Statistics

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Listen, i don't have all the answers and even my position on this is set in stone. But i know the current state of events is ridiculous.

You have one player, lets call him X to make it generic, saying his home is A, feeling Aish (as in the sense of belonging), he has the A's nationality, A's citizenship, A's passport, half his family plays for A's national team... but he decides to play for B because he gets more money that way.
These are not made up theoretical examples but concrete, tangible down to earth ones.
And the ones mentioned in Stormer's post are Tier 1. Trust me, you look at tier 2/3 and it probably gets worse.


I think that is not only fundamentally wrong, but it just widens the gap between Tier 1 and the rest, which is exactly the opposite of what we want.

You have Zimbabwean players (born and raised) who's dream is to play for the Springboks. That is a disaster.
I know some will say "what you expect? For him to play for Zimbabwe?". YES!!! Bloody hell yes.
If you tell me that's unrealistic I will tell you to look at Uruguay.

But again, the difference lies in what we believe the purpose of nation vs nation competitions should be about.
I know for one that if this trend continues i will certainly lose interest, not in the sport but in international competitions.
If i want to see the teams with the deepest pockets battle it out i'll watch the TOP 14 (which i do, nothing wrong with that).

 

[Leinster Fan]

Not about McGrath's example (i don't know the specifics), but that is, exactly, the quid. You see it as something good. I see that as THE problem.
You seem to think that national teams should be out there "offering opportunites" to others that come from what you deem to be lesser teams.
Others, myself included, do not.

I mean, look at what rugby's become. You have people like Manu Tuilagi who, at 28 years of age and after living over half his life in the UK says, and i quote "England is very special to me, of course, but my heart and home is still Samoa.".
But hey, the fact that he stayed illegally on a holiday visa for 6 years is irrelevant. He earns more money playing for England and when he was about to get deported Leicester and the RFU stepped in and stop him from being sent to Apia.
Apparently rich nations "offering opportunities", financial ones mainly, to people from poorer nations, is what many want.

Established, rich, Tier one nations, "offering (financial) opportunities" to people from poorer and less developed rugby nations.
The same 6/7 nations fighting for the ***le again and again and again,... while beating 95% of non tier 1 nations by 30 points or more. That's what we all want to see, right? A great concentration of talent in a minute number f teams in what we'd like to become a global sport.

I'm sure that'll do wonders for the development of the sport.

You want those to be the rules, fine, all good, but don't kid yourself by thinking that has no consequences.

EDIT:
PS: just to be absolutely clear, i am in no way saying every that all players should be born in the country they represent. That'd be silly.

My post was a lazy joke about Luke McGrath and Jamie Heaslip always coming up on these lists despite the fact that it's fairly obvious to anyone with two brain cells that they should be playing for Ireland.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Not about McGrath's example (i don't know the specifics), but that is, exactly, the quid. You see it as something good. I see that as THE problem.
You seem to think that national teams should be out there "offering opportunites" to others that come from what you deem to be lesser teams.
Others, myself included, do not.

I mean, look at what rugby's become. You have people like Manu Tuilagi who, at 28 years of age and after living over half his life in the UK says, and i quote "England is very special to me, of course, but my heart and home is still Samoa.".
But hey, the fact that he stayed illegally on a holiday visa for 6 years is irrelevant. He earns more money playing for England and when he was about to get deported Leicester and the RFU stepped in and stop him from being sent to Apia.
Apparently rich nations "offering opportunities", financial ones mainly, to people from poorer nations, is what many want.

Established, rich, Tier one nations, "offering (financial) opportunities" to people from poorer and less developed rugby nations.
The same 6/7 nations fighting for the ***le again and again and again,... while beating 95% of non tier 1 nations by 30 points or more. That's what we all want to see, right? A great concentration of talent in a minute number f teams in what we'd like to become a global sport.

I'm sure that'll do wonders for the development of the sport.

You want those to be the rules, fine, all good, but don't kid yourself by thinking that has no consequences.

EDIT:
PS: just to be absolutely clear, i am in no way saying every that all players should be born in the country they represent. That'd be silly.

My post was a lazy joke about Luke McGrath and Jamie Heaslip always coming up on these lists despite the fact that it's fairly obvious to anyone with two brain cells that they should be playing for Ireland. I don't think any of the things that you seem to think I do.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

My post was a lazy joke about Luke McGrath and Jamie Heaslip always coming up on these lists despite the fact that it's fairly obvious to anyone with two brain cells that they should be playing for Ireland.

I got that, but apparently, from that high horse of yours, you were unable to understand my post.

 

[die_mole]

Listen, i don't have all the answers and even my position on this is set in stone. But i know the current state of events is ridiculous.

You have one player, lets call him X to make it generic, saying his home is A, feeling Aish (as in the sense of belonging), he has the A's nationality, A's citizenship, A's passport, half his family plays for A's national team... but he decides to play for B because he gets more money that way.
These are not made up theoretical examples but concrete, tangible down to earth ones.
And the ones mentioned in Stormer's post are Tier 1. Trust me, you look at tier 2/3 and it probably gets worse.


I think that is not only fundamentally wrong, but it just widens the gap between Tier 1 and the rest, which is exactly the opposite of what we want.

You have Zimbabwean players (born and raised) who's dream is to play for the Springboks. That is a disaster.
I know some will say "what you expect? For him to play for Zimbabwe?". YES!!! Bloody hell yes.
If you tell me that's unrealistic I will tell you to look at Uruguay.

But again, the difference lies in what we believe the purpose of nation vs nation competitions should be about.
I know for one that if this trend continues i will certainly lose interest, not in the sport but in international competitions.
If i want to see the teams with the deepest pockets battle it out i'll watch the TOP 14 (which i do, nothing wrong with that).

tbf if you asked zimbabwean children what there dream is . . . a lot would answer to move to South Africa

 

[rugga658]

I got that, but apparently, from that high horse of yours, you were unable to understand my post.

Oofff Cruz!!!

 

[Leinster Fan]

I got that, but apparently, from that high horse of yours, you were unable to understand my post.

What didn't I understand about your post? Genuinely curious. (Don't want an argument or anything, why you're being hostile is beyond me).

I am exhausted so maybe I'm being stupid but you actually aren't making any sense to me.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Oofff Cruz!!!

Bron lost that series and left his home state for more money and success a couple years later...

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

tbf if you asked zimbabwean children what there dream is . . . a lot would answer to move to South Africa

I understand that, but i guess i didn't express myself properly because that wasn't my point.
A lot of Venezuelans dream with emigrating, but they would chop off an arm before they play for another team. Both are not mutually exclusive.

What i dont understand is, why can't they move to South Africa, play for a SR franchise and play for Zimbabwe too. Hell, why can't they move to France or England or Wales and play for Zimbabwe?
I understand they can, they just chose not to because of money.


What i wrote here i believe it applies to sport, not to other things, just to be clear.