J
Jer1cho
Guest
Economic Left/Right: -3.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.41
Uh... So, what now?
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.41
Uh... So, what now?
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S
stormer2010
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jan 29 2010, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Interesting to see the South Africans are more authoritarian than others on this site.
Interesting to see the South Africans are more authoritarian than others on this site.
S
St Helens RLFC
Guest
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
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shtove
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Jan 29 2010, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
If you don't get the real issue - debt, not political ideology - then watch this: it's in rap format to help you comprehend ...
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d0nERTFo-Sk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d0nERTFo-Sk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
You missed my point about fascism, where the state and big business combine to each other's benefit?
If you don't get the real issue - debt, not political ideology - then watch this: it's in rap format to help you comprehend ...
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d0nERTFo-Sk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d0nERTFo-Sk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
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gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 29 2010, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
If you don't get the real issue - debt, not political ideology - then watch this: it's in rap format to help you comprehend ...
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d0nERTFo-Sk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d0nERTFo-Sk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
[/b][/quote]
Fascism's core value of fascio, whereby people group together to produce better results is admirable - the best example being that one strand can break easily, but many strands combined into rope are strong.
However, this is not exactly an original idea. Hell, a lot of animals have even worked out that hunting in packs is more successful than hunting alone; or living in a herd is safer than living alone. It's this principle that lies behind ideas of wealth redistribution, and therefore a key to most leftist ideologies.
What is wrong with fascism is that it is also strictly hierarchicha (which requires a large state), and runs a form of social Darwinism. People with the strongest 'will' make it to the top - by whatever means.
Which is where you fall down saying 'at least with violence you can tell the state to f*** off'. No you can't. Because if you are in a violent society, you're playing under a different set of rules. And the state will be far more powerful than it is now, because they have the army and police behind them - far more threatening than an angry immigrant who doesn't like paying taxes.
And big business can never combine effectively with the state. Big businesses work for profit, which they get most of with minimal state interference. So, to benefit anyone, the big business must be philanthropic - which they aren't, because they'll be replaced by a more ruthless corporation. When they do work with the state, you get Blair's awful public-private partnerships, which mean 1) Businesses have influence in the running of the country, and 2) sectors are disconnected. And if you don't believe me, try public transport in London, where until the last few months ago, TFL (owners of tubes and buses) ran the Oyster card system, but London's overground rail companies like South West Trains did not. Which meant having any sum of credit on your Oyster Card meant you still had to buy a ticket to use the trains.
You missed my point about fascism, where the state and big business combine to each other's benefit?
If you don't get the real issue - debt, not political ideology - then watch this: it's in rap format to help you comprehend ...
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d0nERTFo-Sk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d0nERTFo-Sk&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
[/b][/quote]
Fascism's core value of fascio, whereby people group together to produce better results is admirable - the best example being that one strand can break easily, but many strands combined into rope are strong.
However, this is not exactly an original idea. Hell, a lot of animals have even worked out that hunting in packs is more successful than hunting alone; or living in a herd is safer than living alone. It's this principle that lies behind ideas of wealth redistribution, and therefore a key to most leftist ideologies.
What is wrong with fascism is that it is also strictly hierarchicha (which requires a large state), and runs a form of social Darwinism. People with the strongest 'will' make it to the top - by whatever means.
Which is where you fall down saying 'at least with violence you can tell the state to f*** off'. No you can't. Because if you are in a violent society, you're playing under a different set of rules. And the state will be far more powerful than it is now, because they have the army and police behind them - far more threatening than an angry immigrant who doesn't like paying taxes.
And big business can never combine effectively with the state. Big businesses work for profit, which they get most of with minimal state interference. So, to benefit anyone, the big business must be philanthropic - which they aren't, because they'll be replaced by a more ruthless corporation. When they do work with the state, you get Blair's awful public-private partnerships, which mean 1) Businesses have influence in the running of the country, and 2) sectors are disconnected. And if you don't believe me, try public transport in London, where until the last few months ago, TFL (owners of tubes and buses) ran the Oyster card system, but London's overground rail companies like South West Trains did not. Which meant having any sum of credit on your Oyster Card meant you still had to buy a ticket to use the trains.
S
shtove
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 30 2010, 06:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 30 2010, 06:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 30 2010, 06:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
One last thing - an extra partner in the fascist group hug is public sector unions. I'm sure you have many good things to say about them
In Ireland the social partnership model of negotation with such unions was followed like scripture, prime example of third way thinking. Result? Public sector workers haven't been hit with the recession or the consequences of their stupid borrowing, and the electorate is getting steamed about it. In this country watch out for the north of england and south wales - highly dependant on public sector employment, which is about to have the rug pulled from under.
