The Grassroots Thread

[RedruthRFC]

Welcome to the ranks of the real rugby supporters GoTheNaki.

Your post confirms what I've long believed, that the NZ system is the best around for identifying talent and fast tracking it to the appropriate level.

My club (Redruth) signed Taranaki player Chris Woods back in 2005. He looked like a stand out player at our level, but I'm not sure what went wrong. He only played 3 matches and left the club.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Welcome to the ranks of the real rugby supporters GoTheNaki.

Your post confirms what I've long believed, that the NZ system is the best around for identifying talent and fast tracking it to the appropriate level.

My club (Redruth) signed Taranaki player Chris Woods back in 2005. He looked like a stand out player at our level, but I'm not sure what went wrong. He only played 3 matches and left the club.

It's probably because the Warrens opposite the ridiculously expensive cast iron welly-boots don't sell the New Zealand pie .


Yes, the place I lived in the UK was Cornwall.


Also, incidentally my nephew-in-law talked to me about an email he got a few months ago, he talked to me when he got it... It was about playing halfback at Redruth... Are you in need of a little dark fellow with neat passing and a lot of speed? Lol.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Well, if you need a name of someone to approach, I'm happy to find the details. I know we do a lot of coaching support sessions, especially given we've 800 kids on the books as of last season. By level 2 you've got rid of the Wandsworth Common daddy's all trying to get an edge for Milo in the U8s team too. Great opportunity to get involved, although I'm not sure what will happen when they reach senior level, seeing as we don't actually have any of our own pitches.

While I like the big club, I miss my old days at Streatham and Croydon. In a VERY ghetto area of London, yet one of the oldest clubs in the world AND used to play the likes of Bath, Leicester, and all that until the 1960s. 11 XVs is now down to 3, but always a very welcoming atmosphere. Not that Battersea isn't, but its far more competitive. We were lucky to be top-2 in all four leagues last year, but it means there's now less room for those who can't train twice a week, myself included.

How did the drop go? Can't imagine it was an easy decision to make.

I have a name somewhere, will have to dig it out. Basically I need to get into the season and work out how much captaincy takes it out of me (it's my turn this year) and whether I've still got the energy to commit to Sunday mornings with colts.

The drop hasn't happened, it's this evening. It's the right thing to do, because we need to play at the level we can compete at or we won't survive, still a hard call to make though.

 

[RedruthRFC]

It's probably because the Warrens opposite the ridiculously expensive cast iron welly-boots don't sell the New Zealand pie .

Yes, the place I lived in the UK was Cornwall.

Also, incidentally my nephew-in-law talked to me about an email he got a few months ago, he talked to me when he got it... It was about playing halfback at Redruth... Are you in need of a little dark fellow with neat passing and a lot of speed? Lol.

Wow, small world. At a recent public meeting at the club, the DoR mentioned a new signing being in the pipeline, but we are yet to see anything materialise. We lost our scrum half at the end of last season and now have a young 9 who has bags of potential, but is inexperienced, we also lack cover. Neat passing and speed at 9 (our previous scrum half was the best breaking 9 in the league, but lacked a really good pass or much awareness of what was going on behind him) would be quite a boost to the side. Obviously I'm biased, but I think Redruth is a good club for overseas players to join - there's plenty of team / club spirit in a small community, so overseas players are made to feel very welcome. A couple of guys who have long since left the club for pastures greener (Mark Bright, ex-Makos and PJ Gidlow, ex-Te Puke) both come back to the area and visit the club when they get the chance.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Yeah, it really is a small world. Ain't gonna lie man, I miss Shimmy's eh... Haha. But yeah, it's kinda a shame my nephew-in-law is all **** and would probably never take such a leap of faith like that. I definitely know that moral would be very high with that rowdy 'druth lot .

 

[RedruthRFC]

Lol, I live less than a five minute walk from Shimmys, but have never darkened their doors - I haven't got a sweet tooth, so until they perfect the bacon shake, I won't be bothering. No doubt you have a photo of yourself sat astride a welly boot dog during a post Shimmys sugar rush (no doubt everyone else reading this thinks that we're insane by now)!

Dare I ask what brought you to Redruth?

Did you ever watch the Reds while you were here?

 

[GoTheNaki]

My mother wanted to work as a nurse in the UK. It's like the kinda, pinnacle, of sorts and I was only 12ish. Was in Lanner, Perranporth, Porthtowan, Hayle, and Redruth, in order, over 10 years.

No, I didnt watch them. I knew of them but rugby just wasn't the same for me. I knew a guy called Graham, owns a glass company, that played for some part of Redruth.

However, this can again relate back to grassroots rugby. As a 12 year old, before leaving New Zealand, I could play whatever sport I wanted, in whatever conditions. In England, it had to be a certain season, and during P.E. if you wanted to play on the grass. The only field that was available, was during summer.. And football was vastly more popular. (Richard Lander)

Truro College is fantastic for sports. Basketball, Rugby, Cricket etc. But being in a place like Richard Lander School really dampened peoples willingness to play rugby. Like, there was.. Honestly, 2 guys passionate about rugby in my whole year. I can imagine it's the same with all the other secondary schools in Cornwall too. Truro College made it to world secondary schools one year.. They played Hamilton Boys and got smacked around... But you cannot play a school like that when you've only played rugby seriously for two years, from 16-18 when you get to "college".

