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Stupid Question

steamdonkey

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Sorry for the dumb question but I need to settle a bet.

Can a kick-off be drop-kicked grubber style, provided it goes 10 meters? I read the IRB laws, and all it says is that it must travel 10 meters, it doesn't specify that it must be airborne. I can't imagine why someone would kick-off a worm-burner, I am just curious if it would be legal if they did.
 

markshaw

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as long as its a drop kick it doesnt matter if it is airborne or not mate
 

markshaw

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p.s you might try a grubber if its wet conditions and you want to force an error
 

smartcooky

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Sorry for the dumb question but I need to settle a bet.

Can a kick-off be drop-kicked grubber style, provided it goes 10 meters? I read the IRB laws, and all it says is that it must travel 10 meters, it doesn't specify that it must be airborne. I can't imagine why someone would kick-off a worm-burner, I am just curious if it would be legal if they did.

Its legal

If a defending player plays the ball before it reaches the 10m line... play on

If an attacking player plays the ball before it reaches the 10m line, or if the ball stops before reaching the 10m line, play stops and the receiving team have two options....

► To have the ball kicked off again, or
► To have a scrum at the centre of the half-way line and they throw in the ball.
 

cyRil

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What I want to know is when exactly did kick-offs change from place-kicks to drop-kicks? I remember Neil Jenkins used to kick matches off with a lump of sand on the ground but why/when did it switch?
 

Duckdee

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What I want to know is when exactly did kick-offs change from place-kicks to drop-kicks? I remember Neil Jenkins used to kick matches off with a lump of sand on the ground but why/when did it switch?

To speed things up?
 

smartcooky

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What I want to know is when exactly did kick-offs change from place-kicks to drop-kicks? I remember Neil Jenkins used to kick matches off with a lump of sand on the ground but why/when did it switch?

In the 1996 Laws

LAW 10. KICK-OFF


Kick-off is
(a) a place kick taken from the center of the half-way line by the team which has the right to start the match or by the opposing team on the resumption of play after the half-time interval or

(b) a drop kick taken at or from behind the center of the half-way line by the defending team after the opposing side has scored.


In the 2005 Laws

LAW 13 – KICK-OFF AND RESTART KICKS

DEFINITION
The kick-off occurs at the start of the match and the restart of the match after
half-time. Restart kicks occur after a score or a touch down.

13.1 WHERE AND HOW THE KICK-OFF IS TAKEN
(a) A team kicks off with a drop-kick which must be taken at or behind the
centre of the half-way line.


So somewhere between 1996 and 2005. I suspect it was around 1999. If I can dig up any of my old Laws books I will try to get it closer for you.
 

lynam1104

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I think it must have been 2001 or 2001 because the Heineken cup final in 2000 the kick off was a place kick.
 

smartcooky

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I have just checked my 2003 Laws. Drop kicks were used for both at that time.

There was a major rewrite of the Laws in the 200-01 season. I have a summary off all the changes, and kickoffs are not mentioned at all, so I still don't know for sure if it was before or after that.

NOTE TO ADMINS:
Could you PLEASE change the permissions on this General section of the forum so that we can edit our posts?
 

smartcooky

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OK, here is the definitive answer (thanks to OB of the referees forum for the dates of the changes)

Prior to 1992, all kick-offs and restarts were place kicks, except a restart after an unconverted try, which was a drop kick.*

In 1992, this was changed to place kicks for the kick-off and the restart after half time, and drop kicks after all scores.

In 2002, the place-kick was abandoned altogether and drop-kicks were used for all kick-offs and restarts.

There were a few reasons for changing the type of kick.

1. It was at about this time that the practice of bringing on buckets of sand to make a mound was started. This wasted a lot of time.

2. Also, in order to protect playing surfaces, kicking tees were introduced. Fine for shots at goal, but at kickoff time, the kicking tee remained on the ground unless someone took responsibility for removing it.

3. The kicking tees were becoming very tall in order to allow the kicker to get a lot of height on the ball.

* steamdonkey, sometimes a "stupid question" isn't a stupid question at all, and in researching the answer, you come across a whole raft of fascinating information. This question is no different.

There is a interesting story behind the reasons why a drop-kick was used after an unconverted try. It relates to the historical "punt out" which what was done back in the 1800's when a try was scored.

Originally, there were no points awarded for a "try". In fact, the act of touching the ball down in the in-goal is called a "try" because it allowed the attacking team "try-at-goal". The practice was that when a try was made, the attacking team would "punt out" from the point where the try was scored, to a team-mate who could mark the ball. (in those days, a mark could be taken anywhere in the field from a kick by either side, an aspect of the game that still survives in Aussie Rules and may be re-introduced back into Gaelic Football). That player would then take a place kick at goal.

The catch with this was that if the "try-at-goal" missed, the ball was "live" and play continued. If the attacking team were able to get possession they could make another try, and have another punt out. If the try at goal was successful. the defending team restarted from half way with a place kick.

This ended up with teams being stuck for long periods on defence, so they changed the procedure after an unsuccessful try-at-goal to a restart with a punt-out on half-way (later changed to a drop kick). Of course the "try-at-goal" has become what we call a "conversion" and the taking of the punt-out" from where the try was made has also survived in the fact that the conversion is taken along a line parallel to the touch line, opposite where he try was awarded.

And so began the tradition of drop kicking the restart after an unconverted try and place-kicking everything else; a tradition that remained for over 100 years before it was changed in 1992.
 

dullonien

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I remeber learning the meaning behind why a try is called a try quite a few years ago, but never in such depth. Thanks for that Smartcooky, very informative.
 

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