• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Wales under Tandy

dullonien

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
6,404
Reaction score
1,092
Location
Cardiff
I posted one of these when Pivac and Gats v2 came in, so about time I did one for Tandy. I'll run through each position to see where we stand in terms of quality and depth.

There's no getting away from the state we find ourselves in. The losing run may be over, but I'm not sure how much that will affect things. I'm sure Tandy is sighing a huge sigh of relief that he doesn't have to start his tenure with that hanging over his head though. He get's a clean slate which is a huge plus.

Onto the players, in the same way as before I've colour coded them as follows, all imo:
Purple = world class
Black = proven international quality
Red = need to prove themselves
Blue = lacking in quality

Loosehead Prop
Nicky Smith
| Gareth Thomas | Kemsley Mathias | Corey Domachowski | Rhys Carre

Overall, we have an OK crop of looseheads, but none of the options really set the world alight. Nicky Smith is probably the frontrunner, edging Gareth Thomas as he offers just a little more. Neither will let Wales down, but we're crying out for a loosehead with a real point of difference e.g. Genge's carrying. With that in mind I've included Rhys Carre on this list, even though he's currently not eligible, but I do wonder whether the upcoming consultation into Welsh rugby may open the door again. Domachowski showed promise a couple of seasons back, but really hasn't kicked on at all which is hugely disappointing. Mathias offers a lot on the loose, but has struggled with his scrummaging, although did look like he was turning a corner there last season before injury. Big season for him I think to see if he can push on.

Tighthead Prop
Keiron Assiratti | Archie Griffin | Dillon Lewis | Chris Coleman | Henry Thomas | Rhys Henry | Sam Scott

This really is a sorry looking bunch of tightheads. I do think Archie Griffin is capable of becoming international class given a little time, but the others aren't really good enough. I had high hopes for Assiratti a few years back, but similar to Domachowski he's just not kicked on at all. Including Scott on this list at all shows the desperation measures, because he looks far from ready, with his scrummaging inconsistent at U20 level which doesn't bode well. I think Dillon Lewis will likely come back into the squad following his move to the Dragons.

Hooker
Dewi Lake
| Elliot Dee | Ryan Elias | Evan Lloyd | Liam Belcher | Brodie Coughlan | Sam Parry

After a stop/start couple of years, I'm hoping to see Lake really kick on. He'll be a little disappointed with his form this summer and deservedly missing out on Lions selection. I almost put Dee down as 'proven international quality' with his throwing accuracy a big plus, but his all-round game has otherwise dipped recently imo. Elias is liked for his scrummaging and carrying, but his throwing can be such a liability at times that it's genuinely cost us games. Belcher's caps came too late, feel like he's on the wane and his performances v Japan seemed to prove that. I'm excited by the prospects of Lloyd and Coughlan though, both big, dynamic hookers who look to have bright futures.

Lock
Dafydd Jenkins | Adam Beard | Teddy Williams | Freddie Thomas | Will Rowlands | James Fender | Rhys Davies | Jake Ball | Ben Carter | Seb Davies | Christ Tshiunza | Ryan Woodman

Lots of options here, but not many proven ones. I think Dafydd Jenkins is the only one really, and even then I think he still needs to fill out to hit his full potential. I'm not a fan of Beard at all, whilst Rowlands and Ball are both past it. Seb Davies and Tshiunza have both failed miserably to develop at all! I'm a big fan of both Fender and Rhys Davies at the Ospreys, I think they have the bulk to really add something to this Welsh squad. Teddy Williams and Freddie Thomas also have a lot of potential as athletic ball playing locks, but balance needs to be found to ensure we have enough carrying grunt.