And I think you're unwise to assume that Britain is rich. Not with the amount of debt carried by government and individuals.
Well, that happens under all systems. Can't think of one where Superman didn't make it to the top.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 30 2010, 06:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
This is the point about the right to bear arms in Merica - the provision for citizens to band together in militias was precisely to counter the authority of the empire. How relevant is it today? Not sure, but assuming that the state has the army and police behind it begs the question - the state does not have a monopoly on loyalty.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 30 2010, 06:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
This is the real issue. Debatable on big business, although Tesco is crucial to maintaining the food supply in the UK and enjoys alot of leeway from gubmint. Maybe better to focus on big rent-seekers like the banks. The UK has an 83% stake in the most reckless bank in history, RBS, and took over B&B and NRK and still hasn't liquidated the assets of those companies as should rightfully happen in a bankruptcy. The state is hanging on because it wants them to get back to rent-seeking in order to prop up the housing market. It's working so far. I reckon the day government stepped in to NRK was the most exciting in Gordon Brown's life! And my earlier point about the state setting bankers' pay is valid - it is jaw dropping to see them convert taxpayer cash into bubble-peak bonuses.
One last thing - an extra partner in the fascist group hug is public sector unions. I'm sure you have many good things to say about them
In Ireland the social partnership model of negotation with such unions was followed like scripture, prime example of third way thinking. Result? Public sector workers haven't been hit with the recession or the consequences of their stupid borrowing, and the electorate is getting steamed about it. In this country watch out for the north of england and south wales - highly dependant on public sector employment, which is about to have the rug pulled from under.And I think you're unwise to assume that Britain is rich. Not with the amount of debt carried by government and individuals.
W
William18
Guest
Economic Left/Right: 2.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.82
I'm shocked that I am only the second person on the right wing on this forum, especially when you consider that most of the world leaders on this compass tend to be right wing.
The test is a good indicator but you can't read too much in to it. According to the 2008 New Zealand election page I should have voted for labour and that is something I would never do. I also find it funny how to the right they have the National party when National have really stayed as close as possible to the centre
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.82
I'm shocked that I am only the second person on the right wing on this forum, especially when you consider that most of the world leaders on this compass tend to be right wing.
The test is a good indicator but you can't read too much in to it. According to the 2008 New Zealand election page I should have voted for labour and that is something I would never do. I also find it funny how to the right they have the National party when National have really stayed as close as possible to the centre
F
feicarsinn
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Bullshit. I know our income has gone down by roughly 30% which is hardly not being hit is it? Also, a vast generalisation to assume every public sector worker makes bad investment, or any inverstments at all aside from bank accounts. Cop on.
If you're going to try and make a point at least back it up with some form of evidence.
Bullshit. I know our income has gone down by roughly 30% which is hardly not being hit is it? Also, a vast generalisation to assume every public sector worker makes bad investment, or any inverstments at all aside from bank accounts. Cop on.
If you're going to try and make a point at least back it up with some form of evidence.
S
shtove
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Jan 31 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Bullshit. I know our income has gone down by roughly 30% which is hardly not being hit is it? Also, a vast generalisation to assume every public sector worker makes bad investment, or any inverstments at all aside from bank accounts. Cop on.
If you're going to try and make a point at least back it up with some form of evidence.
[/b][/quote]
Hey, it's a generalisation. But I do know that Joe Bloggs is losing his house because he's lost his job. Not something that's happened to the public sector ... yet. 99% of people who turn up in debt court are private sector.
And you might be shocked to know how many local authority employees have buy-to-let portfolios. The figures aren't knowable, but there is a lot of over-investment by people who should be on modest wages.
Bullshit. I know our income has gone down by roughly 30% which is hardly not being hit is it? Also, a vast generalisation to assume every public sector worker makes bad investment, or any inverstments at all aside from bank accounts. Cop on.
If you're going to try and make a point at least back it up with some form of evidence.
[/b][/quote]
Hey, it's a generalisation. But I do know that Joe Bloggs is losing his house because he's lost his job. Not something that's happened to the public sector ... yet. 99% of people who turn up in debt court are private sector.
And you might be shocked to know how many local authority employees have buy-to-let portfolios. The figures aren't knowable, but there is a lot of over-investment by people who should be on modest wages.
G
gingergenius
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 31 2010, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Bullshit. I know our income has gone down by roughly 30% which is hardly not being hit is it? Also, a vast generalisation to assume every public sector worker makes bad investment, or any inverstments at all aside from bank accounts. Cop on.
If you're going to try and make a point at least back it up with some form of evidence.
