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Wales: Summer roundup

Draggs

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Well, it was a mixed summer for Welsh rugby supporters. The sadness of the Japanese tour was shattered by the delight of the Lions win in Australia. Two Welsh captains featured heavily, Sam Warburton and Alun Wyn Jones. Jonathan Davies had more time on field than any other player, while George North's impact was felt across the field in the tests. The question is, can these players bring it back home? Can Wales finally get the southern hemisphere monkey off it's back? Wales host South Africa, Argentina, Tonga, and Australia in November. Three of these teams have beaten Wales in their last meeting, and the record for some goes back much further.

An unconvincing first test win in Osaka was followed by a deserved loss in Tokyo, but little has been made of these results. Partially overshadowed by the Lions, and also because of the players selected. Some chosen would barely be considered third choice for their club, yet started a test. This doesn't excuse the loss, but damns the selectors. Regardless of the makeup, a loss is a loss. While 15 players were missing due to the Lions tour, including every starter in the Six Nations Championship decided v England except Dan Biggar, many who would have slotted in with little issue were left at home. Ill thought-out squads were named, including an abysmally incapable backrow, named to supposedly develop number 8 depth.

There was some solace, with the U20 side reaching the Junior World Championship final. Outside half Sam Davies starred in the powerful side, along with captain Ellis Jenkins and fullback Jordan Williams. We love to hype our young players, so expect nothing different this year.

Since I have been getting good at depth charts, I might as well do one here. I'll go to a few levels so assess how strong we really are. (Based upon recent selections)

15 Leigh Halfpenny | Liam Williams | Lee Byrne
14 Alex Cuthbert | Harry Robinson | Dafydd Howells
13 Jonathan Davies | Scott Williams | Owen Williams
12 Jamie Roberts | Ashley Beck | Jonathan Spratt
11 George North | Eli Walker | Tom Prydie
10 Dan Biggar | Rhys Priestland | Rhys Patchell
09 Mike Phillips | Lloyd Williams | Tavis Knoyle

01 Gethin Jenkins | Paul James | Ryan Bevington
02 Richard Hibbard | Ken Owens | Matthew Rees
03 Adam Jones | Scott Andrews | Craig Mitchell
04 Alun Wyn Jones | Bradley Davies | Lou Reed
05 Ian Evans | Luke Charteris | Andrew Coombs
06 Dan Lydiate | Ryan Jones | Aaron Shingler
07 Sam Warburton | Justin Tipuric | Josh Navidi
08 Toby Faletau | Andries Pretorius (?) | Rob McCusker

Very week at number 8, neither Andries nor Rob were convincing in Japan. The best 8 coming through seems to be Ieuan Jones, who is likely to take over from Toby Faletau while he is on international duty. I'd put a few different players in personally, but this is 'inspired' by the recent squads.
 
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Hanno Dirksen to claim a place whenever he qualifies next year.

Would also have Fussell. (Ahead of Liam Williams?)

Also, Ryan Jones to 8, and Aaron Shingler in at 6.

Maybe have Cory Allen on the fringes for development, instead of Spratt? (Let's face it, the pecking order at 12 would have Scott Williams in to partner Davies, rather than bring Spratt in, right?)
 
Hanno Dirksen to claim a place whenever he qualifies next year.

Would also have Fussell. (Ahead of Liam Williams?)

Also, Ryan Jones to 8, and Aaron Shingler in at 6.

Maybe have Cory Allen on the fringes for development, instead of Spratt? (Let's face it, the pecking order at 12 would have Scott Williams in to partner Davies, rather than bring Spratt in, right?)

Forgot about Aaron, still, Ryan is mostly a blindside now, and I am looking at primary position here.
Dirksen will take time once he gets back, sounds like his injury was pretty nasty.
Only added Spratt due to his recent selection. I'd pick Roger Bidgood ahead of him.
 
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This seems like a better place to post the essay I was writing for the other thread that descended into horsesh*t. I'll just finish it now....
 
This is going to be a long post, over 3,500 words in fact……

The way I see it, Wales simply have to take the next step that has alluded us for so long, and actually start beating the SH big three on a consistent basis over the next 18 months, starting with this Autumn. Beating Aus really should be a realistic goal, whilst SA shouldn’t be out of reach. NZ is altogether a tougher challenge, where a 60 year losing run brings its own pressure, but if we could first get wins against Aus and SA, the confidence would be there to really take it to NZ next year.

I do feel like a stuck record here though, as I’ve been saying the same thing for the past two seasons. I’ve believed that the current crop of Welsh players are good enough to beat Aus in particular, whilst SA doesn’t strike fear into me anymore, but there’s just been something missing. I hope that the influence of the Lions tour will be the final push for those players involved, and their confidence should filter down to the rest of the Welsh squad. This still needs to be realised though….

Injuries are out of our control though, and this is where Wales still fall short of the best I feel. The strength in depth is increasing in many positions, but there are some players we realistically can’t lose, and still challenge the top teams. This is how I view the current strength in depth of the Welsh national side:

Loosehead: Gethin Jenkins, Paul James > Rhys Gill > Ryan Bevington > Rhodri Jones >>> Rob Evans.

Gethin Jenkins and Paul James are two top props, but Gethin’s recent injury problems are a big worry. As such, we really could do with another international class looshead in reserve.

I think Gill offers that cover. Next in line is Bevington who has shown huge potential, but his inconsistency really worries me. He needs to knuckle down and start performing week-in-week-out for the Ospreys and fulfil his potential.

Rhodri Jones should be viewed as an out-and-out looshead, none of this ‘convert him to a tighthead’ nonsense. Maybe then he can develop. Rob Evans is on the radar, but won’t be a realistic option until post RWC 2015.

Prognosis: healthy, but a real push by Bevington or Jones is needed to improve competition.

Hooker: Richard Hibbard, Ken Owens > Matthew Rees >> Scott Baldwin, Emyr Phillips, Sam Parry >> Kirby Myhill.

I feel that we’re reasonably well stocked here. Hibbard and Owens complement each other well, and there’s always the experienced Rees to fall back on if required. Baldwin, Phillips and Parry have the potential, but need to really step-up next season to really push for places. Kirby Myhill’s professional career hasn’t really taken off yet, but I’m expecting a lot from him, although RWC 2015 is likely too soon.

Prognosis: not bad.

Tighthead: Adam Jones >>> Craig Mitchell > Scott Andrews, Aaron Jarvis > Samson Lee.

Will we ever be able to replace Adam Jones? Not currently. He is our scrimmaging rock, and without him we’re vulnerable. We desperately need at least one player to step up to the plate here, capable of anchoring the scrum. Mitchell looked promising, but his form has stuttered of late after a string of injuries.

I still have big question marks over Andrews’ scrummaging, next season at the Blues will reveal a lot alongside two international players in Jenkins and Rees.

Jarvis is a limited player, but is a half decent scrummager, but consider me wholly uninspired by him.

This brings me to Samson Lee. I have high hopes for Lee, I think he’s developing quickly as a scrummager, and could be a real force given time. Realistically though, it’s going to take more time than we have between now and RWC 2015, although stranger things have happened.

Prognosis: problem position.

Second row: Alun-Wyn Jones > Ian Evans, Luke Charteris > Bradley Davies, Andrew Coombs > Lou Reed, Lloyd Peers.

AWJ has developed into one of the finest locks in world rugby imo. He took his game to another level during the Lions tour, and given his consistency and durability he’s going to be the heart of the Welsh pack for years to come. Alongside him, Ian Evans or Charteris both provide the tactical expertise in the lineout and solid grunt to form a strong combination. I’m very happy with that trio.

Bradley Davies really needs to wake-up, because he’s drifting further and further behind imo. I’ve not been impressed with him for quite some time, either for the Blues or Wales, and I find it incredible that he captained Wales in Japan. Coombs on the other hand really stepped up to the plate in the 6 nations, the challenge for him is to continue that this season with the Dragons.

I’d prefer it if Lou Reed were jettisoned tbh, but he seems to be in the coaches good books. Peers is developing quickly though, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he forces his way into the Welsh squad come RWC 2015 if he can get enough game time for the Ospreys with Jones and Evans there.

Prognosis: encouraging.

