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The best pack

D

dreyfuss

Guest
What team has the toughest pack in RWC? England,South Africa,Argentina or New Zealand?
 
I

I Bleed Black

Guest
I have not seen a pack better than NZ's, although am interested to see the final.

Even when the ABs lost in Cardiff (not thru the forwards fault) they were pretty darn impressive and clinical and consistent.

As the irishman sitting next to me in the stands said... My god... they're like a machine!!!

I am not just saying this as I am a Kiwi.
 
M

melon

Guest
I'd say Georgia has the toughest pack.

However, the All Blacks at their best are simply unstoppable and the Springboks aren't too far behind them.
 
L

Lardinho

Guest
I think the England pack could match the Kiwis, I'm not claiming they are superior like in 2003. The Kiwis have been superior since then, but England's pack is playing like a solid unit again, would be an interesting match-up. Pretty sure the Kiwis would run away with it a little, but the tussle up front would be a hell of a show. Its not just the scrum that the Kiwi pack does impressively, its the agression at the breakdown, which is awesome.
 
D

diehardkiwi07

Guest
England pack looked pretty good against the Aussies, I believe they gave them a hard time all day up front..

So yeah besides the All Black pack england pack looks not too shabby
 
Y

YKNGR

Guest
Karl Hayman, Keven Mealamu, Greg Somerville
Ali Williams,Chris Jack
Jerry Collins, Rodney, Ricchie Mccaw


has to be the best foward pack you can imagine...-.-
Other than NZ, i really enjoyed watching the Georgian foward packs...without them there would be no rugby for them. SA and England in my opinion are totally equal. Its going to be those tiny crucial mistakes which can just give one of them a win.

Its going to be a great game...cant wait till sunday :)
 
N

nam97

Guest
Karl Hayman, Keven Mealamu, Greg Somerville
Ali Williams,Chris Jack
Jerry Collins, Rodney, Ricchie Mccaw


has to be the best foward pack you can imagine...-.-
Other than NZ, i really enjoyed watching the Georgian foward packs...without them there would be no rugby for them. SA and England in my opinion are totally equal. Its going to be those tiny crucial mistakes which can just give one of them a win.

Its going to be a great game...cant wait till sunday :)
[/b]

Yeah definitely NZ has the best pack. Hayman has destroyed Sheridan everytime they have clashed. Second best is Argentina, then England at 3.
 
B

BokMagic

Guest
For my money, the 2 most complete packs are the AB`s and the Argies. Pretty close between them, nothing really in it. Both teams have an excellent scrum, and both packs compete very well at the breakdowns. The AB pack probably has the edge in athleticism and pace, but the Argies don`t have that distinct disadvantage at the back of the lineout of the AB`s.

As for the rest, England`s got a massive scrum, a very good lineout and great commitment in terms of cleaning out at the rucks and shifting contact points, but miss out in terms of pace around the park. The Boks have certainly got the pace, the best offensive lineout in the business, and plenty of grunt at the breakdowns, but their scrum has gone backwards this year. The French pack has been hot and cold really, massive for the better part, but got completely outmuscled by the AB`s. Winning only 27% possession certainly says something about them. And the Argies cerainly beat them to the breakdowns too.

Of the so-called "minnows", Georgia was certainly impessive, as was Tonga.
 
D

danny

Guest
For my money, the 2 most complete packs are the AB`s and the Argies. Pretty close between them, nothing really in it. Both teams have an excellent scrum, and both packs compete very well at the breakdowns. The AB pack probably has the edge in athleticism and pace, but the Argies don`t have that distinct disadvantage at the back of the lineout of the AB`s.

As for the rest, England`s got a massive scrum, a very good lineout and great commitment in terms of cleaning out at the rucks and shifting contact points, but miss out in terms of pace around the park. The Boks have certainly got the pace, the best offensive lineout in the business, and plenty of grunt at the breakdowns, but their scrum has gone backwards this year. The French pack has been hot and cold really, massive for the better part, but got completely outmuscled by the AB`s. Winning only 27% possession certainly says something about them. And the Argies cerainly beat them to the breakdowns too.

