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Wales - RWC Squad

How much of a second row option is Plumtree? Don't know much about him.

If he's being thought about as a versatile backrower, then Botham should be miffed, as he's had a great year + can genuinely play 6, 7, 8.
 
dullonien said:
How much of a second row option is Plumtree? Don't know much about him.

If he's being thought about as a versatile backrower, then Botham should be miffed, as he's had a great year + can genuinely play 6, 7, 8.
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Given how green he is I doubt he has any real experience in the row. He's 6,5 though apparently so an option. I also imagine he's played a little bit in the 2nd row but not sure really.
 
Welsh Exile said:
@dullonien what's your 33 man squad. You show me yours I'll show you mine. X
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Alright then.

1. Nicky Smith
2. Gareth Thomas
3. Corey Domachowski

4. Dewi Lake (c)
5. Eliot Dee
6. Sam Parry

7. Kieron Asseratti
8. Henry Thomas
9. Dillon Lewis

10. Will Rowlands
11. Dafydd Jenkins
12. Rhys Davies
13. Christ Tshiunza

14. Taulupe Faletau
15. Aaron Wainwright
16. Jack Morgan
17. Tommy Reffell
18. Taine Basham
19. Taine Plumtree

20. Gareth Davies
21. Tomos Williams
22. Kieran Hardy

23. Gareth Anscombe
24. Dan Biggar
25. Sam Costellow

26. George North
27. Johnny Williams
28. Max Llywellyn
29. Mason Grady

30. Josh Adams
31. LRZ
32. Rio Dyer
33. Liam Williams

For me, Tomos Francis looks finished, so unless there's been a marked improvement in camp, he should miss out for me. I'm not a fan of Elias at hooker, his throwing can be really poor, although same can be said of Lake and Parry too! I've been quite vocal about Beard recently, I just don't see what he brings outside the maul. He's too passive in the carry and tackling which means the rest of the pack carry him for 90% of the game.

Backrow is a little tricky in a way. I love all three 7's, so couldn't bring myself to leave one out, but 3 out and out 7's could be a luxury we can't afford in a 33 man squad. I'm a fan of Lydiate, but when was the last time he strung a meaningful string of games together? That, coupled with his age, aren't a good combo for a wc squad place. Tshiunza and Plumtree are versatile players who can cover multiple positions. Taking a complete punt on Plumtree though, as I've never seen him play! Still think Gat's was wrong to ignore both Botham and Morris from his backrow pool, especially with Faletau now missing most the the training camps!

I don't see how Owen Williams or Cuthbert can be in contention after missing all the pre WC training camps, so I'm ignoring them. I really wanted to include Kieran Williams as well, but that would be a very green set of centres! North is lucky to make it, but his versatility of being able to slot onto the wing helps his cause + hoping he can rediscover his best form. Grady also offers some cover on the wing, as such I've only picked 4 back 3 players - don't think the others in the wider squad (Halfpenny, Rogers, Evans or Cuthbert) are really good enough to go. If I had to pick one more though, maybe at the expense of a backrower, I'd probably go with Rogers, as he's got the raw ingredients.
 
dullonien said:
Alright then.

1. Nicky Smith
2. Gareth Thomas
3. Corey Domachowski

4. Dewi Lake (c)
5. Eliot Dee
6. Sam Parry

7. Kieron Asseratti
8. Henry Thomas
9. Dillon Lewis

10. Will Rowlands
11. Dafydd Jenkins
12. Rhys Davies
13. Christ Tshiunza

14. Taulupe Faletau
15. Aaron Wainwright
16. Jack Morgan
17. Tommy Reffell
18. Taine Basham
19. Taine Plumtree

20. Gareth Davies
21. Tomos Williams
22. Kieran Hardy

23. Gareth Anscombe
24. Dan Biggar
25. Sam Costellow

26. George North
27. Johnny Williams
28. Max Llywellyn
29. Mason Grady

30. Josh Adams
31. LRZ
32. Rio Dyer
33. Liam Williams

For me, Tomos Francis looks finished, so unless there's been a marked improvement in camp, he should miss out for me. I'm not a fan of Elias at hooker, his throwing can be really poor, although same can be said of Lake and Parry too! I've been quite vocal about Beard recently, I just don't see what he brings outside the maul. He's too passive in the carry and tackling which means the rest of the pack carry him for 90% of the game.