Blindside: Dan Lydiate, Ryan Jones, Sam Warburton > Aaron Shingler > James King, Andries Pretorius > Josh Turnbull >> Rob McCusker, Ellis Jenkins.

A little spoilt for choice tbh. We’ve got a blindside to fit any game plan we choose to employ.

Lydiate is a workaholic in the tight with his tackling, rucking and even carrying (despite what some believe). Ryan Jones offers huge experience, and the tactical nous to quickly realise when defences leave gaps behind the ruck and exploit that space (along with AWJ). Whilst Warburton is an openside, he’s shown that he can switch to the blindside, alongside Tipuric, and cause havoc. He, Tips and Faletau provided a backrow master class against England, and that backrow deserves another shot to prove it wasn’t a one-off.

Shingler fell off somewhat towards the end of last season, but he again offers something a little different, genuine pace that rivals Croft, and a lovely pair of hands.

Whilst King didn’t make the transition to international rugby that most hoped in Japan, he was still a stand-out performer for the O’s last season, and offers a very rounded skillset. It’s not completely certain what his best position is, but to me he looks like more of a blindside than a lock.

For me, Pretorius is a blindside, but with a lack of 8’s at the Blues and for Wales, he’ll probably be viewed as an 8 for the foreseeable future. I don’t think we’ll see the best from him because of this, although it may boost his international chances.

With Barclay joining the Scarlets, and Dan Thomas ready to step-up (imo), hopefully Turnbull can return to the blindside flank where he started. He’s got a lot to do to overtake those in front of him though. Similarly, McCucker’s best position is at blindside, although I just don’t think he’s anywhere near good enough. He’s just not a smart enough player, taking wrong options and conceding penalties and yellow cards at alarming frequency.

Lastly I want to mention Ellis Jenkins. It’s uncertain atm whether he’s viewed at a 6 or 7, but given that the Blues have Warbs and Navidi at 7, I’d hazard a guess that he may be developed as a 6. He was outstanding in the JWC, and was similarly excellent last season for the U20’s. I’m excited about his potential.

Prognosis: hell yeah!

Openside: Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric >> Josh Navidi > Sam Lewis, Lewis Evans > Daniel Thomas, Ellis Jenkins.

At first glance we appear well stocked here, but Warburton’s injury track record does ****le at me a little. I feel we need to develop a third option just in case. Navidi and Sam Lewis are developing nicely at their regions, whilst Ellis Jenkins (if he’s considered in the role at the Blues) and Dan Thomas have a lot of potential. Lewis Evans has had some decent spells at the Dragons, but I suspect he falls short of the quality we need.

Prognosis: what team wouldn’t be happy with Warburton and Tipuric battling it out for the next 10 years?

Number 8: Toby Faletau>> (Gareth Delve)>>> Ieuan Jones, Dan Baker, Morgan Allen, Kieran Murphy.

Toby Faletau makes for a lonely presence atm. Bloody good player mind. With Delve likely out of the picture, we desperately need to develop some cover here. McBryde’s (and the regions) plan of playing blindsides at 8 really doesn’t cut it.

Jones, Baker and Allen have potential, especially Ieuan Jones, but are any of them going to be ready in time for RWC 2015? Murphy showed glimpses at the Scarlets, but now he’s moved, he’ll likely to out of the frame. Ryan Jones could fill-in in an emergency, but he’s really not an 8 anymore.

This imo is our biggest problem area, because two out of the four regions (Blues & Scarlets) are playing players out of position at 8, the O’s have a 34y/o playing there (I wish Bearman was 5 years younger), leaving the Dragons who have Faletau and the most promising prospect Ieuan Jones, good on em’.

Prognosis: help!

Scrum half: Mike Phillips? >> Lloyd Williams > Tavis Knoyle, Rhodri Williams, Tom Habberfield, Aled Davies > Jonathan Evans, Gareth Davies, Rhys Webb.

Will Phillips really retire? Is it even bad for Wales if he does? At the moment we don’t have the calibre of player to replace him, but replacing Phillips with a speedy, classy scrum half could really add potency to the Welsh backline imo.

Lloyd Williams has been Phillips’ understudy for the last couple of years, but he’s flattered to deceive somewhat. The same can be said of Tavis Knoyle, who started his career with a bang, but has fizzled out. Rhys Webb has all the tools, but is unfortunately missing a brain. I thought the same of Lee Byrne for a long time though, and he managed to turn things around, but it’s a long-shot.

So maybe the three youngsters at the Scarlets, Tom Habberfield and Jonathan Evans offer our best hope for the future. You’d expect at least one of that lot to progress, and personally I’m backing Habberfield and Rhodri Williams, as imo they are the most well rounded candidates. Aled Davies and Jonathan Evans are both classy players mind. I feel Gareth Davies is possibly missing something, but then he makes a few scything breaks for the Scarlets and changes my mind. The Scarlets really need to decide their pecking order, because I’m not too sure changing scrum half every game is doing either the 9’s, or the rest of the team too much good. There is one less there this season with Knoyle having moved to Gloucester.

Prognosis: I’ll get back to you…

Outside half: Dan Biggar > Rhys Priestland, James Hook > Rhys Patchell > Jason Tovey, Matthew Morgan, Sam Davies, Owen Williams, Jordan Williams?

I feel that a lot of people feel that Biggar isn’t good enough to be our 10 going forwards, but I think he could be a good calming influence, steering the ship, with a good kicking game and distribution, standing flat to draw defences. He can also challenge defences on occasion, whilst his defence is reasonably good. Sometimes Welsh fans are overly obsessed with flashy outside halves, in their search for another Barry John, but how many 10’s of that nature flourish in modern rugby? Not many.

With Halfpenny kicking, it does open up the option of having a real playmaker at 10, but do we really have a player to fill that role atm? A lot of people in Wales would shout Hook’s name to that question, but I really don’t know what to make of Hook atm. He’s an incredibly talented player, but his form for Wales over the last couple of seasons has been poor when given a chance. The Welsh management don’t seem to like him either.

Priestland was a revelation at the 2011 RWC, but he’s struggled to reach that kind of form since, and tbf has been rather poor for both the Scarlets and Wales ever since. He does offer a nicely balanced game when on-form, although his defence is on the poor side, but until he produces something for the Scarlets again, he really should not be considered for Wales. Place kicking did seem to weigh down on him, so maybe without that burden he’ll regain some confidence, although maybe the Scarlets don’t have that luxury.

Patchell is on the rise, and he will be the Blues first choice 10 next season, so will have plenty of opportunities to develop his game and push his case. Hopefully his confidence wasn’t shaken out in Japan where he had to rather unfairly (or unfortunately) fill in at outside centre.

Sam Davies is being hyped by many, especially by those who’ve only really seen him play at the JWC this year. Yes he was great during that campaign, but imo he’s a very similar player to Biggar, and for that reason may struggle to dislodge the more experienced, yet still young Biggar at the O’s.

Tovey has moved back to the Dragons, but he really needs to get out of the rut he’s been in. His ability to unlock defences with his passing game would suit Wales well on paper, especially without the kicking duties, but he’s not pushed on as expected.

Owen Williams looked promising last season, but I’m not sure his move to Leicester will pay off. If he can develop there and get regular game time in the coming seasons, he’d have put himself in a strong position, but I’m not sure I see it myself.

There are two hugely exciting players left, Matthew Morgan and Jordan Williams. Both have been described by their regions as the most talented players they’ve had come through their academy’s, but both have a challenge to stand up physically to professional rugby. Matthew Morgan has really struggled for the O’s though. Depending on how he develops this coming season, I’d be tempted if I were the O’s management to try him on the wing, where he wouldn’t be so exposed defensively, and he can just concentrate on roaming the pitch and beating defenders. Whilst Jordan plays at 10 for Llanelli, but has stated that he prefers the extra space and freedom of playing fullback.

Prognosis: Unsettled.

Inside Centre: Jamie Roberts >> Ashley Beck > Steven Shingler > Cory Allen, Jack Dixon.

Whilst Roberts is a proven international player of the highest calibre, there’s still part of me that feels that Wales lack creativity at 12, and this limits the potency of our outside backs. Whilst getting over the gainline is an important aspect of breaking down the organised defences of modern rugby, it shouldn’t be the be all and end all. Roberts is one of the ultimate smashers in the game, with a defensive game to match, but I’d love to see Beck get more game time to see if he can use his offloading and distribution to add more potency to the Welsh backline. I’m not saying drop Roberts, but exploring other options should still be done.