Of the so-called "minnows", Georgia was certainly impessive, as was Tonga.
[/b]

South Africa and England are by far and away the best packs in the world cup.
England have the edge at scrum time and in sheer nous but i feel the Boks have a big edge in the back row, with not only the size and power you would always associate the Boks with but they are also showing some nice soft hands and offloading well in the tackle.The influence of Eddie Jones coming through I feel.
The Argies are good but just a bit too sluggish for my liking. As for the All Blacks the front row is weak apart from Hayman(and he is off to Newcastle anyway). Ali Williams is the biggest fanny to play rugby since Damien Cronin ,Jacks not bad(off to Sarries) and the back row just melted under the pressure of the Paris lights.
I know many Kiwis will have a go at me for the above comments but when the **** hit the fan the AB fowards (and backs) went into their shell and hid.
Fowards win World cups the backs decide by how much.
 
B

BokMagic

Guest
Mate, how exactly did the AB pack disappear under pressure during their QF loss? By winning 73% of the ball against a damn good French pack?

For my money, it was the general decision-making that cost them, especially in the crucial 9-10-12 channel. But definately not the forwards. Not when they got so much ball for the decision-makers to play with.

I`ll concede that I also don`t really rate Williams, I much prefer an honest, grafting second rower rather than the flashy type. But well, the AB`s prefer that athleticism. It`s worked well for them over the last 4 years, winning more than 90% of their matches during that time. And it did work in securing all of that possession against the French. Not the forwards` fault if the decision-makers at the back couldn`t use all of that ball, and that the French tackled like their lives depended on it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence in the Bok pack though. And while I agree fully with all the points you raised, well the scrum is still an area where we`ve gone backwards this year, which costs us a top 2 ranking in my book.
 
N

nam97

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
For my money, the 2 most complete packs are the AB`s and the Argies. Pretty close between them, nothing really in it. Both teams have an excellent scrum, and both packs compete very well at the breakdowns. The AB pack probably has the edge in athleticism and pace, but the Argies don`t have that distinct disadvantage at the back of the lineout of the AB`s.

As for the rest, England`s got a massive scrum, a very good lineout and great commitment in terms of cleaning out at the rucks and shifting contact points, but miss out in terms of pace around the park. The Boks have certainly got the pace, the best offensive lineout in the business, and plenty of grunt at the breakdowns, but their scrum has gone backwards this year. The French pack has been hot and cold really, massive for the better part, but got completely outmuscled by the AB`s. Winning only 27% possession certainly says something about them. And the Argies cerainly beat them to the breakdowns too.

Of the so-called "minnows", Georgia was certainly impessive, as was Tonga.
[/b]

South Africa and England are by far and away the best packs in the world cup.
England have the edge at scrum time and in sheer nous but i feel the Boks have a big edge in the back row, with not only the size and power you would always associate the Boks with but they are also showing some nice soft hands and offloading well in the tackle.The influence of Eddie Jones coming through I feel.
The Argies are good but just a bit too sluggish for my liking. As for the All Blacks the front row is weak apart from Hayman(and he is off to Newcastle anyway). Ali Williams is the biggest fanny to play rugby since Damien Cronin ,Jacks not bad(off to Sarries) and the back row just melted under the pressure of the Paris lights.
I know many Kiwis will have a go at me for the above comments but when the **** hit the fan the AB fowards (and backs) went into their shell and hid.
Fowards win World cups the backs decide by how much.
[/b][/quote]

What??? I'm pretty sure Tony Woodcock has been one of the props in NZ who's starting to nudge Hayman out of all the praise which is heaved on our pack. Woodcock and Hayman are the two best loose head and tight head props in the world respectively. I'd prefer Woodcock over Sheridan. Sheridan's brilliant, but is he really worth all that praise because he flattened fat **** Dunning?

Last time I checked it was Hayman and Woodcock pushing your pack all over the park, and every year these two do the same thing to Australia. So why is Sheridan so revered now? He's good, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather have Hayman, Woodcock, Roncero, Scelzo and Du Randt ahead of him.
 
D

danny

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
For my money, the 2 most complete packs are the AB`s and the Argies. Pretty close between them, nothing really in it. Both teams have an excellent scrum, and both packs compete very well at the breakdowns. The AB pack probably has the edge in athleticism and pace, but the Argies don`t have that distinct disadvantage at the back of the lineout of the AB`s.

As for the rest, England`s got a massive scrum, a very good lineout and great commitment in terms of cleaning out at the rucks and shifting contact points, but miss out in terms of pace around the park. The Boks have certainly got the pace, the best offensive lineout in the business, and plenty of grunt at the breakdowns, but their scrum has gone backwards this year. The French pack has been hot and cold really, massive for the better part, but got completely outmuscled by the AB`s. Winning only 27% possession certainly says something about them. And the Argies cerainly beat them to the breakdowns too.