Backrow is a little tricky in a way. I love all three 7's, so couldn't bring myself to leave one out, but 3 out and out 7's could be a luxury we can't afford in a 33 man squad. I'm a fan of Lydiate, but when was the last time he strung a meaningful string of games together? That, coupled with his age, aren't a good combo for a wc squad place. Tshiunza and Plumtree are versatile players who can cover multiple positions. Taking a complete punt on Plumtree though, as I've never seen him play! Still think Gat's was wrong to ignore both Botham and Morris from his backrow pool, especially with Faletau now missing most the the training camps!

I don't see how Owen Williams or Cuthbert can be in contention after missing all the pre WC training camps, so I'm ignoring them. I really wanted to include Kieran Williams as well, but that would be a very green set of centres! North is lucky to make it, but his versatility of being able to slot onto the wing helps his cause + hoping he can rediscover his best form. Grady also offers some cover on the wing, as such I've only picked 4 back 3 players - don't think the others in the wider squad (Halfpenny, Rogers, Evans or Cuthbert) are really good enough to go. If I had to pick one more though, maybe at the expense of a backrower, I'd probably go with Rogers, as he's got the raw ingredients.
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I would be very happy with that squad. I wouldn't make many changes but I would probably throw Elias in there instead of Parry as I think his form did turn a corner slightly before his last injury. I would probably throw Lydiate in over Plumtree mainly because I don't know anything about Plumtree but if he was pulling up trees in training I would be happy to keep him in. I'd like to have Kieran Williams over Max Llywellyn but that one is a really tough call and Max, on paper, might make more sense but I'm biased towards the Neath boys.
 
I would be tempted to have Rogers in there but as long as Halfpenny isn't taking his slot I'm happy, plus we have enough cover at 15 in that squad with Adams, LRZ and Anscombe. We all know Halfpenny, Beard and Francis are shoo-ins though.
 
Squad announced tomorrow. WOL have Basham in which he obviously should be on merit but I'm not sure. I'm not expecting any real surprises but I'm usually wrong.
 
Wales - forwards (19): Taine Basham, Adam Beard, Elliot Dee, Corey Domachowski, Ryan Elias, Taulupe Faletau, Tomas Francis, Dafydd Jenkins, Dewi Lake, Dillon Lewis, Dan Lydiate, Jac Morgan, Tommy Reffell, Will Rowlands, Nicky Smith, Gareth Thomas, Henry Thomas, Christ Tshiunza, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs (14): Josh Adams, Gareth Anscombe, Dan Biggar, Sam Costelow, Gareth Davies, Rio Dyer, Mason Grady, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Louis Rees-Zammit, Nick Tompkins, Johnny Williams, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams
 
Yey Basham Boo no Kieran Williams.

Tshiunza down as a lock? Would be good if so. Didn't expect all of Lydiate, Tshiunza,
Reffell, Basham and Morgan to be selected.
 
Shocked Lydiate got a call up, but given Tsiunza is in as lock cover he is a luxury for experience against maybe Portugal and Georgia.carter looked underpowered still.

Costelow is lucky all real 10 options are unavailable through a number of reasons, in the 2nd minute watching an international player throw himself to the ground to avoid contact screamed Welsh prem.

Aside from that as expected, not a quality squad though. Wales RWC final really will be Fiji, win that and qualifying and a shot at a semi final is on the cards, lose it and the group is wide open.

I hope Gatland doesnt make wholesale changes between games 1/2 and 2/3 though, and hamper momentum
 
dirty harry said:
Shocked Lydiate got a call up, but given Tsiunza is in as lock cover he is a luxury for experience against maybe Portugal and Georgia.carter looked underpowered still.

Costelow is lucky all real 10 options are unavailable through a number of reasons, in the 2nd minute watching an international player throw himself to the ground to avoid contact screamed Welsh prem.

Aside from that as expected, not a quality squad though. Wales RWC final really will be Fiji, win that and qualifying and a shot at a semi final is on the cards, lose it and the group is wide open.

I hope Gatland doesnt make wholesale changes between games 1/2 and 2/3 though, and hamper momentum
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Priestland and Patchell being the unavailable 10s you mentioned? I think Anscombe is the lucky one to be honest. Tompkins as well but I see what you're saying. Really it will, and always was about, wrapping Biggar up in cotton wool. Post WC I don't know what the plan moving forward will be.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Priestland and Patchell being the unavailable 10s you mentioned? I think Anscombe is the lucky one to be honest. Tompkins as well but I see what you're saying. Really it will, and always was about, wrapping Biggar up in cotton wool. Post WC I don't know what the plan moving forward will be.
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I think Costelow is the plan going forward.

I agree with Anscombe, although at least he can cope with the physicality of international rugby, Costelow clearly cant. I'd prefer to see Owen William's. I rate Costelow as I do Ben Thomas.