Shingler also offers a similar option, a second 5/8’th type of player which is so popular down South. If he can settle in well at the Scarlets, he’ll be in with a shout of making future Welsh squads given his versatility.

Two young options are Allen and Dixon. I’m sure many are aware that I have high hopes for Allen, who combines power with pace, skill and vision. He’s starred at U20 level and with the 7’s, but as yet hasn’t been given a shot at the Blues. This season should remedy that if Phil Davies has any sense. Dixon is already a regular starter for the Dragons, and was integral to the success of the U20’s this season. Under the guidance of Lyn Jones, I expect him to develop over the coming seasons. Both could be viewed as outside centres as well, but I feel that they will be played at inside centre for their regions due to a lack of alternatives.

Do I even mention the orange one?

Prognosis: healthy enough.

Outside Centre: Jon Davies, Jamie Roberts >> James Hook, Scott Williams > Owen Williams > Nick Reynolds, Andrew Bishop.

Roberts could also be utilised at outside centre if Beck forces his way into the reckoning. As for Davies, I thought he matured somewhat as a player on the Lions tour, and showed that with work his passing game can improve. The rest of his game is already at a high standard, but he needs to keep working on his passing so that opportunities don’t go begging with an overthrown pass into touch.

James Hook has arguably produced some of his best rugby for Wales at outside centre, where he has a little more time. He seems intent on playing at 10 though, which could limit his chances in the centre for Wales.

Scott Williams has done some good things for Wales, but has also made his fair share of blunders. He seems to be living off that game winning try v’s England somewhat, but a lot of people seem to forget the try he butchered earlier in the game. Needs to show more tactical nous and awareness to really push for a starting spot, and I don’t think he currently has the ability to do so.

I thought Owen Williams was one of the few players to have played well on the Japan Tour. Hopefully he’s played in the centre for the Blues this season, not just used as filler on the wing where he lacks the pace to be truly effective. I think an Allen-Williams combo could work well, time will tell if Davies and co. can see past Gavin Evans and Dafydd Hewitt.

Bishop is the forgotten man after a season out. He’s a limited player, but in an emergency he’s not a bad player to have available. Reynolds career for the Scarlets has been a little stop-start. I think he’s got something about him, but I am still undecided.

Prognosis: Again, reasonable healthy.

Wing: George North, Alex Cuthbert > Eli Wales > Liam Williams, Hanno Dirksen (when qualified) > Harry Robinson >> Tom Prydie, Dafydd Howells.

There’s a little more strength developing here, although that hasn’t transferred into the national team just yet with Eli being injured for the last half of last season. North and Cuthbert are clearly first choices atm, but I’m eagerly anticipating Eli Wales’ debut (as long as he returns to form quickly). I think he could offer something very different. Still it’s difficult not to be happy with North’s all round quality, and Cuthbert’s finishing prowess.

Liam Williams offers an option on the wing. I expect Dirksen to opt to play for Wales. Rightly or wrongly, he’s too good a player to pass-up if he does make himself available once qualified.

Prydie remains the youngest player to ever play for Wales, but he hasn’t really developed in the way Gats envisaged. He didn’t really set the world alight for the Dragons last season, although his boot can be useful. There’s a lot of hype surrounding Dafydd Howells, but Regional rugby comes first for him.

Halfpenny could always switch to the wing in an emergency, but I’d do everything I can to keep him at fullback.

Prognosis: depth is shallow at the moment, but should grow.

Fullback: Leigh Halfpenny >>>> Lee Byrne, Liam Williams, Richard Fussell >> Dan Fish, Hallam Amos, Jordan Williams, Tom Prydie > Ross Jones.

Halfpenny is up there with the best in the world, an integral part of the Welsh team. But the backup atm is a little shaky tbh. I feel that Byrne has been jettisoned too soon, because he’s still a top operator for Clermont, a solid performer with few weaknesses to his game. At 33, there’s a chance he could make the next WC, but far from a certainty.

Liam Williams and James Hook have been the main alternatives. Hook really isn’t a fullback, lacking pace to really make an impact from so deep. His running style doesn’t suit the position either imo. Williams has been OK, but is still inconsistent, and still learning. Needs to watch his temper, which can get the better of him on occasion. No denying his enthusiasm though!

Despite a fine couple of seasons for the O’s, Fussell has been overlooked for Wales, and I can’t see that changing after not even making the Japan tour. Cymro has questioned his consistency in the past, and I see where he’s coming from. He has more good days than bad, but it does raise question marks about whether he could make the step-up to international rugby.

Fish and Amos are two promising players. Fish may struggle for regional game time behind Halfpenny, but Amos will likely be first choice at the Dragons next season. Jordan Williams and Prydie could come into the reckoning here as well.

After some fine performances for Wales at U20 level, Ross Jones really struggled at times for the Ospreys last season. His performance against Leinster really highlighted just how much work he needs to do on his defence before he’s ready for regional rugby, let alone international.

Prognosis: needs strengthening.
 
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Loosehead: Gethin Jenkins, Paul James > Rhys Gill > Ryan Bevington > Rhodri Jones >>> Rob Evans.

Gethin Jenkins and Paul James are two top props, but Gethin’s recent injury problems are a big worry. As such, we really could do with another international class looshead in reserve.

I think Gill offers that cover. Next in line is Bevington who has shown huge potential, but his inconsistency really worries me. He needs to knuckle down and start performing week-in-week-out for the Ospreys and fulfil his potential.

Rhodri Jones should be viewed as an out-and-out looshead, none of this ‘convert him to a tighthead’ nonsense. Maybe then he can develop. Rob Evans is on the radar, but won’t be a realistic option until post RWC 2015.

Prognosis: healthy, but a real push by Bevington or Jones is needed to improve competition.
Couple of disagreements here: I think that Bevington should be third choice in the pecking order. If he isn't already ahead of Gill, he will be within two years.

My other slightly more major disagreement, is that I don't really think that Wales are as strong in this position as you think. There's the post-WC worry of a potential double retirement of Jenkins and James, leaving Wales a little bare. But I assume you're talking about a prognosis looking towards the WC. In which case, Jenkins and James are old enough that an injury may retire them, or set them too far back to recover international form from. Or they may be on a decline. Jenkins has always prided himself on being able to get around the park for a loosehead... will he be able to do this when the WC comes around, at nearly 35 years old?

Hooker: Richard Hibbard, Ken Owens > Matthew Rees >> Scott Baldwin, Emyr Phillips, Sam Parry >> Kirby Myhill.

I feel that we’re reasonably well stocked here. Hibbard and Owens complement each other well, and there’s always the experienced Rees to fall back on if required. Baldwin, Phillips and Parry have the potential, but need to really step-up next season to really push for places. Kirby Myhill’s professional career hasn’t really taken off yet, but I’m expecting a lot from him, although RWC 2015 is likely too soon.

Prognosis: not bad.
Agreed completely.

Tighthead: Adam Jones >>> Craig Mitchell > Scott Andrews, Aaron Jarvis > Samson Lee.

Will we ever be able to replace Adam Jones? Not currently. He is our scrimmaging rock, and without him we’re vulnerable. We desperately need at least one player to step up to the plate here, capable of anchoring the scrum. Mitchell looked promising, but his form has stuttered of late after a string of injuries.

I still have big question marks over Andrews’ scrummaging, next season at the Blues will reveal a lot alongside two international players in Jenkins and Rees.

Jarvis is a limited player, but is a half decent scrummager, but consider me wholly uninspired by him.

This brings me to Samson Lee. I have high hopes for Lee, I think he’s developing quickly as a scrummager, and could be a real force given time. Realistically though, it’s going to take more time than we have between now and RWC 2015, although stranger things have happened.

Prognosis: problem position.
Pretty much the same position as loosehead. I have less of a worry about Adam Jones losing form as he ages compared to Jenkins/James though. Jones is a scrummager first and foremost, and people build strength with age. His workrate will probably worsen, but I think he can sustain his strength in the scrum. He's also a better player than Jenkins/James. The difference is, there are two good loosehead options, and only one really good tighthead option.