My nephew, he's 11. There have been rugby teams available for him since he was 5 or 6. Over here it is called "rippa", you have little tags attached to the back of them that you pull off your opponent when they have the ball, 6 rips and it's a turnover. It is non-contact rugby. Tackle starts at under 8s. Full field and all facets of the game, starts at under 11s...I think.

It's rare to have kids start late and be in prestigious rugby secondary schools.

How old are you btw?

 

[Five Meters Out]

Isaac Te Aute - Gordon must be confident he can teach the boy how to tackle. Some of his defending in those Secondary Schools Finals in Rotorua was worse then weak.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Isaac Te Aute - Gordon must be confident he can teach the boy how to tackle. Some of his defending in those Secondary Schools Finals in Rotorua was worse then weak.

#InTietjensWeTrust

I've honestly had never any reason to doubt Tietjens with his youth selection abilities... But it is only one game, to be fair. He's had to have been good all season to make such a team.

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Last weekend Hornets were 34-16 down with 15 to play and won 42-34 against Dings, scored 4 tries in last quarter!

 

[RedruthRFC]

However, this can again relate back to grassroots rugby. As a 12 year old, before leaving New Zealand, I could play whatever sport I wanted, in whatever conditions. In England, it had to be a certain season, and during P.E. if you wanted to play on the grass. The only field that was available, was during summer.. And football was vastly more popular. (Richard Lander)

Truro College is fantastic for sports. Basketball, Rugby, Cricket etc. But being in a place like Richard Lander School really dampened peoples willingness to play rugby. Like, there was.. Honestly, 2 guys passionate about rugby in my whole year. I can imagine it's the same with all the other secondary schools in Cornwall too. Truro College made it to world secondary schools one year.. They played Hamilton Boys and got smacked around... But you cannot play a school like that when you've only played rugby seriously for two years, from 16-18 when you get to "college".

I'm not sure that Richard Lander are typical of a Cornish secondary schools. They were always a pretty poor school side, I can only think of two players in their team who played club rugby in my school year. Redruth School were pretty decent rugby wise, although there were always one or two weak positions. My school year produced 3 Cornwall players, one of whom went on to sit on the bench for England U16. There were plenty of people with a keen interest in rugby. I don't know if this is a reflection of the teachers / PE department's interests or a reflection of the town's strong rugby tradition. The biggest problem is that rugby was only ever played up until Christmas, after which it switched to soccer.

In my day anyway (I'd be amazed if things have changed) club rugby was always a lot higher level than school rugby. All of the lads who played for the Truro College side you mention would have been playing club rugby for a good few years being joining Truro College. Maybe they too had weak positions, but the side that stuffed them must have been pretty damn impressive. The Truro side contained Jack Nowell and Luke Cowan-Dickie as well as quite a few others who have gone on to play professional rugby.

My nephew, he's 11. There have been rugby teams available for him since he was 5 or 6. Over here it is called "rippa", you have little tags attached to the back of them that you pull off your opponent when they have the ball, 6 rips and it's a turnover. It is non-contact rugby. Tackle starts at under 8s. Full field and all facets of the game, starts at under 11s...I think.

It's rare to have kids start late and be in prestigious rugby secondary schools.

I believe that kids start at around the same age over here, although I have heard of a programme called Rugby Tots which is aimed at even younger children. Over here it is called Tag Rugby in the early age groups. I'm not sure when contact is introduced, but I suspect it's later than in NZ. In NZ youth rugby, do you always play against kids of the same age? I've heard in the past the groups were formed by weight.

How old are you btw?

I'm 35.

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Last weekend Hornets were 34-16 down with 15 to play and won 42-34 against Dings, scored 4 tries in last quarter!

Run the legs off Dings' big boys I guess. I certainly wouldn't have put money on Dings and Lydney being in the bottom three at the start of the season. I was amazed by Lydney's stuffing.

Redruth won 30-17 at home to Southend despite being down to 12 men at one point in the match!

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Run the legs off Dings' big boys I guess. I certainly wouldn't have put money on Dings and Lydney being in the bottom three at the start of the season. I was amazed by Lydney's stuffing.

Redruth won 30-17 at home to Southend despite being down to 12 men at one point in the match!

Seems it, average age of the team we put out was 23-24, same as last week all were members of our mini and juniors section, a couple of which I played with

 

[RedruthRFC]

Seems it, average age of the team we put out was 23-24, same as last week all were members of our mini and juniors section, a couple of which I played with

Impressive stuff. The hard core of the Redruth team is ex-colts / minis / juniors (a lot more than most other N2S teams), but there's a bit more movement of players down here, thanks to a lack of second team rugby and a local college which works in tandem with Exeter Chiefs and hovers up much of the local youth talent and keeps them away from club rugby.