[/b][/quote]
Hey, it's a generalisation. But I do know that Joe Bloggs is losing his house because he's lost his job. Not something that's happened to the public sector ... yet. 99% of people who turn up in debt court are private sector.
And you might be shocked to know how many local authority employees have buy-to-let portfolios. The figures aren't knowable, but there is a lot of over-investment by people who should be on modest wages.
[/b][/quote]
Well thats obvious. The point of private companies is that they fund themselves. So if they can't do that, then employees suffer. The public sector, however, works in a different area. They are non-profit orinetated, because the public sector is geared to making the country run efficiently and providing us with essential services like police, healthcare etc. It's not feasible to sack a bunch of nurses during a recession - it's not really an area that can be downsized.
That is one of the benefits of public sector work. You can earn more in many private sector jobs, but the public sector offers job security.
Bullshit. I know our income has gone down by roughly 30% which is hardly not being hit is it? Also, a vast generalisation to assume every public sector worker makes bad investment, or any inverstments at all aside from bank accounts. Cop on.
If you're going to try and make a point at least back it up with some form of evidence.
[/b][/quote]
Hey, it's a generalisation. But I do know that Joe Bloggs is losing his house because he's lost his job. Not something that's happened to the public sector ... yet. 99% of people who turn up in debt court are private sector.
And you might be shocked to know how many local authority employees have buy-to-let portfolios. The figures aren't knowable, but there is a lot of over-investment by people who should be on modest wages.
[/b][/quote]
Well thats obvious. The point of private companies is that they fund themselves. So if they can't do that, then employees suffer. The public sector, however, works in a different area. They are non-profit orinetated, because the public sector is geared to making the country run efficiently and providing us with essential services like police, healthcare etc. It's not feasible to sack a bunch of nurses during a recession - it's not really an area that can be downsized.
That is one of the benefits of public sector work. You can earn more in many private sector jobs, but the public sector offers job security.
L
lucky_number_7
Guest
Economic Left/Right: 5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.46
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.46
S
shtove
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 1 2010, 02:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Bullshit. I know our income has gone down by roughly 30% which is hardly not being hit is it? Also, a vast generalisation to assume every public sector worker makes bad investment, or any inverstments at all aside from bank accounts. Cop on.
If you're going to try and make a point at least back it up with some form of evidence.
[/b][/quote]
Hey, it's a generalisation. But I do know that Joe Bloggs is losing his house because he's lost his job. Not something that's happened to the public sector ... yet. 99% of people who turn up in debt court are private sector.
And you might be shocked to know how many local authority employees have buy-to-let portfolios. The figures aren't knowable, but there is a lot of over-investment by people who should be on modest wages.
[/b][/quote]
Well thats obvious. The point of private companies is that they fund themselves. So if they can't do that, then employees suffer. The public sector, however, works in a different area. They are non-profit orinetated, because the public sector is geared to making the country run efficiently and providing us with essential services like police, healthcare etc. It's not feasible to sack a bunch of nurses during a recession - it's not really an area that can be downsized.
That is one of the benefits of public sector work. You can earn more in many private sector jobs, but the public sector offers job security.
[/b][/quote]
That's a bargain everyone understands, no problem in principle. Add in upward only inflation linked pay rises, overtime, and bonuses modelled on the private sector = bargain broken, because taxpayers see heads-I-win-tails-you-lose. Biggest problem is that the unfunded pension liability of public sector is fantasy land - has to be paid by future taxpayers when alot of them simply won't have the moolah. Brown has overshot very badly.
California is trying to get to grips with this now, just when it's about to tip over into bankruptcy. Ireland too. Greece soon. UK when?
I do know a nurse who's had her income reduced 30% in the past year because of NHS overtime cuts. She says it's the same for everyone in her area, plus she has a BTL she can no longer pay the mortgage on. She's in the no-man's land of being above the tax credits limit. In fact a single mum on benefits and who rents has a greater net income, mostly made up of housing benefit + child benefit/tax credit. Ouch!
Bullshit. I know our income has gone down by roughly 30% which is hardly not being hit is it? Also, a vast generalisation to assume every public sector worker makes bad investment, or any inverstments at all aside from bank accounts. Cop on.
If you're going to try and make a point at least back it up with some form of evidence.
[/b][/quote]
Hey, it's a generalisation. But I do know that Joe Bloggs is losing his house because he's lost his job. Not something that's happened to the public sector ... yet. 99% of people who turn up in debt court are private sector.
And you might be shocked to know how many local authority employees have buy-to-let portfolios. The figures aren't knowable, but there is a lot of over-investment by people who should be on modest wages.