Second row: Alun-Wyn Jones > Ian Evans, Luke Charteris > Bradley Davies, Andrew Coombs > Lou Reed, Lloyd Peers.

AWJ has developed into one of the finest locks in world rugby imo. He took his game to another level during the Lions tour, and given his consistency and durability he’s going to be the heart of the Welsh pack for years to come. Alongside him, Ian Evans or Charteris both provide the tactical expertise in the lineout and solid grunt to form a strong combination. I’m very happy with that trio.

Bradley Davies really needs to wake-up, because he’s drifting further and further behind imo. I’ve not been impressed with him for quite some time, either for the Blues or Wales, and I find it incredible that he captained Wales in Japan. Coombs on the other hand really stepped up to the plate in the 6 nations, the challenge for him is to continue that this season with the Dragons.

I’d prefer it if Lou Reed were jettisoned tbh, but he seems to be in the coaches good books. Peers is developing quickly though, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he forces his way into the Welsh squad come RWC 2015 if he can get enough game time for the Ospreys with Jones and Evans there.

Prognosis: encouraging.
Only a slight disagreement: I'd put James King in the pecking order, probably with Bradley Davies and Andrew Coombs at least. Some will say he makes for a better blindside, but I think he's a perfect future 19, to cover blindside and second row.

Blindside: Dan Lydiate, Ryan Jones, Sam Warburton > Aaron Shingler > James King, Andries Pretorius > Josh Turnbull >> Rob McCusker, Ellis Jenkins.

A little spoilt for choice tbh. We’ve got a blindside to fit any game plan we choose to employ.

Lydiate is a workaholic in the tight with his tackling, rucking and even carrying (despite what some believe). Ryan Jones offers huge experience, and the tactical nous to quickly realise when defences leave gaps behind the ruck and exploit that space (along with AWJ). Whilst Warburton is an openside, he’s shown that he can switch to the blindside, alongside Tipuric, and cause havoc. He, Tips and Faletau provided a backrow master class against England, and that backrow deserves another shot to prove it wasn’t a one-off.

Shingler fell off somewhat towards the end of last season, but he again offers something a little different, genuine pace that rivals Croft, and a lovely pair of hands.

Whilst King didn’t make the transition to international rugby that most hoped in Japan, he was still a stand-out performer for the O’s last season, and offers a very rounded skillset. It’s not completely certain what his best position is, but to me he looks like more of a blindside than a lock.

For me, Pretorius is a blindside, but with a lack of 8’s at the Blues and for Wales, he’ll probably be viewed as an 8 for the foreseeable future. I don’t think we’ll see the best from him because of this, although it may boost his international chances.

With Barclay joining the Scarlets, and Dan Thomas ready to step-up (imo), hopefully Turnbull can return to the blindside flank where he started. He’s got a lot to do to overtake those in front of him though. Similarly, McCucker’s best position is at blindside, although I just don’t think he’s anywhere near good enough. He’s just not a smart enough player, taking wrong options and conceding penalties and yellow cards at alarming frequency.

Lastly I want to mention Ellis Jenkins. It’s uncertain atm whether he’s viewed at a 6 or 7, but given that the Blues have Warbs and Navidi at 7, I’d hazard a guess that he may be developed as a 6. He was outstanding in the JWC, and was similarly excellent last season for the U20’s. I’m excited about his potential.

Prognosis: hell yeah!

Openside: Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric >> Josh Navidi > Sam Lewis, Lewis Evans > Daniel Thomas, Ellis Jenkins.

At first glance we appear well stocked here, but Warburton’s injury track record does ****le at me a little. I feel we need to develop a third option just in case. Navidi and Sam Lewis are developing nicely at their regions, whilst Ellis Jenkins (if he’s considered in the role at the Blues) and Dan Thomas have a lot of potential. Lewis Evans has had some decent spells at the Dragons, but I suspect he falls short of the quality we need.

Prognosis: what team wouldn’t be happy with Warburton and Tipuric battling it out for the next 10 years?
Agreed completely. A lot of skill, options and future potential. The flanker positions may well be sorted for Wales for the next 6 years (leading into 2019 WC).

Number 8: Toby Faletau>> (Gareth Delve)>>> Ieuan Jones, Dan Baker, Morgan Allen, Kieran Murphy.

Toby Faletau makes for a lonely presence atm. Bloody good player mind. With Delve likely out of the picture, we desperately need to develop some cover here. McBryde’s (and the regions) plan of playing blindsides at 8 really doesn’t cut it.

Jones, Baker and Allen have potential, especially Ieuan Jones, but are any of them going to be ready in time for RWC 2015? Murphy showed glimpses at the Scarlets, but now he’s moved, he’ll likely to out of the frame. Ryan Jones could fill-in in an emergency, but he’s really not an 8 anymore.

This imo is our biggest problem area, because two out of the four regions (Blues & Scarlets) are playing players out of position at 8, the O’s have a 34y/o playing there (I wish Bearman was 5 years younger), leaving the Dragons who have Faletau and the most promising prospect Ieuan Jones, good on em’.

Prognosis: help!
I would consider Ryan Jones to be Faletau's primary back-up, considering that I think that Warburton/Tipuric would be the primary back-up to Lydiate/Warburton. I think adding Ryan Jones to the depth chart makes it a much less daunting position for Wales. If Delve were to come back, then Wales would be sorted for 2015. The worry is what happens afterwards.

If I were a Welsh fan, I'd also be worried about the lack of a traditional 8. Maybe having so many ball carriers in the squad means that it isn't so necessary, but a good traditional 8 makes meters like no one else can.

Scrum half: Mike Phillips? >> Lloyd Williams > Tavis Knoyle, Rhodri Williams, Tom Habberfield, Aled Davies > Jonathan Evans, Gareth Davies, Rhys Webb.

Will Phillips really retire? Is it even bad for Wales if he does? At the moment we don’t have the calibre of player to replace him, but replacing Phillips with a speedy, classy scrum half could really add potency to the Welsh backline imo.

Lloyd Williams has been Phillips’ understudy for the last couple of years, but he’s flattered to deceive somewhat. The same can be said of Tavis Knoyle, who started his career with a bang, but has fizzled out. Rhys Webb has all the tools, but is unfortunately missing a brain. I thought the same of Lee Byrne for a long time though, and he managed to turn things around, but it’s a long-shot.

So maybe the three youngsters at the Scarlets, Tom Habberfield and Jonathan Evans offer our best hope for the future. You’d expect at least one of that lot to progress, and personally I’m backing Habberfield and Rhodri Williams, as imo they are the most well rounded candidates. Aled Davies and Jonathan Evans are both classy players mind. I feel Gareth Davies is possibly missing something, but then he makes a few scything breaks for the Scarlets and changes my mind. The Scarlets really need to decide their pecking order, because I’m not too sure changing scrum half every game is doing either the 9’s, or the rest of the team too much good. There is one less there this season with Knoyle having moved to Gloucester.

Prognosis: I’ll get back to you…
I take this to be the most worrying position. I'm not even a fan of Phillips, and I still think his retirement would be a massive blow for Wales.

The alternatives just have a lot of struggles on their hands. Despite being the Welsh third-choice, Knoyle is going to have a massive task getting ahead of Cowan and Robson. I think he'll find himself struggling for time at Glos, unless an upturn in form. All of the Scarlets scrum-halves will be treading on each others shoes in trying to win a place for Scarlets and Wales. By the time they work out who is the best, how long will it be before the WC? Then you have Habberfield, who up until now has been shifted to wing to accommodate others...

The bit of solace is that scrum half is one of those positions that players can really break out to a high standard in a very short amount of time. If we were talking about tightheads, the position would be a little grim. But two years is a long time for young scrum-halves, and Wales only really need one of the many options to break out.

Outside half: Dan Biggar > Rhys Priestland, James Hook > Rhys Patchell > Jason Tovey, Matthew Morgan, Sam Davies, Owen Williams, Jordan Williams?

I feel that a lot of people feel that Biggar isn’t good enough to be our 10 going forwards, but I think he could be a good calming influence, steering the ship, with a good kicking game and distribution, standing flat to draw defences. He can also challenge defences on occasion, whilst his defence is reasonably good. Sometimes Welsh fans are overly obsessed with flashy outside halves, in their search for another Barry John, but how many 10’s of that nature flourish in modern rugby? Not many.

