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Warriors could start NRL in negative points

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woosaah

Guest
Warriors could start NRL in negative points
22 February 2006 
By GREG PRICHARD
Sydney Morning Herald

The New Zealand Warriors are set to be penalised four to six competition points and fined up to $A500,000 for salary cap rorts, dating back to at least 2004, which put the club more than $A500,000 over the $A3.25 million cap limit.


The club's new management team is blaming the previous administration for secret player payments that have put the team's 2006 campaign at grave risk of becoming a disaster.


Warriors chairman Maurice Kidd told the Sydney Morning Herald yesterday that when the management informed him of irregularities they had found, he reacted with "horror, shock and disbelief".


"It ****** me off," Kidd said. "It was brought to my attention and then we immediately brought it to the attention of the NRL. The arrangements in question were made prior to the new administration coming in and we told the league we didn't know how this should be treated. It was a Pandora's box."


Late last year, Wayne Scurrah was appointed chief executive as part of a new administration. But while the new management's co-operation with the NRL will help the club in terms of penalty, it won't stop the league from hitting the Warriors hard. The Warriors revealed the fact they were under investigation by issuing a media release yesterday morning. It was confirmed soon after by a release from the NRL.


It emerged Warriors management had last week discovered what the club described in the release as "a number of potential discrepancies" while preparing for an audit by the league's salary cap boss, Ian Schubert.


The Sydney Morning Herald understands that when Schubert previously examined the club's books in November he sensed something was wrong, which led to his scheduling a more thorough investigation.


Kidd, Scurrah and John Hart, the Warriors executive director of football, met NRL chief executive David Gallop, Schubert and other league officials on Monday. The league's investigation will continue, with a result likely next week, but it is clear the Warriors are in big trouble. Gallop added yesterday: "There are significant questions that need answers."


Asked if the Warriors could lose points as well as be fined, Gallop replied: "All clubs know competition points are in jeopardy when breaches are of a certain nature and/or magnitude."


The most infamous salary cap case involved the Bulldogs, who, several weeks before the 2002 finals series, were penalised 37 competition points and fined $A500,000 for systematic rorting. The fact this year's competition hasn't even started will be considered when the NRL decides on a penalty for the Warriors.


It would be hard enough for them to start a tough competition on -4 or -6 points, but the club could suffer a financial meltdown if it was penalised right out of the running for the finals, and crowds and sponsors dropped off. The Warriors are doing all they can to co-operate with the NRL, hoping that will have an impact on the penalty.


"I obviously take this very seriously," Kidd said. "And naturally I'm concerned we might face penalties. It's like if you're caught breaking and entering or drink-driving - you have to face the consequences. But, if we have to face the music, I'm sure that if anyone commits an offence there is usually some leniency if you are up front and co-operate."


Asked how big the breach was, Kidd replied: "No breach is minor." Asked if he thought there would be a points penalty, he replied: "I hope not."


Gallop gave Kidd and the club credit for working with the league on the issue. But, at the same time, he stressed the league's rules on the salary cap had to be respected above everything.


"The penalty system that is in place has always given credit for disclosure and co-operation," Gallop said. "But, equally, cap breaches involving secret payments strike at the heart of the fairness of the competition."


Kidd said the coaching and playing staff at the Warriors were "upset, but coping very well".


The NRL could look at the involvement of player agents and players more closely in this case, given the league's new agent-accreditation scheme. The Warriors' odds of winning the wooden spoon shortened yesterday and some agencies suspended betting.
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This isn't good for the club, they dont have that many supporters going to the games now days anyway
 
T

THE CHIROPRACTOR101

Guest
hahahaha i reckon

warriors will win...as confidently as i preached about the kiwis winning the trinations and f***ing up the rotation that those dopeheads in aussie had of winning games against us regularly...

warriors will make top 8 and will kick ass in the playoffs...and they will smash opponents in the regular with abit more control of their skills and emotions they can do this....

WARRIORZ 4 LIFE
 
S

St Helens RLFC

Guest
Originally posted by ak47@Feb 22 2006, 09:40 PM
WARRIORS................COME OUT TO PAAAAY!!!!!

:lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
W

woosaah

Guest
Warriors extended a lifeline
23 February 2006 
By TOBY ROBSON

SYDNEY: The National Rugby League has extended a lifeline to the New Zealand Warriors, saying they may not be stripped of competition points before the start of the season.


But the size and severity of the club's punishment for salary cap breaches dating back to 2004 may hinge on the results of an internal investigation which saw individual player interviews begin on the Gold Coast yesterday.