Blindside Flanker
Alex Mann | Aaron Wainwright | James Ratti | James Botham | Harri Keddie | Shane Lewis Hughes | Ross Moriarty

With the emergence of some options at no. 8, I'd look to move Wainwright back to blindside where he's a quality proven international. Mann, Ratti, and Botham all have potential. Botham in particular has had runs of games where he's looked very good, but hasn't been able to maintain it. Mann has dog, which I like, but I feel he needs to put on a stone to really be effective at the game he plays. Ross Moriarty could be an interesting option again if he can rediscover form at the Ospreys.

Openside Flanker
Jack Morgan | Josh Macleod | Tommy Reffell | Taine Basham | Thomas Young | Harri Deaves | Dan Davis

As ever we have plenty of option to choose from at openside. I personally rate Jack Morgan as possibly our only world class player, whilst I think Macleod proved himself last season and in Japan as an international quality player (and that's coming from someone that didn't rate him much previously). I'm probably hugely harsh on Reffell, but I've just never seen the fuss at international level, he's just meh in every regard! Basham has always had a hugely high ceiling, hopefully his move to Cardiff reignites his career. I like the look of Deaves as well, he's an all action player that gives everything. Young is probably past his best now, but you'd know he'd do a job if called on.

Number 8
Taulupe Faletau | Taine Plumtree |
Morgan Morse | Morgan Morris | Mackenzie Martin | Alun Lawrence

This is probably the first time in forever that we've had more than 2 genuine options at 8! Not putting arguably the greatest Welsh player of the professional era in purple hurts, but we must be close to saying farewell to Faletau with the injuries continuing to mount unfortunately. Plumtree was phenomenal during the second half of last season, and showed his worth in the second test this summer too. That brings me to the best Welsh age grade player we've ever seen, surely it's a matter of when, not if, Morgan Morse emulates Pollock and announces himself to the world? Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but **** it!

I'll continue onto the backs in the next few days, but thought I'd end with my preferred starting pack from the above:

01 Nicky Smith (in the absence of Rhys Carre)
02 Dewi Lake
03 Archie Griffin
04 Rhys Davies
05 Dafydd Jenkins
06 Aaron Wainwright
07 Jack Morgan
08 Taine Plumtree

16 Evan Lloyd
17 Kemsley Mathias (bit of a punt, but I think he's offer more impact than Thomas)
18 Dillon Lewis
19 Teddy Williams
20 Josh Macleod (with Morse coming in once he's cemented his place in the Ospreys starting pack)
 
Last edited:
Harsh on a few there. I’d argue you might need a new category. There are a few experienced guys who are proven but past their best - I get why you’ve put them as blue but I don’t think it’s a ‘lack of quality’ - it’s either consistency (Reffell/Botham) or the ravages of time (Rowlands).
 
I posted one of these when Pivac and Gats v2 came in, so about time I did one for Tandy. I'll run through each position to see where we stand in terms of quality and depth.

There's no getting away from the state we find ourselves in. The losing run may be over, but I'm not sure how much that will affect things. I'm sure Tandy is sighing a huge sigh of relief that he doesn't have to start his tenure with that hanging over his head though. He get's a clean slate which is a huge plus.

Onto the players, in the same way as before I've colour coded them as follows, all imo:
Purple = world class
Black = proven international quality
Red = need to prove themselves
Blue = lacking in quality

Loosehead Prop
Nicky Smith
| Gareth Thomas | Kemsley Mathias | Corey Domachowski | Rhys Carre

Overall, we have an OK crop of looseheads, but none of the options really set the world alight. Nicky Smith is probably the frontrunner, edging Gareth Thomas as he offers just a little more. Neither will let Wales down, but we're crying out for a loosehead with a real point of difference e.g. Genge's carrying. With that in mind I've included Rhys Carre on this list, even though he's currently not eligible, but I do wonder whether the upcoming consultation into Welsh rugby may open the door again. Domachowski showed promise a couple of seasons back, but really hasn't kicked on at all which is hugely disappointing. Mathias offers a lot on the loose, but has struggled with his scrummaging, although did look like he was turning a corner there last season before injury. Big season for him I think to see if he can push on.

