get assistance and England, Boks and France perhaps need to rethink tactics or pack selection.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I bet games against teams like South Africa will still have tons of breaks though. They will find ways as these changes are very light touch.

I remember the England game vs South Africa when nearly every play a SA player went down to get a rest.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I bet games against teams like South Africa will still have tons of breaks though. They will find ways as these changes are very light touch.

I remember the England game vs South Africa when nearly every play a SA player went down to get a rest.

What is the actual sanction for time wasting , do you know? And, despite that, how are reds going to judge when someone isn't actually injured. I think you are right it won't stop the boks pretending to be injured every half a second

 

[duncanb]

What is the actual sanction for time wasting , do you know? And, despite that, how are reds going to judge when someone isn't actually injured. I think you are right it won't stop the boks pretending to be injured every half a second

As the Foley incident it's a free kick.
Injury is Injury whoever refs COULD
require playon if certain circumstances are met.
EG.not front row player at scrum.
Injury is not in immediate area.
Remember alot of times when yellowcard involved scrums happen with a back in the back row.
Someone else feeds scrum.
A different kicker is used.
Someone else throws into line-out.
The magic spray break cannot be eradicated but could be managed a tad differently.
Of course more props will fall to ground however lol.

 

[miccloarch]

force scrum halves to put the ball into the hookers, not simply thread it directly through the legs of the props.

Long overdue.

stop the clock when scrums are being set until the ball goes in.

Yes please.

A fifteen second time limit for all place kicks.

15-20 seconds for conversions but penalties should be at least 30 seconds. Alternately just stop the clock and leave the current time limit of 60-90 whatever it is.

 

[tirawleybaron]

1. 5 subs - can have 8 but only use 5
2. Limit scrum and lineout set up to 30 seconds
3. Limit scrum penalties to blatant foul play only, all others are to be free kicks
4. Move offside line to 10m behind scrum and lineout
5. Scrums only for knock on, not allowed as a penalty or Mark option
6. Maul penalties only awarded before 1stoppage, reduced to free kicks after.