training plan ideas and what to work on as a flanker

[j2s1l7y]

hey there, i'm sorry i'm new here and have posted twice in two days but i think its a great site with a great community so i hope you can help.
i'm playing 7 at the moment at u14 level where there is such a range of sizes , personally i'm 5 ft 7 ish and 50-60 kg . i am a mainly defensive player that tackles loads , how ever i'm looking to be able to make bigger hits any advice on that ?
i often steal ball at the ruck and believe that is a main part of my game , however in training i'm a large presence in attack scoring 4+ tries a session braking through tackles, offloading and using speed and foot work to beat players but i seem to crumble in attack in a game struggling to get my hands on the ball,, i would really appreciate any advice on a flankers role in attack and any advice on which lines i should be trying to run.
i also started weight training with a irfu program for young players i found on the internet i use small light weights (nothing more than 20 kg) for any of the exercises and am trying to increase my fitness ( i have been using an exercise bike) and agility/ power , any drills for these would be much appreciated. i can pass confidently off both hands as well, finally i never practice kicking as i believe it is not necessary for my position should i start to ?
thank you in advance i am desperate to become the best rugby player possible and would love to persue a rugby career and train 5/6 times a week including club, school and my own personal training .

 

[BPM]

I'll give you my thoughts. I'm far from a pro, but as a long time, passionate back rower, I can relate to a lot of what you've said there.

It seems like you are doing a lot of the right things, but it also sounds a little bit like you are tying to be good at everything though which isn't necessarily realistic.

If you're good over the ball and a good tackler, I'd suggest playing to your strengths and looking to maximise them as much as you can. That doesn't mean that you stop developing the attacking side of your game at all, just don't get hung up on not scoring tries etc. I'd study players like James Davies or Thomas Young who are very good over the ball, but are also good at tracking the attack so they can pop up on the shoulder of the player making the break. It sounds like that's what you're aiming for? It should also be useful for you to see when they're competing for the ball and when they're not.

Don't forget that it also depends on who you are playing with. In a good back row, you don't have to do it all, so if you're playing with the same 6 and 8 regularly, I'd hope your coach is thinking about how to make the most of each of your strengths.

As far as training goes, upper body strength can be overrated. I personally found core and leg workouts more effective as an open side. If your core and legs are strong, you should find you're harder to shift off the ball. I'd focus on squats, deadlifts and ab work outs that also include obliques etc.

The only slight caveat I'd make is that I was about the same size as you when I was your age and then promptly stopped growing. Obviously you have no control over how you grow, but I wish I'd worked on my passing game a lot more then because I ended up as a scrum half sized flanker which was always a bit of a limitation in getting beyond a certain level. Of course that may not happen to you at all, but it's a definite regret of mine.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd say that the major physical attributes to work on as a 7 are your pace and your fitness.

I play 8 for my county's U18s and we have 2 specialist 7s in the squad and I don't think that either weigh any more than 70kg, which at Colts age really isn't very large but when we're doing sprints both can pretty much keep up with the wings. At county level at least, the coaches really aren't fussed about the strength of 7s; it's all about mobility, so your main work ons in my opinion need to be:
A) Tackle count - set yourself targets each game of how many tackles you want to make; our 7s were told to make it into the teens at least, so you should aim for near that. That said, you do play less minutes at U14 so take that into account.
B) Turnovers - Lots of them. Again, set yourself targets. Defensively, try to position yourself around your centres where opposition runners are likely to be more isolated and you should be able to take advantage of that.
C) Support play - This is major. As I said, county coaches really aren't fussed about the strength and ball carrying of 7s; that's what 8s and to a lesser extent 6s are for. What they really want to see from 7s in attack is for you to always be on the shoulder of your major ball carriers (obviously this will vary from team to team but predominantly will be 6, 8, 12 and 13) either to immediately secure the ball once they go down or, and this is where the high levels of pace come in, to receive the offload and go through the holes that they create.

So as far as your S&C training goes I'd agree with BPM for the most part in that training your core is massive as it's what will allow you to be strong at the breakdown, but beyond that focus mostly on legs and shoulders. Chest, arms and back all help but they certainly aren't priorities. On top of that to build the pace/fitness obviously you need to be doing cardio but also plyometrics, so things like box jumps, jump squats etc. building that explosive power to get off of the mark quickly.