Tighthead Prop
Keiron Assiratti | Archie Griffin | Dillon Lewis | Chris Coleman | Henry Thomas | Rhys Henry | Sam Scott

This really is a sorry looking bunch of tightheads. I do think Archie Griffin is capable of becoming international class given a little time, but the others aren't really good enough. I had high hopes for Assiratti a few years back, but similar to Domachowski he's just not kicked on at all. Including Scott on this list at all shows the desperation measures, because he looks far from ready, with his scrummaging inconsistent at U20 level which doesn't bode well. I think Dillon Lewis will likely come back into the squad following his move to the Dragons.

Hooker
Dewi Lake
| Elliot Dee | Ryan Elias | Evan Lloyd | Liam Belcher | Brodie Coughlan | Sam Parry

After a stop/start couple of years, I'm hoping to see Lake really kick on. He'll be a little disappointed with his form this summer and deservedly missing out on Lions selection. I almost put Dee down as 'proven international quality' with his throwing accuracy a big plus, but his all-round game has otherwise dipped recently imo. Elias is liked for his scrummaging and carrying, but his throwing can be such a liability at times that it's genuinely cost us games. Belcher's caps came too late, feel like he's on the wane and his performances v Japan seemed to prove that. I'm excited by the prospects of Lloyd and Coughlan though, both big, dynamic hookers who look to have bright futures.

Lock
Dafydd Jenkins | Adam Beard | Teddy Williams | Freddie Thomas | Will Rowlands | James Fender | Rhys Davies | Jake Ball | Ben Carter | Seb Davies | Christ Tshiunza | Ryan Woodman

Lots of options here, but not many proven ones. I think Dafydd Jenkins is the only one really, and even then I think he still needs to fill out to hit his full potential. I'm not a fan of Beard at all, whilst Rowlands and Ball are both past it. Seb Davies and Tshiunza have both failed miserably to develop at all! I'm a big fan of both Fender and Rhys Davies at the Ospreys, I think they have the bulk to really add something to this Welsh squad. Teddy Williams and Freddie Thomas also have a lot of potential as athletic ball playing locks, but balance needs to be found to ensure we have enough carrying grunt.

Blindside Flanker
Alex Mann | Aaron Wainwright | James Ratti | James Botham | Harri Keddie | Shane Lewis Hughes | Ross Moriarty

With the emergence of some options at no. 8, I'd look to move Wainwright back to blindside where he's a quality proven international. Mann, Ratti, and Botham all have potential. Botham in particular has had runs of games where he's looked very good, but hasn't been able to maintain it. Mann has dog, which I like, but I feel he needs to put on a stone to really be effective at the game he plays. Ross Moriarty could be an interesting option again if he can rediscover form at the Ospreys.

Openside Flanker
Jack Morgan | Josh Macleod | Tommy Reffell | Taine Basham | Thomas Young | Harri Deaves | Dan Davis

As ever we have plenty of option to choose from at openside. I personally rate Jack Morgan as possibly our only world class player, whilst I think Macleod proved himself last season and in Japan as an international quality player (and that's coming from someone that didn't rate him much previously). I'm probably hugely harsh on Reffell, but I've just never seen the fuss at international level, he's just meh in every regard! Basham has always had a hugely high ceiling, hopefully his move to Cardiff reignites his career. I like the look of Deaves as well, he's an all action player that gives everything. Young is probably past his best now, but you'd know he'd do a job if called on.

Number 8
Taulupe Faletau | Taine Plumtree |
Morgan Morse | Morgan Morris | Mackenzie Martin | Alun Lawrence

This is probably the first time in forever that we've had more than 2 genuine options at 8! Not putting arguably the greatest Welsh player of the professional era in purple hurts, but we must be close to saying farewell to Faletau with the injuries continuing to mount unfortunately. Plumtree was phenomenal during the second half of last season, and showed his worth in the second test this summer too. That brings me to the best Welsh age grade player we've ever seen, surely it's a matter of when, not if, Morgan Morse emulates Pollock and announces himself to the world? Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but **** it!