With Halfpenny kicking, it does open up the option of having a real playmaker at 10, but do we really have a player to fill that role atm? A lot of people in Wales would shout Hook’s name to that question, but I really don’t know what to make of Hook atm. He’s an incredibly talented player, but his form for Wales over the last couple of seasons has been poor when given a chance. The Welsh management don’t seem to like him either.

Priestland was a revelation at the 2011 RWC, but he’s struggled to reach that kind of form since, and tbf has been rather poor for both the Scarlets and Wales ever since. He does offer a nicely balanced game when on-form, although his defence is on the poor side, but until he produces something for the Scarlets again, he really should not be considered for Wales. Place kicking did seem to weigh down on him, so maybe without that burden he’ll regain some confidence, although maybe the Scarlets don’t have that luxury.

Patchell is on the rise, and he will be the Blues first choice 10 next season, so will have plenty of opportunities to develop his game and push his case. Hopefully his confidence wasn’t shaken out in Japan where he had to rather unfairly (or unfortunately) fill in at outside centre.

Sam Davies is being hyped by many, especially by those who’ve only really seen him play at the JWC this year. Yes he was great during that campaign, but imo he’s a very similar player to Biggar, and for that reason may struggle to dislodge the more experienced, yet still young Biggar at the O’s.

Tovey has moved back to the Dragons, but he really needs to get out of the rut he’s been in. His ability to unlock defences with his passing game would suit Wales well on paper, especially without the kicking duties, but he’s not pushed on as expected.

Owen Williams looked promising last season, but I’m not sure his move to Leicester will pay off. If he can develop there and get regular game time in the coming seasons, he’d have put himself in a strong position, but I’m not sure I see it myself.

There are two hugely exciting players left, Matthew Morgan and Jordan Williams. Both have been described by their regions as the most talented players they’ve had come through their academy’s, but both have a challenge to stand up physically to professional rugby. Matthew Morgan has really struggled for the O’s though. Depending on how he develops this coming season, I’d be tempted if I were the O’s management to try him on the wing, where he wouldn’t be so exposed defensively, and he can just concentrate on roaming the pitch and beating defenders. Whilst Jordan plays at 10 for Llanelli, but has stated that he prefers the extra space and freedom of playing fullback.

Prognosis: Unsettled.
I think it should really look like:
Priestland (WC form) > Biggar, Hook >> Priestland (form since WC) and others

I think Hook really hasn't had enough opportunity to prove himself. Whereas I think Priestland has been consistently a liability since the WC, and should recover club form before being put in a bracket with Hook.

Like scrum-half, there are plenty of young options that may yet break out in time for the WC. Unlike scrum-half, however, I think that Wales have some pretty decent options in Biggar, Hook and potentially Priestland, here. So I'd say that it's a settled, but maybe not exactly awe-inspiring position.

Inside Centre: Jamie Roberts >> Ashley Beck > Steven Shingler > Cory Allen, Jack Dixon.

Whilst Roberts is a proven international player of the highest calibre, there’s still part of me that feels that Wales lack creativity at 12, and this limits the potency of our outside backs. Whilst getting over the gainline is an important aspect of breaking down the organised defences of modern rugby, it shouldn’t be the be all and end all. Roberts is one of the ultimate smashers in the game, with a defensive game to match, but I’d love to see Beck get more game time to see if he can use his offloading and distribution to add more potency to the Welsh backline. I’m not saying drop Roberts, but exploring other options should still be done.

Shingler also offers a similar option, a second 5/8’th type of player which is so popular down South. If he can settle in well at the Scarlets, he’ll be in with a shout of making future Welsh squads given his versatility.

Two young options are Allen and Dixon. I’m sure many are aware that I have high hopes for Allen, who combines power with pace, skill and vision. He’s starred at U20 level and with the 7’s, but as yet hasn’t been given a shot at the Blues. This season should remedy that if Phil Davies has any sense. Dixon is already a regular starter for the Dragons, and was integral to the success of the U20’s this season. Under the guidance of Lyn Jones, I expect him to develop over the coming seasons. Both could be viewed as outside centres as well, but I feel that they will be played at inside centre for their regions due to a lack of alternatives.

Do I even mention the orange one?

Prognosis: healthy enough.
Good position for Wales, this one. Amongst Roberts, Beck, Shingler, Hook, Henson, Scott Williams and Allen for the future, there's some great options.

I do disagree with the ordering though. I wouldn't have Roberts so ahead of Beck. In fact, I'd have Beck in front of Roberts. In a backline full of ball crashing giants, a Beck-like figure would be fantastic to get use out of them. Hook or Henson would do the same job, although may have less position familiarity given they both primarily play 10 now.

I also think Roberts to be skilled at what he does, but also somewhat predictable, and doesn't offer anything unique to the other giants Wales have in their backline. I think that the modern blitz defence has shut him out in the 12 channel. I do wonder whether a move to Racing Metro may ignite something though. Working outside Sexton may work his attacking game. We may even see a positional change, as it looks like Estebanez/Roberts is a potential pairing option. Racing seems to lend itself to a "second 10" 12 game style.

My ordering: Beck > Hook, Henson, Shingler > Scott Williams (on the account of that I don't like him paired with Davies) > Allen (for future)

Outside Centre: Jon Davies, Jamie Roberts >> James Hook, Scott Williams > Owen Williams > Nick Reynolds, Andrew Bishop.

Roberts could also be utilised at outside centre if Beck forces his way into the reckoning. As for Davies, I thought he matured somewhat as a player on the Lions tour, and showed that with work his passing game can improve. The rest of his game is already at a high standard, but he needs to keep working on his passing so that opportunities don’t go begging with an overthrown pass into touch.

James Hook has arguably produced some of his best rugby for Wales at outside centre, where he has a little more time. He seems intent on playing at 10 though, which could limit his chances in the centre for Wales.

Scott Williams has done some good things for Wales, but has also made his fair share of blunders. He seems to be living off that game winning try v’s England somewhat, but a lot of people seem to forget the try he butchered earlier in the game. Needs to show more tactical nous and awareness to really push for a starting spot, and I don’t think he currently has the ability to do so.

I thought Owen Williams was one of the few players to have played well on the Japan Tour. Hopefully he’s played in the centre for the Blues this season, not just used as filler on the wing where he lacks the pace to be truly effective. I think an Allen-Williams combo could work well, time will tell if Davies and co. can see past Gavin Evans and Dafydd Hewitt.

Bishop is the forgotten man after a season out. He’s a limited player, but in an emergency he’s not a bad player to have available. Reynolds career for the Scarlets has been a little stop-start. I think he’s got something about him, but I am still undecided.

Prognosis: Again, reasonable healthy.
Agreed except for Davies, Roberts being so far ahead of Hook. Hook imo has been at his most impressive at 13 for Wales. If not Beck/Davies, my next favoured pairing would be Roberts/Hook (or Hook/Roberts).

Wing: George North, Alex Cuthbert > Eli Wales > Liam Williams, Hanno Dirksen (when qualified) > Harry Robinson >> Tom Prydie, Dafydd Howells.

There’s a little more strength developing here, although that hasn’t transferred into the national team just yet with Eli being injured for the last half of last season. North and Cuthbert are clearly first choices atm, but I’m eagerly anticipating Eli Wales’ debut (as long as he returns to form quickly). I think he could offer something very different. Still it’s difficult not to be happy with North’s all round quality, and Cuthbert’s finishing prowess.

Liam Williams offers an option on the wing. I expect Dirksen to opt to play for Wales. Rightly or wrongly, he’s too good a player to pass-up if he does make himself available once qualified.

Prydie remains the youngest player to ever play for Wales, but he hasn’t really developed in the way Gats envisaged. He didn’t really set the world alight for the Dragons last season, although his boot can be useful. There’s a lot of hype surrounding Dafydd Howells, but Regional rugby comes first for him.

Halfpenny could always switch to the wing in an emergency, but I’d do everything I can to keep him at fullback.

Prognosis: depth is shallow at the moment, but should grow.
Again, mostly agreed. I think that recent form has North way in the lead however. I also have Dirksen way ahead of Liam Williams, and even ahead of Eli Wales. If he were qualified by now, I'd have already had the selection headache of who to pick from him and Cuthbert to complement North. Of course, it does depend on how he recovers from injury. He's been out for a while now. Massive fan.