If you haven't already, watch the Leinster vs Saracens game from the weekend and keep your eyes on the Leinster 7, Dan Leavy. One of the most complete 7 performances you'll find, he was superb.

Hope this helps and good luck to you.

 

[j2s1l7y]

I'll give you my thoughts. I'm far from a pro, but as a long time, passionate back rower, I can relate to a lot of what you've said there.

It seems like you are doing a lot of the right things, but it also sounds a little bit like you are tying to be good at everything though which isn't necessarily realistic.

If you're good over the ball and a good tackler, I'd suggest playing to your strengths and looking to maximise them as much as you can. That doesn't mean that you stop developing the attacking side of your game at all, just don't get hung up on not scoring tries etc. I'd study players like James Davies or Thomas Young who are very good over the ball, but are also good at tracking the attack so they can pop up on the shoulder of the player making the break. It sounds like that's what you're aiming for? It should also be useful for you to see when they're competing for the ball and when they're not.

Don't forget that it also depends on who you are playing with. In a good back row, you don't have to do it all, so if you're playing with the same 6 and 8 regularly, I'd hope your coach is thinking about how to make the most of each of your strengths.

As far as training goes, upper body strength can be overrated. I personally found core and leg workouts more effective as an open side. If your core and legs are strong, you should find you're harder to shift off the ball. I'd focus on squats, deadlifts and ab work outs that also include obliques etc.

The only slight caveat I'd make is that I was about the same size as you when I was your age and then promptly stopped growing. Obviously you have no control over how you grow, but I wish I'd worked on my passing game a lot more then because I ended up as a scrum half sized flanker which was always a bit of a limitation in getting beyond a certain level. Of course that may not happen to you at all, but it's a definite regret of mine.

thank you very much for the advice and i will be sure to watch james davies and thomas young , and yes i always aim to practice passing anytime i can as our coach is handling mental!

 

[j2s1l7y]

I'd say that the major physical attributes to work on as a 7 are your pace and your fitness.

I play 8 for my county's U18s and we have 2 specialist 7s in the squad and I don't think that either weigh any more than 70kg, which at Colts age really isn't very large but when we're doing sprints both can pretty much keep up with the wings. At county level at least, the coaches really aren't fussed about the strength of 7s; it's all about mobility, so your main work ons in my opinion need to be:
A) Tackle count - set yourself targets each game of how many tackles you want to make; our 7s were told to make it into the teens at least, so you should aim for near that. That said, you do play less minutes at U14 so take that into account.
B) Turnovers - Lots of them. Again, set yourself targets. Defensively, try to position yourself around your centres where opposition runners are likely to be more isolated and you should be able to take advantage of that.
C) Support play - This is major. As I said, county coaches really aren't fussed about the strength and ball carrying of 7s; that's what 8s and to a lesser extent 6s are for. What they really want to see from 7s in attack is for you to always be on the shoulder of your major ball carriers (obviously this will vary from team to team but predominantly will be 6, 8, 12 and 13) either to immediately secure the ball once they go down or, and this is where the high levels of pace come in, to receive the offload and go through the holes that they create.

So as far as your S&C training goes I'd agree with BPM for the most part in that training your core is massive as it's what will allow you to be strong at the breakdown, but beyond that focus mostly on legs and shoulders. Chest, arms and back all help but they certainly aren't priorities. On top of that to build the pace/fitness obviously you need to be doing cardio but also plyometrics, so things like box jumps, jump squats etc. building that explosive power to get off of the mark quickly.

If you haven't already, watch the Leinster vs Saracens game from the weekend and keep your eyes on the Leinster 7, Dan Leavy. One of the most complete 7 performances you'll find, he was superb.

Hope this helps and good luck to you.

yes it is very helpful, and i watched dan leavy at the weekend and was amazed at his work , thank you very much for your advice ! and i m suprised that county arent as fussed about ball carying so i will definitely take that into account!

 

[curtbob7]

Im a 13 primarily but occasionally dabble with 7. Michael Hooper is the guy to watch for me.

There's this exercise where several rugby balls are placed into the inner ring of a massive tyre of some sort and you are tied with strong bands to someone holding them. You have to sprint from the outside inwards each time fetching one ball and the other guy putting more resistance on you with the bands. You can mix it up too by simply adding a couple guys with pads tryna bash you off your feet or they are in the way so you clear out first with resistance then fetch the ball. Its brilliant.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd advise you to keep working on your hands and kicking too, at 14 you could easily end up moving to a new position, centre could be a possibility.