Australian newspapers widely reported that the Warriors would be docked two to six points and fined up to $A500,000 ($NZ560,000) after admitting on Tuesday to a number of "discrepancies" in relation to the NRL's $A3.25 million cap.

NRL director of communications John Brady said yesterday it was not a fait accompli that the Warriors begin the 2006 season on -2, -4 or -6 points.

"There are a range of penalties that are possibilities . . . but no, we have not committed at all on what the penalty might be."

Brady said that could range from a fine to a points deduction, but that no decision would be made till all information was made available to salary cap auditor Ian Schubert.

The NRL has wasted little time in beginning its investigation, sending the Warriors a preliminary report of its findings earlier in the week.

It is understood the Warriors were given till tomorrow to interview players about the details of their contracts and issues relating to the cap and to report back to the NRL.

That process began yesterday on the Gold Coast, where the Warriors are preparing for a pre-season match against the Bulldogs on Saturday night.

Warriors chairman Maurice Kidd confirmed club chief executive Wayne Scurrah and executive director of football John Hart were talking to the players.

"We have to work through with them and discuss the issues. Part of the issue is to talk to the players and find out what they know," Kidd said, before adding that players would not have their contracts downgraded regardless of the findings.

"We will stand by any legally binding contracts."

Details of the Warriors' breaches have not been revealed, but offences reported in the Daily Telegraph in Australia ranged from funnelling payments to players through Cullen Investments, offering stars high-paying jobs when they retired and flying player agents to and from New Zealand.

The Warriors and the Brisbane Broncos are the only privately owned clubs in the NRL – making their payments via private companies particularly difficult to audit.

Whatever the outcome, Kidd said it was too early to say the club would be docked points.

"Until we complete the investigation and they (the NRL) complete theirs it's a little premature to start talking about penalties. You can talk about them, but it's only speculation," Kidd said.

"We are working as hard as we can to minimise the breach and therefore minimise the penalty."

Kidd has been in the firing line as the club's chairman, but may have been a victim of the management practices of his predecessor Mick Watson, who was the club chief executive from 2001 till October last year.

The Warriors have operated two boards, one for the Warriors which runs the day to day operations, and one for Cullen Sports, the owners.

Kidd was a member of the Cullen board and Watson the chairman of the Warriors board.

It is understood the Warriors board rarely met, which could go some way to explaining why the breaches were not detected by board members or Kidd as the club's chairman.

Watson could not be reached yesterday but is understood to be happy to talk to the NRL.

[/b]
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3581310a1823,00.html
Thought i would keep updates in this thread :)
 
W

woosaah

Guest
Jones deal could be key to salary cap breach
23 February 2006 
By CHALPAT SONTI

League legend Stacey Jones is believed to be the reason the New Zealand Warriors are under investigation for a salary cap rort.


The breach could lead to the Warriors – the flagship for the sport in this country – being stung with a fine and docked six competition points before the upcoming National Rugby League season even begins.

The Warriors informed the NRL of "a number of potential breaches" of the cap – but blamed the problem on former chief executive Mick Watson, who resigned last year.

Both the Warriors and NRL have refused to give details of the breaches, but sources told The Dominion Post they concerned a side deal Jones – who also left the club last year – had with principal sponsor Vodafone, which was not declared as part of the cap as required.

A former Kiwis star said the Warriors could not lay the blame solely at Watson's feet.

"Where was the money coming from? They had to be taking it from somewhere and it's a bit rich saying Mick Watson was the only one at fault. The owners, the chairman, they had to know."

If the money had gone directly from outside sponsors to a player – such as from Vodafone to Jones – the NRL had no power to investigate.

"They can't look into the books of private companies. Someone like Vodafone will tell them to f*** off."

The breaches would cause divisions within the present Warriors squad. "Those who weren't getting the payments will be saying 'what about me?' while those who are getting them will be wondering 'what is going to happen to me?'"

Another source said the expensive signings of high-profile stars Steve Price and Ruben Wiki had obviously forced the Warriors to look for other ways to pay Jones.

Such deals were not uncommon and were hard to police. It was possible a disgruntled former Warriors employee had tipped off investigators.
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3581957a1823,00.html

more info :)
 
W

woosaah

Guest
yeah warriors suck, but there are a few supporters out there who l ike to try and kid themselves

like chiro
 
S

St Helens RLFC

Guest
Originally posted by woosaah@Feb 22 2006, 11:42 PM
yeah warriors suck, but there are a few supporters out there who l ike to try and kid themselves

like chiro
GO WARRIORZ.
 