I'm still stunned Cuthbert and Lydiate made the 48 with Lane and Youngs left out. Both excelling for Cardiff this season, and young enough to really benefit from camp. Lane would certainly have given a better show against SA than Roger's did, that was embarrassingly poor.
 
Probably as expected really. There are some real issues with this squad though.

Our tighthead options are frankly terrible. I was really hoping Asseratti could show some promise ib the warm-ups as we despirately needed another option. Henry Thomas looked meh v SA.

Lydiate is past it. Really surprised he made the final squad after those poor showings v England and SA where he gave away offside penalties and missed tackles. All of Jim Botham, Morgan Morris and Thomas Young should be there ahead of him, although Young maybe ahead of Reffell who struggled v Eng.

Centres are looking very weak imo. Johnny Williams was poor v SA. Grady is inconsistent. North, whilst good defensively, has been ordinary at best. Tompkins flatters to decieve. Imo Joe Roberts is our most rounded option at 13 and was one of the few positives in that second England game. Crying shame that Kieran Williams wasn't given enough time to prove himself.

Faletau and Anscombe's inclusions are a sign of a lack of depth in certain positions. Huge gamble to take them when there's only 2 scrum halves in the squad!

Oh and Beard can do one!
 
dirty harry said:
I think Costelow is the plan going forward.

I agree with Anscombe, although at least he can cope with the physicality of international rugby, Costelow clearly cant. I'd prefer to see Owen William's. I rate Costelow as I do Ben Thomas.

I'm still stunned Cuthbert and Lydiate made the 48 with Lane and Youngs left out. Both excelling for Cardiff this season, and young enough to really benefit from camp. Lane would certainly have given a better show against SA than Roger's did, that was embarrassingly poor.
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Can Anscombe cope physically? I know in the sense you mean but he's done noting at even regional level to suggest he's what he was. I think you're being a tad harsh on Costelow though not completely unwarranted.

I agree on Lane and I think Gatland was at least a fan but to be fair he's been injured quite a lot this season and i guess we've already got the big, fast lump in the midfield in Grady. He could've taken him as a wing option over Dyer but I'm a bit meh on that. I actually think Rogers did ok all things considered and I would take him as a full back option over Halfpenny to be honest. Surprised Lane he wasn't at least in the training squad, though as he's versatile. But as I say I think injuries maybe held him back this year.

The argument used against Youngs inclusion (which I think is a fair one) is that he wasn't in competition with Lydiate but Basham, Reffell and Morgan. Gatland wants a big lump at 6. I think not having a look at Botham was more of a mistake than Youngs even though I rate Youngs a lot it's just we have good depth there unfortunately for him.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Can Anscombe cope physically? I know in the sense you mean but he's done noting at even regional level to suggest he's what he was. I think you're being a tad harsh on Costelow though not completely unwarranted.

I agree on Lane and I think Gatland was at least a fan but to be fair he's been injured quite a lot this season and i guess we've already got the big, fast lump in the midfield in Grady. He could've taken him as a wing option over Dyer but I'm a bit meh on that. I actually think Rogers did ok all things considered and I would take him as a full back option over Halfpenny to be honest. Surprised Lane he wasn't at least in the training squad, though as he's versatile. But as I say I think injuries maybe held him back this year.

The argument used against Youngs inclusion (which I think is a fair one) is that he wasn't in competition with Lydiate but Basham, Reffell and Morgan. Gatland wants a big lump at 6. I think not having a look at Botham was more of a mistake than Youngs even though I rate Youngs a lot it's just we have good depth there unfortunately for him.
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Having watches the first 2 games now I think you are right on Anscombe, what a shambles he was against Portugal.

I was in the stadium and I genuinely thought Dillon Lewis chipped, chased and was beaten to the ball by the loose head.

Still dislike Costello, hes so small and clearly intimidated by contact.

Grady showed how unready he is, big physical and fast but lacking all skills needed, maybe you were right and Grady is the final wing option
 
dirty harry said:
Having watches the first 2 games now I think you are right on Anscombe, what a shambles he was against Portugal.

I was in the stadium and I genuinely thought Dillon Lewis chipped, chased and was beaten to the ball by the loose head.

Still dislike Costello, hes so small and clearly intimidated by contact.

Grady showed how unready he is, big physical and fast but lacking all skills needed, maybe you were right and Grady is the final wing option
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I think Costelow is a gutsy little player which you saw when he came on against Fiji. He put his body on the line on a couple of occasions so disagree with you there but yes, naturally, I was right about Anscombe. Was very lucky to be selected. Personally I think if you payed no mins in the warm ups then you shouldn't go with the exception of Faletau.
 

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