I'll continue onto the backs in the next few days, but thought I'd end with my preferred starting pack from the above:

01 Nicky Smith (in the absence of Rhys Carre)
02 Dewi Lake
03 Archie Griffin
04 Rhys Davies
05 Dafydd Jenkins
06 Aaron Wainwright
07 Jack Morgan
08 Taine Plumtree

16 Evan Lloyd
17 Kemsley Mathias (bit of a punt, but I think he's offer more impact than Thomas)
18 Dillon Lewis
19 Teddy Williams
20 Josh Macleod (with Morse coming in once he's cemented his place in the Ospreys starting pack)
What's your thoughts backline. 10 is still a massive problem (as is 9) and I still think Jarrod Evans is our best bet in the short to medium term but Tandy now has the luxury to think a bit more long term so might lean Edwards. Options are limited though.

I'd like to see something like the following against Argentina:

9. Williams
10. Evans
11. Murray
12. James*
13 Llewellyn
14. LRZ
15. Rogers

Bench: Hardy, Lloyd, Page

* I know James didn't feature much for the scarlets but I rate him. I'm really hoping Lloyd can sort it out at Cardiff too as he was pretty hopeless towards the end of last season.

Edit, I also realise Murray has been one of our few shining lights and has done nothing to warrant being dropped from 15 and moved out to wing but I prefer Rogers there
 
A bit of a more left field suggestion/hope/premonition is Joe Hawkins tearing it up at 10. If he did a 10,12,13 combo of him James and Llewellyn would be pretty beefy.
 
So onto the backs.

Scrum Half
Tomos Williams
| Kieron Hardy | Rhodri Williams | Reuben Morgan Williams | Ellis Bevan | Dane Blacker

Tomos is very close to being world class, but hasn't consistently translated it at international level, possibly due to the pack he plays behind. I was really disappointed with Hardy this summer, completely blew his chance. In contrast RMW looked good and could be viewed as 2nd choice. Need another couple of options to emerge sharpish.

Outside Half

Dan Edwards | Sam Costelow | Callum Sheedy | Joe Hawkins | Jarrod Evans | Ioan Lloyd

Edwards needs to be given a run of games. He was a little shaky on his first start, but showed signs of what he's capable of. Costelow just doesn't look up to it, I hope I'm wrong as I do feel for him, but international rugby is ruthless! I personally like Jarrod Evans, he could still have plenty to offer, but his decision to move to Harlequins was, and still is, a shocker! Hawkins is the wild card. I think he's a 12 really, but we do have options there, so him signing for Scarlers primarily as a 10 is very interesting. Lloyd is going the way of Matthew Morgan or Jordan Williams - mercurial talent that drifts in and out of games.

Centre

Johnny Williams | Joe Roberts | Eddie James | Ben Thomas | Keiran Williams | Max Llewellyn | Owen Watkin | Macs Page | Steff Emanuel | Aneurin Owen | Joe Westwood

We actually have a lot of interesting options at centre, but very few are really proven international players. Watkin may be the closest to that, but I just don't think he offers enough. Despite a good end to the season, Johnny Williams really struggled in Japan. I personally like Joe Roberts at 13, he's a player capable of making an outside break, but with a good all round game. Ben Thomas has had a lot of gametime at 12, and I like him as a second five-eighths option, but he just seems to fall slightly short. Maybe Hawkins could slot into that second playmaker role like he showed before leaving for Exeter. James and Llewellyn are both big men with soft hands. Two very promising youngsters are Page and Emanuel. Page especially looks something a little special. Grady could feature here as well, but lacks the intelligence for centre imo.