[/b][/quote]
Well thats obvious. The point of private companies is that they fund themselves. So if they can't do that, then employees suffer. The public sector, however, works in a different area. They are non-profit orinetated, because the public sector is geared to making the country run efficiently and providing us with essential services like police, healthcare etc. It's not feasible to sack a bunch of nurses during a recession - it's not really an area that can be downsized.
That is one of the benefits of public sector work. You can earn more in many private sector jobs, but the public sector offers job security.
[/b][/quote]
That's a bargain everyone understands, no problem in principle. Add in upward only inflation linked pay rises, overtime, and bonuses modelled on the private sector = bargain broken, because taxpayers see heads-I-win-tails-you-lose. Biggest problem is that the unfunded pension liability of public sector is fantasy land - has to be paid by future taxpayers when alot of them simply won't have the moolah. Brown has overshot very badly.
California is trying to get to grips with this now, just when it's about to tip over into bankruptcy. Ireland too. Greece soon. UK when?
I do know a nurse who's had her income reduced 30% in the past year because of NHS overtime cuts. She says it's the same for everyone in her area, plus she has a BTL she can no longer pay the mortgage on. She's in the no-man's land of being above the tax credits limit. In fact a single mum on benefits and who rents has a greater net income, mostly made up of housing benefit + child benefit/tax credit. Ouch!
P
Prestwick
Guest
Look, sod all this crap, lets get back on subject:
<span style="color:#000000">"Lets talk better road mileage for station wagons."
I say, BORING!
Can't we talk about war and explosions and sh*t?
<span style="color:#000000">"Lets talk better road mileage for station wagons."
I say, BORING!
Can't we talk about war and explosions and sh*t?
S
shtove
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 2 2010, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
You're about to get burned by both sides.
P
Prestwick
Guest
All I got from that was:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 2 2010, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
....what? :huh:
EDIT: So now we all know that GingaG and Shtove are Jimmy Carter's love children can we get back to the REAL debate which is, like, bombing people and stuff?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 2 2010, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
"Lets offer Iran energy saving tips in exchange for an end to their nuclear program!"[/b]
....what? :huh:
EDIT: So now we all know that GingaG and Shtove are Jimmy Carter's love children can we get back to the REAL debate which is, like, bombing people and stuff?
S
shtove
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 3 2010, 06:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
....what? :huh:
EDIT: So now we all know that GingaG and Shtove are Jimmy Carter's love children can we get back to the REAL debate which is, like, bombing people and stuff?
[/b][/quote]
Stealing is bombing. Get real, dude.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NGD0GemEiqw&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NGD0GemEiqw&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Plenty more to come. God save the UK.
<font size="5">"Lets offer Iran energy saving tips in exchange for an end to their nuclear program!"</font>[/b]
....what? :huh:
EDIT: So now we all know that GingaG and Shtove are Jimmy Carter's love children can we get back to the REAL debate which is, like, bombing people and stuff?
[/b][/quote]
Stealing is bombing. Get real, dude.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NGD0GemEiqw&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NGD0GemEiqw&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Plenty more to come. God save the UK.
P
Prestwick
Guest
You know Shtove, you read crap blogs and you play crap videos. I mean, an economic crisis hitting Britain and you miss Bremner, Bird & Fortune?!
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hXBcmqwTV9s&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hXBcmqwTV9s&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
And stealing isn't bombing, BOMBING IS BOMBING!
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hXBcmqwTV9s&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hXBcmqwTV9s&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
And stealing isn't bombing, BOMBING IS BOMBING!
S
shtove
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 5 2010, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Please direct me to the mighty blogs on what's happening in the UK. You can't, because there are none. Zip. Brits don't have the balls to share their views and demand justice. They prefer to pretend that government will solve all problems, forever, so long as they shut up and wait in line.
And please preach to the people of Iraq the difference between stealing and bombing. I could do with a laugh.
Yours Truly,
Mr Angry.
You know, that's the best video produced by the UK on the Great Fraud. Not much, but at least it's something.
Please direct me to the mighty blogs on what's happening in the UK. You can't, because there are none. Zip. Brits don't have the balls to share their views and demand justice. They prefer to pretend that government will solve all problems, forever, so long as they shut up and wait in line.
And please preach to the people of Iraq the difference between stealing and bombing. I could do with a laugh.
Yours Truly,
Mr Angry.
G
gingergenius
Guest
The problem here is that no one has any clue what either of you are arguing about.
A
alexrugby
Guest
My Results:
1) F**ck politics
2) nowhere I stand God damn it
1) F**ck politics
2) nowhere I stand God damn it