Fullback:Leigh Halfpenny >>>> Lee Byrne, Liam Williams, Richard Fussell >> Dan Fish, Hallam Amos, Jordan Williams, Tom Prydie > Ross Jones.

Halfpenny is up there with the best in the world, an integral part of the Welsh team. But the backup atm is a little shaky tbh. I feel that Byrne has been jettisoned too soon, because he’s still a top operator for Clermont, a solid performer with few weaknesses to his game. At 33, there’s a chance he could make the next WC, but far from a certainty.

Liam Williams and James Hook have been the main alternatives. Hook really isn’t a fullback, lacking pace to really make an impact from so deep. His running style doesn’t suit the position either imo. Williams has been OK, but is still inconsistent, and still learning. Needs to watch his temper, which can get the better of him on occasion. No denying his enthusiasm though!

Despite a fine couple of seasons for the O’s, Fussell has been overlooked for Wales, and I can’t see that changing after not even making the Japan tour. Cymro has questioned his consistency in the past, and I see where he’s coming from. He has more good days than bad, but it does raise question marks about whether he could make the step-up to international rugby.

Fish and Amos are two promising players. Fish may struggle for regional game time behind Halfpenny, but Amos will likely be first choice at the Dragons next season. Jordan Williams and Prydie could come into the reckoning here as well.

After some fine performances for Wales at U20 level, Ross Jones really struggled at times for the Ospreys last season. His performance against Leinster really highlighted just how much work he needs to do on his defence before he’s ready for regional rugby, let alone international.

Prognosis: needs strengthening.
Don't like Liam Williams too much. Halfpenny >>> Fussell, Byrne > Williams for me. But I agree otherwise.
 
Reading that reaffirms my suspicion that Wales' biggest problem now is the half-backs where they look really short on consistency and proven quality. Mike Philips is the only guy in a 9 or 10 shirt who's turned up and really put in top work consistently at international level for any prolonged time period, and even he appears to be on the wane. I'm none too clued up on his replacements, although gods knows I've seen a fair bit of them - just none really stick in the mind. They all look ok, nothing special, do the odd great thing then struggle to make much of an impact... ironically Wales would be better off with less young prospects here. Then their clubs could really focus on getting the most out of them instead of flitting back and forth. Look at Conor Murray for a great example of how that works.

And it's ok having a subpar 9 if you've got a great 10 - or the other way around. But Biggar has had real consistency issues and while he's shown he can play international rugby, that's as a useful cog rather than as a decisive element. I think James Hook should have concentrated on 13 and made something of himself there... and then there's another rash of talented young things. But Wales need some established quality there, and I think if things get derailed for Wales, this will be one of the places that happens.

Have to agree with j'nuh that Gethin Jenkins' game must be really hard for an older guy, who knows how long he can continue it. 2015? It'd be nice for you if Gill or Bevington was offering a real alternative by then. The depth chart in places for the forwards is a potential achilles heel, but not a nightmare other than Adam Jones...
 
Just to clarify, much of my ordering was a combination of my own feelings, and how I think Gatland and co. see things.

Couple of disagreements here: I think that Bevington should be third choice in the pecking order. If he isn't already ahead of Gill, he will be within two years.

My other slightly more major disagreement, is that I don't really think that Wales are as strong in this position as you think. There's the post-WC worry of a potential double retirement of Jenkins and James, leaving Wales a little bare. But I assume you're talking about a prognosis looking towards the WC. In which case, Jenkins and James are old enough that an injury may retire them, or set them too far back to recover international form from. Or they may be on a decline. Jenkins has always prided himself on being able to get around the park for a loosehead... will he be able to do this when the WC comes around, at nearly 35 years old?

If Bevington can get some consistency to his game, then he'd be rivalling Jenkins and James for a starting position. But so far he's swayed between the sublime and the anonymous. I've seen Ospreys games where he's mimicked a young Gethin Jenkins in the loose with charging runs, outrageous try's, and thundering tackles in midfield, but the next week you barely realise he's on the pitch and he's struggling in the scrum.

What Gill offers is consistency. He's a dependable scrummager, and he carries well. Atm he's easily our third choice loosehead imo. I'd love nothing better than for Bevington to knuckle down and fulfil his huge potential, as I've been a big fan of his for a while now. I thought a couple of years ago that he'd be challenging to be Wales first choice by now, but it hasn't materialised, and he was very poor out in Japan.

We'll have to see how Jenkins goes, but I'm backing him to be back close to his best come RWC time. He's always been a freak fitness wise, so if he can stay injury free then I think he'll be just fine.

Only a slight disagreement: I'd put James King in the pecking order, probably with Bradley Davies and Andrew Coombs at least. Some will say he makes for a better blindside, but I think he's a perfect future 19, to cover blindside and second row.

If King's international début had gone a little better, I'd agree. However it didn't pan out that way, so he's got a little more developing to do. I'm not sure how much game time he'll see at lock for the Ospreys either with AWJ, Evans and Peers there, so it's a big ask to play there at international level.

I would consider Ryan Jones to be Faletau's primary back-up, considering that I think that Warburton/Tipuric would be the primary back-up to Lydiate/Warburton. I think adding Ryan Jones to the depth chart makes it a much less daunting position for Wales. If Delve were to come back, then Wales would be sorted for 2015. The worry is what happens afterwards.

If I were a Welsh fan, I'd also be worried about the lack of a traditional 8. Maybe having so many ball carriers in the squad means that it isn't so necessary, but a good traditional 8 makes meters like no one else can.

I'm not a fan of Ryan Jones at 8 any more. I don't think he's got the pace for it. But he could do a job if necessary.

I take this to be the most worrying position. I'm not even a fan of Phillips, and I still think his retirement would be a massive blow for Wales.

The alternatives just have a lot of struggles on their hands. Despite being the Welsh third-choice, Knoyle is going to have a massive task getting ahead of Cowan and Robson. I think he'll find himself struggling for time at Glos, unless an upturn in form. All of the Scarlets scrum-halves will be treading on each others shoes in trying to win a place for Scarlets and Wales. By the time they work out who is the best, how long will it be before the WC? Then you have Habberfield, who up until now has been shifted to wing to accommodate others...

The bit of solace is that scrum half is one of those positions that players can really break out to a high standard in a very short amount of time. If we were talking about tightheads, the position would be a little grim. But two years is a long time for young scrum-halves, and Wales only really need one of the many options to break out.

Yeah, it's a problem position atm. Don't be surprised if Knoyle is given a fair crack at Glos though, I think Nigel Davies is a big fan of his. He lured him to the Scarlets to begin with from the Ospreys, and he was Scarlets first choice for most of the time Davies was head coach.

It really is a wait and see position for Wales. With any luck two of the youngsters will have breakthrough seasons at regional level and give us some genuinely classy options at international level. A lot does depend on the regions though, will Habberfield be given a fair crack at the O's? Can one of the three Scarlets 9's emerge from the crowd to make the position his own?

I think it should really look like:
Priestland (WC form) > Biggar, Hook >> Priestland (form since WC) and others

I think Hook really hasn't had enough opportunity to prove himself. Whereas I think Priestland has been consistently a liability since the WC, and should recover club form before being put in a bracket with Hook.

Like scrum-half, there are plenty of young options that may yet break out in time for the WC. Unlike scrum-half, however, I think that Wales have some pretty decent options in Biggar, Hook and potentially Priestland, here. So I'd say that it's a settled, but maybe not exactly awe-inspiring position.

This was one of those positions where Gatland's preferences influenced the order. Hook doesn't seem to be liked by the management, and for that reason alone he's unlikely to get much opportunity, so Biggar is ahead of him.

Good position for Wales, this one. Amongst Roberts, Beck, Shingler, Hook, Henson, Scott Williams and Allen for the future, there's some great options.

I do disagree with the ordering though. I wouldn't have Roberts so ahead of Beck. In fact, I'd have Beck in front of Roberts. In a backline full of ball crashing giants, a Beck-like figure would be fantastic to get use out of them. Hook or Henson would do the same job, although may have less position familiarity given they both primarily play 10 now.