T

THE CHIROPRACTOR101

Guest
WARRIORZ FOR LIFE MAYN!!!..

kid myself?...they should do fine this year,good core of forwards and some dangerous backs...

two things they do lack is a consistant playmaker and a real speedster...they got all the power in the backfield and there scramble defence is top notch at times but at other times they need a speedster to gun down a breakaway....

if however they worked very hard on the defensive style this preseason and stay commited to it and believe in it and there abilities then there is no reason for me to think that they will make the top 8...

unless there offensive gameplan radically changes..."reggae football" as proclaimed by gus gould and ray "rabs" warren

st helens?...stop imitating and stick to your retirement league where you get all our old guys and pay them a bundle to make you northerners look like you can actually play league....stop degrading yourself...

its very sad
 
A

ak47

Guest
as much as this is an issue for the NRL to address

even if they discovered this cap rort in round 24 like the doggies, they would have had their respective points deducted

the NRL needs to be consistent, so by either discovering at end of season or at the start, the same penalty will apply

the only difference is that they already know, what points they have to make up for
u either start on negative 4 points, or get the 4 points deducted from end of season

same result applies

too bad, and thats what happens when u cheat

the problem is that the NRL reckon they have a decent audit process in place.....this wasnt picked up by the NRL auditor......was it??

wasnt it an internal voluntary own up to wrong doings???

edit just read it thouroughly - looks as the shubert was onto them, and they just had to come clean......probably saved them abother 12 pts deduction or whatever...kinda like pleading guilty, we as the dogs tried everything to keep it under wraps.
 
E

esoj

Guest
yeah well schubert was going to audit them anyway they just beat him to the punch. points deductions are fine for sure but the warriors are being puninshed for previous seasons breaches with points in this years comp when they are under the cap. they will not have earned any points while over the cap so why should they be docked points. that is one reason the dogs got hit hard as their points were acculamted during the season while they were over the cap.

if the warriors got caught during the season they would have lost more points for sure. it just seems a bit odd they get punished this year even though they are under the cap. if points are goind to be deducted it should be done in the season the breaches were made not in a season when a club is under the cap and has not earned any points yet
 
A

ak47

Guest
Originally posted by esoj@Mar 1 2006, 09:43 AM
yeah well schubert was going to audit them anyway they just beat him to the punch. points deductions are fine for sure but the warriors are being puninshed for previous seasons breaches with points in this years comp when they are under the cap. they will not have earned any points while over the cap so why should they be docked points. that is one reason the dogs got hit hard as their points were acculamted during the season while they were over the cap.

if the warriors got caught during the season they would have lost more points for sure. it just seems a bit odd they get punished this year even though they are under the cap. if points are goind to be deducted it should be done in the season the breaches were made not in a season when a club is under the cap and has not earned any points yet
yeah but u cant have the loophole of saying "it was old managment" blah blah

its the club as a whole - not whom runs it

its an audit process

there's no expiry date to auditing
thus there's no expiry date to punishment

the taxman can still bust ya for wrongdoings even if they occured a decade ago

they are getting punished regardless, coz the have players they obtained in the rort year are still representing them........if they didnt rort, they wouldnt even have them

Price and Wiki for example, they recruited them unfairly, they gotto pay for that regardless when it happened.

a fine yes
pts deducted - well thats a grey area that the NRL needs to adress

The NRL cap audit process is elementary compared to other sports with caps
they need to change it so nobody cheats
ie get tax records of the partners and family etc, coz 3rd party payments are rife in the NRL, and at the moment, shubert cant access these records
 
E

esoj

Guest
yes the fine is fine I did not dispute that at all. i never said the warriors should get off. but being penalised points in a new season is imo stupid and unfair when they are under the cap for this season and have not earned any point in the new season.

the precedent is set though now. if any other clubs have breaches that happened in other seasons then they do should be docked points depending on how far over the cap they are.

the salary cap audit is a joke as seen by this and the bulldogs scandal. it relies on people inside the club way too much. the current process obviously doesn't work as the warriors breaches went back to 2004 so the audit of schubert didn't pick on it. for the salary cap to be enforced properly the auditors need more access
 
A

ak47

Guest
Originally posted by esoj@Mar 1 2006, 02:10 PM
yes the fine is fine I did not dispute that at all. i never said the warriors should get off. but being penalised points in a new season is imo stupid and unfair when they are under the cap for this season and have not earned any point in the new season.

as david gallop said very well

"you cant just have clubs write up a cheque and pay the fine and move on, they need to be penalised in other ways to ensure it wont be done again"

Otherwise the rich clubs will just sign a cheque each yr and rort the cap yr in yr out

we cant have that
 
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