 

[Tony Manx]

Now this is a real rugby thread!! Long may you guys continue it!'

 

[Five Meters Out]

Hi Redruth
Re your question on contact and youth weight or age
Across NZ contact (tackle) commences at Under 8's. They play the first 4 - 6 weeks as "hands on hips" constituting a tackle, during which the kids are taught the correct way to tackle. This includes at least one session with a more experienced, qualified Coach (I.e Not their Saturday coach). By the end of the 4-6 weeks both kids (and their parents) are ready to get stuck in and tackle games commence. Tackles below the nipple line.

When the kids hit secondary school (13 years old) in NZ, they leave junior rugby and commence playing for their Colleges. There is no other option for kids 13 to 17 years old.
At 13 and 14 there is a mixture of age and weight grades. It depends what the local rules are. In Wellington you can choose from Under 55kg, Under 65kg, Under 80 kg, or open weight. There is also an Under 15's grade. There used to be an Under 14's, but they've done away with that, with most schools preferring weight. Having said that, Under 15's is something of a "Premier grade" where the real up and comers play.
Once the young man hits his third year (Year 11) at secondary school, unless he's a light weight he generally goes Open weight. At an all boys College, exceptional kids might make the 1st XV in Yr 11, but generally that would occur in year 12 or 13 (their final year). The 1st XV competitions have grown in importance over the past 15 years. The very best will go direct from 1st XV into Super Rugby or be signed by Rugby League clubs in Australia.
Hope this helps.

 

[GoTheNaki]

The very best will go direct from 1st XV into Super Rugby or be signed by Rugby League clubs in Australia.
Hope this helps.

Yeah, NZRU lost a fantastic player as I mentioned. He come straight outta his school and NZ Secondary Schools team, and went straight over to an NRL team in Australia.

But typically, only the extraordinary, e.g. players like the Savea brothers, go straight into Super Rugby. The good schoolboy players normally make a provincial team, and then have to progress and make U20s NZ to have a chance at a Super Rugby team. But, even then, it doesn't always happen, I know some guys that are struggling with making the Super Rugby Development teams. This is why NZ 7s master, Gordon Tietjens is so damn good for our country, his scouting ability is second-to-none. And sometimes really saves face for the NZRU.

It is going to become more common, NRL teams are going to throw money at these talented 18 year old rugby players and they will jump ship. However, what we've found out recently, that their goal as children have always been to play in the All Blacks, so thankfully, he'll be back at I would assume, the peak of his powers.

For those of you still guessing, I'm talking about Roger Tuivasa-Sheck, and he is going to be a nightmare in an All Blacks jersey. Yes, I'm calling it now, he'll be around 27/28 when he comes to rugby, he is a more gifted Israel Dagg, and he is certainly, as a 24 year old, very close to Israel Folau's level. I assume if the NZ Warriors win the NRL, he will ask for an early release, so here's hoping he kills two birds with one stone.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Thanks guys. I'm always keen to learn more about how things work in different countries, particularly NZ. The academy system in England has its critics, but I believe that it does a pretty decent job, as evidenced by the U20 RWC. The problem we have here is giving meaningful game time to lads at school leaving age - this is something that the tiered structure in NZ accomplishes brilliantly. One of the biggest criticisms of the English academy system is that too many players who don't make the professional grade end up lost to the game, which could be avoided by a NZ style system that would allow such players to slot in at whatever level is appropriate to their ability. I guess this structure only works because NZ has a high number of rugby players per capita.

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Now this is a real rugby thread!! Long may you guys continue it!'

My feeling exactly. I'm surprised how little low and how few contributions this thread gets. My first taste of rugby was at my local club (being taken by my father on a Saturday afternoon). They were late in starting a mini section, but as soon as it started, I joined and have been playing for (in the past) and watching the club ever since. I guess more upwardly mobile posters will have a tougher time keeping in touch with their previous clubs' exploits, but I'm surprised how many people's interest seems confined to level one and above. IMO anyone who falls into this camp is missing out. I enjoy a trip to watch an AP match once in a while, but it always has a feel of being a day out provided by an entertainment company where the rugby is a sideshow to many in attendance. Week in, week out, I'm much happier with the abundance of friendly, knowledgeable, passionate people to share a pint and your thoughts about the game with at a grass roots club. Each to their own obviously.

 

[HowieLO6]

While I'm sure plenty have already seen it, here's a little something that Matt Dawson has done, seemingly with the aim of winding up other nations:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/new...rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

I only share it, as its the might Battersea Ironsides showing off their moves alongside Dawson. I ought to make i clear that our preseason work hasn't just been about loosening our hips and finding our rhythm.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Another week another win for Redruth who sit second in the table after 3 weeks. This weeks win was very pleasing, travelling a long way to without our both of our N2S dream team members, I must confess that I was expecting the worst.

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Another week another win for Redruth who sit second in the table after 3 weeks. This weeks win was very pleasing, travelling a long way to without our both of our N2S dream team members, I must confess that I was expecting the worst.

Hornets won 17-10 away to Old Redcliffians, top of the table. Good start to the year.