I also think Roberts to be skilled at what he does, but also somewhat predictable, and doesn't offer anything unique to the other giants Wales have in their backline. I think that the modern blitz defence has shut him out in the 12 channel. I do wonder whether a move to Racing Metro may ignite something though. Working outside Sexton may work his attacking game. We may even see a positional change, as it looks like Estebanez/Roberts is a potential pairing option. Racing seems to lend itself to a "second 10" 12 game style.

My ordering: Beck > Hook, Henson, Shingler > Scott Williams (on the account of that I don't like him paired with Davies) > Allen (for future)

Roberts is easily ahead in the pecking order, he's the epitome of Gatlands Wales. I do agree that Beck offers something that could really benefit Wales though. I hope he's given enough game time to show what he can really do, because having Davies/Roberts, North and Cuthbert running lines off him could be devastating with his ability to offload out of the tackle.

I don't personally think Scott Williams is a 12. He simply hasn't got the distribution (both ability and vision).

Agreed except for Davies, Roberts being so far ahead of Hook. Hook imo has been at his most impressive at 13 for Wales. If not Beck/Davies, my next favoured pairing would be Roberts/Hook (or Hook/Roberts).

Again, the Welsh managements dislike of Hook will hinder him here as well, as does Hook's insistence of playing at 10.

Again, mostly agreed. I think that recent form has North way in the lead however. I also have Dirksen way ahead of Liam Williams, and even ahead of Eli Wales. If he were qualified by now, I'd have already had the selection headache of who to pick from him and Cuthbert to complement North. Of course, it does depend on how he recovers from injury. He's been out for a while now. Massive fan.

Yeah, big fan of Dirksen as well, but I'd still have Eli ahead of him. North should probably have been placed ahead of Cuthbert, but then again Cuthbert just doesn't stop scoring.

Don't like Liam Williams too much. Halfpenny >>> Fussell, Byrne > Williams for me. But I agree otherwise.

Yeah, I'm undecided on Liam Williams as well. I love his enthusiasm and no nonsense approach (I know some hate him for it though), and he does have a decent skill set as his offload in the first Japan game highlighted, but he's far from the finished article yet, and is prone to getting caught up in the physical side of the game too often. He really needs to hone his game like Byrne did, concentrate on the basics and looking for space. I wouldn't be surprised to see him play primarily on the wing for the Scarlets this season though, with Jordan Williams played at fullback.

Fussell really isn't liked by the Wales management it seems, and as he isn't a 22 y/o youngster, he probably won't get his chance.
 
I can never work out, which club do you support? :P

Don't be surprised if Knoyle is given a fair crack at Glos though, I think Nigel Davies is a big fan of his. He lured him to the Scarlets to begin with from the Ospreys, and he was Scarlets first choice for most of the time Davies was head coach.

I'm not counting against it. Just saying that he's in a very tough environment. Disregarding form, it's hard to keep an All Black with 51 caps out of the side, whereas Robson shocks me with how fast he's improving. I also think Knoyle's arrival is as much down to circumstance as it is anything else. It was a great opportunity to bring him on board, and there wouldn't have been the opportunity next year. I expect that Cowan will move on at the end of the season, and for Robson and Knoyle to duke it out from there on.

On that note, who better for Knoyle to learn off of than Cowan? You should have seen the improvement in Robson and Lewis, just months after training with Cowan. Coincidence, possibly. But I seem to think that Cowan brought a more aggressive and bossier edge to their games.

I don't personally think Scott Williams is a 12. He simply hasn't got the distribution (both ability and vision).

Same argument could be made for Roberts though. Don't know why I forgot to add Roberts to it, or why I put Shingler so high. So assuming Davies/Roberts is at 13:
Beck > Hook, Henson > Roberts > Shingler > Williams > Allen
 
Disappointed Rob McCusker and Lou Reed still manage to get their names in this thread. If either of those dopey clowns get another Wales cap I will not be happy.

As for Ryan Bevington his progress is very disappointing. He's 24 now, and will be 25 next season. By that age Gethin Jenkins and Adam Jones were both Grand Slam winning props. I thought he could improve scrummaging to mirror the recent success of Cian Healy, but unfortunately he simply does not have the mindset to his core job as a prop at the highest level. With Adam Jones the Ospreys can still destroy crap like the Blues and Scarlets at scrum time, but at elite level you can't carry a Bevington.
 
I can never work out, which club do you support? :P

All regions equally receive my attention, much to the dismay of some I'm sure. I suppose I can best describe myself as a supporter of my favourite players, whoever they play for.

Same argument could be made for Roberts though. Don't know why I forgot to add Roberts to it, or why I put Shingler so high. So assuming Davies/Roberts is at 13:
Beck > Hook, Henson > Roberts > Shingler > Williams > Allen

Roberts does have the ability to pass. Maybe he doesn't always have the vision to pass, or maybe he's simply tasked with getting the side over the gainline and thus doesn't get the opportunity. Scott Williams has proven time and again that he can't pass and doesn't identify when to pass either.
 
Loosehead:
- Jenkins and James are ageing and i'm not convinced by either Gill or Bevington. Rhodri has more potential than either but he's very young.
Hooker:
- Agree with everyone there
Tighthead
- I'm a fan of Mitchell but he's never really pushed on. Powerful player but he's ill disciplined, and inconsistent. He's still got his prime years ahead of him but he's never been a solid scrummager even against weak opposition at Pro 12 level. So i'm not holding much hope for him.
- Andrews is good in the loose but will probably always be a liability in the scrum.
- Jarvis is solid in the scrum and to be honest i'd much rather see him than Mitchell and Andrews.
- Lee has enormous potential and i think barring injury he should be involved with all Welsh squads going into the 2015 world cup.
- Remember that Owen Franks was only around 23 in the 2011 world cup, Lee will be the same.
Lock
- I would consider Coombs as a blindside first and foremost when everyone is fit at lock
- Reeds is not international standard
Blindside
-
I don't agree that we're that strong here dullonien
- We really have to find different options to Turnbull and McCusker they are very average.
- Wasn't impressed by Pretorius in the Summer and haven't really been impressed by him for Cardiff. Need to find more 8's!!!
- I think the Welsh management consider Lewis Evans as a blindside and rightly so.
Openside
- An area of relative strength and great potential
- Not enough experienced players here though, once we lose one of Warburton or Tipuric we lose a hell of a lot in terms of pro experience
- I think that Shingler (if fit) will be considered 2nd choice openside if Warburton is out of the Autumn internationals.
Number 8
- Ryan Jones will be 2nd choice number 8, most likely on the bench anyway
- I don't agree that the problem is that the regions aren't playing the right guys in the right positions. We just aren't producing good enough number 8's even for Pro 12 level.
Scrum-half
- Not impressed by Williams at all
- Have no idea what to say about this position to be honest
Fly-half
- Not much to say here that hasn't been said
- I think Davies is being majorly over hyped though, like Morgan was. I can still remember some people calling for him to be included in the Welsh squad, Loonies. His kicking game is great but what else does have that is going to be a threat at senior level? I rememer Biggar looked like Barry John in the JWC.
Inside Centre
- j'nuh, same argument could be made for Roberts that he can't pass like Williams? At least he sucks in defenders and gets us over the gain line. All Williams offers compared to him is pace and he hasn't even been able to utilise that at Pro 12 level. Shown glimpses of it for Wales though.
- Good young options coming through to supplement the older more established players.
Outside Centre
- Most of our 12's and 13's can interchange as has been said
Wing
- I really rate Dirksen for the Ospreys, but i'm not sure if he'd be that effective at top international level on the wing. Rather see him at 13 for the USA.
- Robinson has a lot to work on, i wouldn't trust him yet in a full international.
- Complete lack of depth here.
Fullback
- Don't rate Fussell at all. He's pretty good for the Ospreys, but pretty good at Pro 12 level doesn't cut at international. He would be severely exposed.
- I dislike Williams. Lairy punt would sum up what i think of him. Don't think he's that good either
- I really like the look of Amos.
- Jordan Williams is being massively over hyped. He hasn't even had a decent game for the Scarlets yet.
- Lack of depth here.

I think a lot of people read into JWC form too much. It's never really the stand out guys that make it through. It's the ones with the physical attributes to succeed at pro/senior level. The ones who can mix that with talent are the ones who become very good.
 