Wing
Louis Rees Zammit
|
Josh Adams | Keelan Giles | Ellis Mee | Rio Dyer | Mason Grady | Theo Cabango | Ryan Conbeer

Obviously having LRZ back available is such a huge plus, he should stroll back into the side. Adams has been a great servant, and was actually playing well in the second test this summer before going off injured, but he's lost a yard of pace and is injury prone. Giles, although not as electric as when he first broke onto the scene, has rounded as a player. He looked good off the bench v Japan. Mee and Dyer both looked good in parts, but have a lot to prove still. Grady's raw athletic ability should see him in contention, and I think letting him concentrate on wing will help him greatly. Cabango is one for the future for sure.

Fullback

Cam Winnett | Blair Murray | Tom Rogers | Max Nagy | Huw Anderson | Cai Evans | Angus O'Brien

Murray was a revelation for Wales this season, but like Welsh Exile, I do question whether fullback is the correct position for him given his size. Maybe wing would be a better fit. Winnett really needs to learn from what Halfpenny did early in his career, bulk the **** up! He's technically a great player, but struggles physically against the best. I've included Rogers as a fullback as that's where I see his future. He has all the attributes to excel at the back. Young Huw Anderson is shaping up very nicely at the Dragons, whilst I've always though O'Brien could bring something a little different with his siege gun boot, something really lacking in this current Welsh squad.

So onto my preferred backline:

09 Tomos Williams
10 Dan Edwards
11 LRZ
12 Joe Hawkins (if he can rediscover some form, otherwise either Eddie James or Llewellyn)
13 Joe Roberts (maybe Page in a year or so)
14 Blair Murray (maybe Mason Grady if he can show form after his injury)
15 Tom Rogers
 
I dunno about Edwards. He's better than Costelow but how much I'm not sure. You're right he deserves a run of games but let's see how Lloyd, Hawkins and Evans all perform between now and the autumn internationals.
 
Wales squad for the AI's.

Forwards

Keiron Assiratti (Cardiff), Adam Beard (Montpellier), Liam Belcher (Cardiff), Rhys Carre (Saracens), Ben Carter (Dragons), Brodie Coghlan (Dragons), Christian Coleman (Dragons), Rhys Davies (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Cardiff), James Fender (Ospreys), Archie Griffin (Bath), Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs), Dewi Lake (Ospreys), Alex Mann (Cardiff), Jac Morgan (Ospreys), Morgan Morse (Ospreys), Nicky Smith (Leicester Tigers), Danny Southworth (Cardiff), Gareth Thomas (Ospreys), Freddie Thomas (Gloucester), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons).

Backs

Josh Adams (Cardiff), Jacob Beetham (Cardiff), Rio Dyer (Dragons), Dan Edwards (Ospreys), Jarrod Evans (Harlequins), Kieran Hardy (Ospreys), Joe Hawkins (Scarlets), Louie Hennessey (Bath), Max Llewellyn (Gloucester), Reuben Morgan-Williams (Ospreys), Blair Murray (Scarlets), Louis Rees-Zammit (Bristol Bears), Tom Rogers (Scarlets), Callum Sheedy (Cardiff), Ben Thomas (Cardiff), Nick Tompkins (Saracens), Tomos Williams (Gloucester).
 
On the whole I'm happy enough. Delighted to see Carre there, he and Smith should form a good combo with Carre adding impact from the bench.

Moriarty unlucky as he's played really well since returning. Kieron Williams also unlucky, especially as Hennessey barely plays for Bath (talented though he his).

Not sure Belcher, Carter, Coleman, Dyer, or Tompkins are up to it, but needs must in some situations.

I think I'm happy that Tom Bowen hasn't been fast tracked as I think he needs more time at regional level first. People saying North managed at 18, but he was a monster already at that age, he was always going to cope well with the physical step-up. Bowen's time will come. Saying that, I'd maybe still prefer him over Dyer who's in a real slump atm.
 
On the whole I'm happy enough. Delighted to see Carre there, he and Smith should form a good combo with Carre adding impact from the bench.