Of the so-called "minnows", Georgia was certainly impessive, as was Tonga.
[/b]

South Africa and England are by far and away the best packs in the world cup.
England have the edge at scrum time and in sheer nous but i feel the Boks have a big edge in the back row, with not only the size and power you would always associate the Boks with but they are also showing some nice soft hands and offloading well in the tackle.The influence of Eddie Jones coming through I feel.
The Argies are good but just a bit too sluggish for my liking. As for the All Blacks the front row is weak apart from Hayman(and he is off to Newcastle anyway). Ali Williams is the biggest fanny to play rugby since Damien Cronin ,Jacks not bad(off to Sarries) and the back row just melted under the pressure of the Paris lights.
I know many Kiwis will have a go at me for the above comments but when the **** hit the fan the AB fowards (and backs) went into their shell and hid.
Fowards win World cups the backs decide by how much.
[/b][/quote]

What??? I'm pretty sure Tony Woodcock has been one of the props in NZ who's starting to nudge Hayman out of all the praise which is heaved on our pack. Woodcock and Hayman are the two best loose head and tight head props in the world respectively. I'd prefer Woodcock over Sheridan. Sheridan's brilliant, but is he really worth all that praise because he flattened fat **** Dunning?

Last time I checked it was Hayman and Woodcock pushing your pack all over the park, and every year these two do the same thing to Australia. So why is Sheridan so revered now? He's good, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather have Hayman, Woodcock, Roncero, Scelzo and Du Randt ahead of him.
[/b][/quote]

Its about an having an all round game and that is what Sheridan has. Not only is he the worlds most destructive scrummager but he has also carried for over 150 yards in this world cup.Pretty impressive eh?
Dont forget Sheridan hasnt been propping that long since his move from lock. Its only now he is maturing that we are begining to see him at his best. This is about the world cup and the AB props havent made anything like the impression the English have. As ive said before its not about what you do in the years before the cup that count its about performing under pressure. You cant deny this.
Also Roncero is a great prop. I enjoyed his few years at Gloucester and its good to see him improve year on year.
 
N

nam97

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
For my money, the 2 most complete packs are the AB`s and the Argies. Pretty close between them, nothing really in it. Both teams have an excellent scrum, and both packs compete very well at the breakdowns. The AB pack probably has the edge in athleticism and pace, but the Argies don`t have that distinct disadvantage at the back of the lineout of the AB`s.

As for the rest, England`s got a massive scrum, a very good lineout and great commitment in terms of cleaning out at the rucks and shifting contact points, but miss out in terms of pace around the park. The Boks have certainly got the pace, the best offensive lineout in the business, and plenty of grunt at the breakdowns, but their scrum has gone backwards this year. The French pack has been hot and cold really, massive for the better part, but got completely outmuscled by the AB`s. Winning only 27% possession certainly says something about them. And the Argies cerainly beat them to the breakdowns too.

Of the so-called "minnows", Georgia was certainly impessive, as was Tonga.
[/b]

South Africa and England are by far and away the best packs in the world cup.
England have the edge at scrum time and in sheer nous but i feel the Boks have a big edge in the back row, with not only the size and power you would always associate the Boks with but they are also showing some nice soft hands and offloading well in the tackle.The influence of Eddie Jones coming through I feel.
The Argies are good but just a bit too sluggish for my liking. As for the All Blacks the front row is weak apart from Hayman(and he is off to Newcastle anyway). Ali Williams is the biggest fanny to play rugby since Damien Cronin ,Jacks not bad(off to Sarries) and the back row just melted under the pressure of the Paris lights.
I know many Kiwis will have a go at me for the above comments but when the **** hit the fan the AB fowards (and backs) went into their shell and hid.
Fowards win World cups the backs decide by how much.
[/b][/quote]

What??? I'm pretty sure Tony Woodcock has been one of the props in NZ who's starting to nudge Hayman out of all the praise which is heaved on our pack. Woodcock and Hayman are the two best loose head and tight head props in the world respectively. I'd prefer Woodcock over Sheridan. Sheridan's brilliant, but is he really worth all that praise because he flattened fat **** Dunning?