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Loosehead:
- Jenkins and James are ageing and i'm not convinced by either Gill or Bevington. Rhodri has more potential than either but he's very young.

I'd still say Bevington has more potential than Jones. He's a better scrummager (although still not great) and is a bit more physical in the loose, and is fu***ng rapid. Jones is a good young prop, but he's got to recover from major injury first, and the Welsh management need to see him as a looshead, not a long term tighthead project. Jones is also a tall player, with a long back, and this can cause issues at scrum time if he can't maintain his technique.

Lock
- I would consider Coombs as a blindside first and foremost when everyone is fit at lock

Coombs is better off concentrating on lock imo. We've got less options at lock, so more need of him there. The Dragons are also limited in the second row, so I think they will play him primarily as a lock.

Blindside
-
I don't agree that we're that strong here dullonien
- We really have to find different options to Turnbull and McCusker they are very average.
- Wasn't impressed by Pretorius in the Summer and haven't really been impressed by him for Cardiff. Need to find more 8's!!!
- I think the Welsh management consider Lewis Evans as a blindside and rightly so.

Really? I think it's by far out strongest position. We've arguably got 3 world class (or very close to it) options in Lydiate, Ryan Jones and Warburton. Shingler and King have bags of potential, as does Ellis Jenkins. Whilst Turnbull hasn't been great, he's been playing out of position where he has struggled imo. He doesn't have the pace for an openside, and it shows. Agree about McCusker though.

Personally I thought Pretorius was one of the few players to put his hand up in Japan. He was miles better than McCusker at 8. Wasn't perfect by any means, but at least showed something. He's not really an 8 though, at least not yet, but will undoubtedly be groomed as one by the Blues and Wales.

Number 8
- I don't agree that the problem is that the regions aren't playing the right guys in the right positions. We just aren't producing good enough number 8's even for Pro 12 level.

That's certainly a big part of the problem. Allen and Baker at the O's have potential though, but to be fair Bearman was a great player for them last season, so can understand the lack of game time for the youngsters. The Blues have Hamilton, although he too could be better suited at blindside.

It's certainly a problem position, and a little emphasis needs to be placed on it in the regions academy's to develop a few young players for the future.

Wing
- I really rate Dirksen for the Ospreys, but i'm not sure if he'd be that effective at top international level on the wing. Rather see him at 13 for the USA.
- Robinson has a lot to work on, i wouldn't trust him yet in a full international.

I think Dirksen would be effective on the wing at international level. Needs to work on his defence in some areas, can get caught out under the high ball for instance. I think he's a little small for centre, and instead works best when he can pick his moments to come infield from the wing. Part of me would prefer for him to play for USA, but he seems to be settling in well in Wales, marrying a Welsh girl and is learning the language.

As for Robinson, I thought he began to find his stride towards the end of last season. He was Wales' best player over the two tests against Japan as well. Still got a long way to go though.
Fullback
- Jordan Williams is being massively over hyped. He hasn't even had a decent game for the Scarlets yet.

Apart from his Scarlets début where he picked up man of the match after scoring two lovely try's against Leinster? He's got to prove that he can cope physically at pro level, but he's got all the skills. He's more talented than Matthew Morgan imo, as he has a better all round game. I think we'll see a lot of him for the Scarlets this season, so we should be in a better position to judge in 6 months time.

I think a lot of people read into JWC form too much. It's never really the stand out guys that make it through. It's the ones with the physical attributes to succeed at pro/senior level. The ones who can mix that with talent are the ones who become very good.

I think Wales have a great track record of U20 players developing into international class players. Warburton, Tipuric, Jon Davies, Biggar, and Halfpenny were all involved with and were stand-out players for the 2008 U20 side. Some fall along the way, others skip the age grades and develop later, but generally the real stand-out players have a good shot. Matthew Morgan is probably the biggest exception, but he's still very young, so could still develop. He was always up against it due to his size though, and everyone knew that was the case.
 
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I'd still say Bevington has more potential than Jones. He's a better scrummager (although still not great) and is a bit more physical in the loose, and is fu***ng rapid. Jones is a good young prop, but he's got to recover from major injury first, and the Welsh management need to see him as a looshead, not a long term tighthead project. Jones is also a tall player, with a long back, and this can cause issues at scrum time if he can't maintain his technique.

Why is Rhodri Jones even mentioned here? What has he done to be considered a "good young prop"? Last time I saw him play he got shoved off his own ball by Japan and he can't even keep Phil John, yes Phil John ffs, out of the Scarlets starting lineup. That's not a sign of a good young prop in my opinion. I think he just caught up with the Turks "we've got all the best young players" bandwagon.

It's worth noting that Bevington was perhaps even worse at Jones' age. Bevington is 24 now, must be one of the quickest props out there but he simply doesn't do his primary job well enough. It's covered up to an extent at the Ospreys with Adam Jones and Hibbard playing, but even then it lessens the domination that they used to get with Paul James. If Bevington was at one of the other regions he would be getting reamed like Rhodri does. Gill has risen up to 3rd choice now.
 
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Last time I saw him play he got shoved off his own ball by Japan and he can't even keep Phil John
How is that video supposed to show Rhodri Jones at fault? You can't even see him in the video.

There's many reasons why that scrum goes wrong. First pause the video at 7 secs in. See the body positions of the Welsh vs. the Japanese. The Welsh scrum forms an arc, the Japanese scrum is nice and flat. Then pause at 9 seconds after the hit. Again, the Welsh scrum is a lot more arced than the Japanese one. It results in a reduction of force from the second and back rows. Despite this, the Welsh scrum gets a slight nudge, presumably just for being better scrummagers in general. But then you see the Japanese loosehead scrummage illegally into Mitchell, hence forcing sideways scrummaging. Also worth point out Mitchell binding illegally on the arm. See how easily his binding arm gets shoved upwards at 11 secs, allowing for the Japanese loosehead to scrummage into him. Mitchell brings it upon himself, tbh. I'd also point out that the Welsh scrum takes too long to get the ball to the back.

Hell, if you watch the scrum to its completion, you'll see that Rhodri Jones never gets forced upwards. The damage was done on Mitchell's side, but from what I can tell, Jones does well to keep from being shunted up the pitch and hold the scrum together.

EDIT: He's also 21.
 
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Why is Rhodri Jones even mentioned here? What has he done to be considered a "good young prop"? Last time I saw him play he got shoved off his own ball by Japan and he can't even keep Phil John, yes Phil John ffs, out of the Scarlets starting lineup. That's not a sign of a good young prop in my opinion. I think he just caught up with the Turks "we've got all the best young players" bandwagon.

Jones showed some promise early on, and was getting game time ahead of Phil John. But he was injured for a long time, and has struggled to regain some of that early form he showed. Still, he's not the best scrummaging prop.
 
How is that video supposed to show Rhodri Jones at fault? You can't even see him in the video.

There's many reasons why that scrum goes wrong. First pause the video at 7 secs in. See the body positions of the Welsh vs. the Japanese. The Welsh scrum forms an arc, the Japanese scrum is nice and flat. Then pause at 9 seconds after the hit. Again, the Welsh scrum is a lot more arced than the Japanese one. It results in a reduction of force from the second and back rows. Despite this, the Welsh scrum gets a slight nudge, presumably just for being better scrummagers in general. But then you see the Japanese loosehead scrummage illegally into Mitchell, hence forcing sideways scrummaging. Also worth point out Mitchell binding illegally on the arm. See how easily his binding arm gets shoved upwards at 11 secs, allowing for the Japanese loosehead to scrummage into him. Mitchell brings it upon himself, tbh. I'd also point out that the Welsh scrum takes too long to get the ball to the back.

Hell, if you watch the scrum to its completion, you'll see that Rhodri Jones never gets forced upwards. The damage was done on Mitchell's side, but from what I can tell, Jones does well to keep from being shunted up the pitch and hold the scrum together.

EDIT: He's also 21.

You've taken one bitesize part of the post and ignored the point of the post. What exactly has Rhodri Jones done on the field to be called a "good young prop"? So far it's not be able to keep Phil John out the Scarlets team, and come on as the Welsh goes from average to poor in Japan. Hopefully Rob Evans puts him under pressure this season at the Scarlets.
 

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