Moriarty unlucky as he's played really well since returning. Kieron Williams also unlucky, especially as Hennessey barely plays for Bath (talented though he his).

Not sure Belcher, Carter, Coleman, Dyer, or Tompkins are up to it, but needs must in some situations.

I think I'm happy that Tom Bowen hasn't been fast tracked as I think he needs more time at regional level first. People saying North managed at 18, but he was a monster already at that age, he was always going to cope well with the physical step-up. Bowen's time will come. Saying that, I'd maybe still prefer him over Dyer who's in a real slump atm.
I just said the exact same thing to my brother re Bowen. Kid needs to play rugby. Let him crack on, plus we got LRZ back (though I think Adams is a lucky boy to still get included)
 
True, both Adams and Dyer are off form. What about Giles though? Thought he did really well in Japan and would be above Dyer easily for me. Unless his injury on the weekend was worse than thought?

Really glad Costellow hasn't been included for his own sake. I don't want a repeat of Priestland / Cuthbert under Gats. Let Costellow rebuild for a year or two, and if he proves form for Scarlets then get him back in.
 
True, both Adams and Dyer are off form. What about Giles though? Thought he did really well in Japan and would be above Dyer easily for me. Unless his injury on the weekend was worse than thought?

Really glad Costellow hasn't been included for his own sake. I don't want a repeat of Priestland / Cuthbert under Gats. Let Costellow rebuild for a year or two, and if he proves form for Scarlets then get him back in.
As always @dullonien I agree.
 
Right, I'm going for:

Smith Lake Griffin
Jenkins Davies
Wainwright Morgan
Faletau

Tomos
Evans
Rogers
Hawkins
Llewellyn
LRZ
Murray

Bench: Coghlan (why not) Carre, Coleman (again why not) Freddie Thomas, Morse, RMW, Edwards, Hennessy
 
True, both Adams and Dyer are off form. What about Giles though? Thought he did really well in Japan and would be above Dyer easily for me. Unless his injury on the weekend was worse than thought?

Really glad Costelow hasn't been included for his own sake. I don't want a repeat of Priestland / Cuthbert under Gats. Let Costelow rebuild for a year or two, and if he proves form for Scarlets then get him back in.
It has been confirmed that Giles has now picked up a calf injury. When will the poor guy be given a real break? Anyway, not such a bad squad, although the Dragons selections do surprise me.
 
Wales squad for the AI's.

Forwards

Keiron Assiratti (Cardiff), Adam Beard (Montpellier), Liam Belcher (Cardiff), Rhys Carre (Saracens), Ben Carter (Dragons), Brodie Coghlan (Dragons), Christian Coleman (Dragons), Rhys Davies (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Cardiff), James Fender (Ospreys), Archie Griffin (Bath), Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs), Dewi Lake (Ospreys), Alex Mann (Cardiff), Jac Morgan (Ospreys), Morgan Morse (Ospreys), Nicky Smith (Leicester Tigers), Danny Southworth (Cardiff), Gareth Thomas (Ospreys), Freddie Thomas (Gloucester), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons).

Backs

Josh Adams (Cardiff), Jacob Beetham (Cardiff), Rio Dyer (Dragons), Dan Edwards (Ospreys), Jarrod Evans (Harlequins), Kieran Hardy (Ospreys), Joe Hawkins (Scarlets), Louie Hennessey (Bath), Max Llewellyn (Gloucester), Reuben Morgan-Williams (Ospreys), Blair Murray (Scarlets), Louis Rees-Zammit (Bristol Bears), Tom Rogers (Scarlets), Callum Sheedy (Cardiff), Ben Thomas (Cardiff), Nick Tompkins (Saracens), Tomos Williams (Gloucester).
You missed out Taine Plumtree (Scarlets forward).
 

Latest posts

Sponsored
UnlistMe
Back
Top