Last time I checked it was Hayman and Woodcock pushing your pack all over the park, and every year these two do the same thing to Australia. So why is Sheridan so revered now? He's good, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather have Hayman, Woodcock, Roncero, Scelzo and Du Randt ahead of him.
[/b][/quote]

Its about an having an all round game and that is what Sheridan has. Not only is he the worlds most destructive scrummager but he has also carried for over 150 yards in this world cup.Pretty impressive eh?
Dont forget Sheridan hasnt been propping that long since his move from lock. Its only now he is maturing that we are begining to see him at his best. This is about the world cup and the AB props havent made anything like the impression the English have. As ive said before its not about what you do in the years before the cup that count its about performing under pressure. You cant deny this.
Also Roncero is a great prop. I enjoyed his few years at Gloucester and its good to see him improve year on year.
[/b][/quote]

Ok, well yeah then, based solely on this world cup Sheridan and co haver definitely made the biggest impression and I think they will most likely shunt the Saffers around. Van der Linde is very poor, and they are relying on Sir Os to stand his ground, look for England to dominate in this area and this area alone.
Can't believe Sheridan was once a lock, crazy how smooth his transition has been, not only that, he's one of the best around.
 
D

danny

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
For my money, the 2 most complete packs are the AB`s and the Argies. Pretty close between them, nothing really in it. Both teams have an excellent scrum, and both packs compete very well at the breakdowns. The AB pack probably has the edge in athleticism and pace, but the Argies don`t have that distinct disadvantage at the back of the lineout of the AB`s.

As for the rest, England`s got a massive scrum, a very good lineout and great commitment in terms of cleaning out at the rucks and shifting contact points, but miss out in terms of pace around the park. The Boks have certainly got the pace, the best offensive lineout in the business, and plenty of grunt at the breakdowns, but their scrum has gone backwards this year. The French pack has been hot and cold really, massive for the better part, but got completely outmuscled by the AB`s. Winning only 27% possession certainly says something about them. And the Argies cerainly beat them to the breakdowns too.

Of the so-called "minnows", Georgia was certainly impessive, as was Tonga.
[/b]

South Africa and England are by far and away the best packs in the world cup.
England have the edge at scrum time and in sheer nous but i feel the Boks have a big edge in the back row, with not only the size and power you would always associate the Boks with but they are also showing some nice soft hands and offloading well in the tackle.The influence of Eddie Jones coming through I feel.
The Argies are good but just a bit too sluggish for my liking. As for the All Blacks the front row is weak apart from Hayman(and he is off to Newcastle anyway). Ali Williams is the biggest fanny to play rugby since Damien Cronin ,Jacks not bad(off to Sarries) and the back row just melted under the pressure of the Paris lights.
I know many Kiwis will have a go at me for the above comments but when the **** hit the fan the AB fowards (and backs) went into their shell and hid.
Fowards win World cups the backs decide by how much.
[/b][/quote]

What??? I'm pretty sure Tony Woodcock has been one of the props in NZ who's starting to nudge Hayman out of all the praise which is heaved on our pack. Woodcock and Hayman are the two best loose head and tight head props in the world respectively. I'd prefer Woodcock over Sheridan. Sheridan's brilliant, but is he really worth all that praise because he flattened fat **** Dunning?

Last time I checked it was Hayman and Woodcock pushing your pack all over the park, and every year these two do the same thing to Australia. So why is Sheridan so revered now? He's good, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather have Hayman, Woodcock, Roncero, Scelzo and Du Randt ahead of him.
[/b][/quote]

Its about an having an all round game and that is what Sheridan has. Not only is he the worlds most destructive scrummager but he has also carried for over 150 yards in this world cup.Pretty impressive eh?
Dont forget Sheridan hasnt been propping that long since his move from lock. Its only now he is maturing that we are begining to see him at his best. This is about the world cup and the AB props havent made anything like the impression the English have. As ive said before its not about what you do in the years before the cup that count its about performing under pressure. You cant deny this.
Also Roncero is a great prop. I enjoyed his few years at Gloucester and its good to see him improve year on year.
[/b][/quote]

Ok, well yeah then, based solely on this world cup Sheridan and co haver definitely made the biggest impression and I think they will most likely shunt the Saffers around. Van der Linde is very poor, and they are relying on Sir Os to stand his ground, look for England to dominate in this area and this area alone.
Can't believe Sheridan was once a lock, crazy how smooth his transition has been, not only that, he's one of the best around.
[/b][/quote]
it is incredible how he has come on and win or lose on Saturday he will be the corner stone of our pack into the next cup in your gaff. Dont get me wrong im a massive admirer of all black rugby an i wish you guys all the best for the future and im sure you will lift that elusive cup in 4 years. all the best mate.
 
W

WQtRiggEr

Guest
yeah the good thing about England is that the slightly better pairing of Sheridan-Stevens will be there for a long time yet. Both still young and definitely have a lot more to offer!
 

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