 

[BPM]

yes it is very helpful, and i watched dan leavy at the weekend and was amazed at his work , thank you very much for your advice ! and i m suprised that county arent as fussed about ball carying so i will definitely take that into account!

I think Toby and I are making the same point about the carrying. Every team is different, but most of the 7s who score a decent amount of tries aren't busting through contact like an 8, they're on the shoulder of the ball carrier to take an offload. To be honest, I can think of many 7s who I'd describe as 'heavy carriers'.

I'd also agree on box jumps and resistance band work.

Just to clarify on my first post - I haven't grown in height from when I was a teenager, but I tend to hover at around 80-85kgs. I'm not a teenage sized Flanker!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think Toby and I are making the same point about the carrying. Every team is different, but most of the 7s who score a decent amount of tries aren't busting through contact like an 8, they're on the shoulder of the ball carrier to take an offload. To be honest, I can think of many 7s who I'd describe as 'heavy carriers'.

I'd also agree on box jumps and resistance band work.

Just to clarify on my first post - I haven't grown in height from when I was a teenager, but I tend to hover at around 80-85kgs. I'm not a teenage sized Flanker!

Absolutely what I meant; the Currys are very good examples of 7s that don't do much carrying themselves but score fairly often because they always get themselves in the right places to take the offload, and this will come from getting your fitness up.

The only heavy carrying 7 that I can think of is O'Brien, and he's not really a natural 7.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Squats and deadlifts for a U14? Maybe, but only under tight supervision from a coach who actually knows what they're talking about in the weights room.

Apart from what others have said I'd just advise the OP to play the long game. If you're already planning to train 5/6 times a week plus playing its odds on that you're going to become injured or bored in pretty short order. Counter intuitive for a teenager but listen to what the coaches who know you are saying (unless they're already telling you to train that much, in which case ignore them). You can increase the workload gradually and - cliche time - it's quality not quantity. And at sub 60kg you've got a heck of a lot of growing to do yet, who knows what position you may end up best suited to? Be open minded.

Rugby's a brilliant game that offers so much on so many levels. Chase your dreams, but do it smartly, seek (and take) good advice and don't forget to enjoy it along the way.

Wish I was U14 again!

 

[BPM]

Fair points on the deadlifts and squats.

 

[BPM]

Absolutely what I meant; the Currys are very good examples of 7s that don't do much carrying themselves but score fairly often because they always get themselves in the right places to take the offload, and this will come from getting your fitness up.

The only heavy carrying 7 that I can think of is O'Brien, and he's not really a natural 7.

O'Brien was exactly who came to mind for me too. Maybe Jake Polledri too, although you could argue he's more of a 6.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

O'Brien was exactly who came to mind for me too. Maybe Jake Polledri too, although you could argue he's more of a 6.

Polledri's similar to SOB in that I'd say he's clearly much more of a 6 than a 7 but due to the other players available to his club and country he's likely to get shoe-horned in as a 7. I'm a big fan of his though; hard to believe he's only 106kg. Carries like he's in the hundred and teens.

 

[Rinkadink]

The only slight caveat I'd make is that I was about the same size as you when I was your age and then promptly stopped growing. Obviously you have no control over how you grow, but I wish I'd worked on my passing game a lot more then because I ended up as a scrum half sized flanker which was always a bit of a limitation in getting beyond a certain level. Of course that may not happen to you at all, but it's a definite regret of mine.

So much this.

Keep your options open as much as you can.

 

[NewcastleFalcon]

I am 16 and playing in the back row, physically about 5 11 and weighing about 80kg. Currently i am a county player and would like some advice on what training routines i should be doing to help develop my game further. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance Michael

 

[j2s1l7y]

Im a 13 primarily but occasionally dabble with 7. Michael Hooper is the guy to watch for me.

There's this exercise where several rugby balls are placed into the inner ring of a massive tyre of some sort and you are tied with strong bands to someone holding them. You have to sprint from the outside inwards each time fetching one ball and the other guy putting more resistance on you with the bands. You can mix it up too by simply adding a couple guys with pads tryna bash you off your feet or they are in the way so you clear out first with resistance then fetch the ball. Its brilliant.

chers mate

 

[j2s1l7y]

I'd advise you to keep working on your hands and kicking too, at 14 you could easily end up moving to a new position, centre could be a possibility.

yeah good point thanks