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What if Aus leave Super rugby?

mania

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Honestly I'm perfectly fine with Aus going back to 3 teams.

Brumbies
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Okay the Tahs instead of the Force :mad:
agree brumbies & reds.

NSW meh
 

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i have tried to explain, a lot of NZ's dont view playing the SA super teams as positively as SA might view playing ours, we have gone through this, a lot boiling down to the horrible games times, it cuts out the casual fan

They not doing it just for fun...theyre doing it because thats what alot of NZ fans want
That's all fine and dandy, but did NZ take into consideration the financial implications in doing this?? the amount of money they are going to lose when South Africa, and by extension the entire NH's viewership numbers are gone??

For a South African perspective, dumping NZ and Australia and moving to the NH is financially a much better plan, so I can see why us Saffa wouldn't fight the NZ'ers on these talks, but I think the narrow-sightedness by the NZ administrators is something that should be a major concern for the NZ rugby public.

Remember, that if NZ loses a lot of money, they won't be able to keep their big name stars in NZ and will have a bigger player exodus than they have now, whereas South Africa will reduce their massive player exodus and keep more stars in SA, meaning the local teams have more star value, which in turn means more people watching the game.

If we use that example, and add your perspective of the casual viewer, I bet the numbers of casual viewership will also drop if they don't know any of the newbies running out instead of capped All Black players who are all playing in France or Japan earning a lot more money.
 

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That's all fine and dandy, but did NZ take into consideration the financial implications in doing this?? the amount of money they are going to lose when South Africa, and by extension the entire NH's viewership numbers are gone??

For a South African perspective, dumping NZ and Australia and moving to the NH is financially a much better plan, so I can see why us Saffa wouldn't fight the NZ'ers on these talks, but I think the narrow-sightedness by the NZ administrators is something that should be a major concern for the NZ rugby public.

Remember, that if NZ loses a lot of money, they won't be able to keep their big name stars in NZ and will have a bigger player exodus than they have now, whereas South Africa will reduce their massive player exodus and keep more stars in SA, meaning the local teams have more star value, which in turn means more people watching the game.

If we use that example, and add your perspective of the casual viewer, I bet the numbers of casual viewership will also drop if they don't know any of the newbies running out instead of capped All Black players who are all playing in France or Japan earning a lot more money.
no, im sure theyre just ignoring the money side of things...come on man

reports are the last tv deal was the first where NZ actually contributed more to SAANZAR than SA, also report that with the travel and the drop in viewers attributed to things like weird game times that a smaller more tightly run comp could actually be better for NZ financially

so people in the NH only watch for the SA teams? seriously?

and thats the things with casual fans...they dont know all the players names...theyre there to have a few beers and see the local team win

I'd be more concerned of the NZR board didn't listen to what the people want, i think a few too many people on here only listen to the opinion of people on here ie rugby nerds, and dont realise the rugby nerds are out numbered by people that just like a bit of code
 
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That's all fine and dandy, but did NZ take into consideration the financial implications in doing this?? the amount of money they are going to lose when South Africa, and by extension the entire NH's viewership numbers are gone??

For a South African perspective, dumping NZ and Australia and moving to the NH is financially a much better plan, so I can see why us Saffa wouldn't fight the NZ'ers on these talks, but I think the narrow-sightedness by the NZ administrators is something that should be a major concern for the NZ rugby public.

Remember, that if NZ loses a lot of money, they won't be able to keep their big name stars in NZ and will have a bigger player exodus than they have now, whereas South Africa will reduce their massive player exodus and keep more stars in SA, meaning the local teams have more star value, which in turn means more people watching the game.

If we use that example, and add your perspective of the casual viewer, I bet the numbers of casual viewership will also drop if they don't know any of the newbies running out instead of capped All Black players who are all playing in France or Japan earning a lot more money.
The other positive for South Africa in playing North is that even if the added TV revenue does not reflect inside our provincial teams it would still be beneficial to the country and national team because if or when we lose players to "overseas" teams then they will now just play in the same league as us. So we can then better compare these players as we would be regularly playing against the players that signs for foreign teams. Our player pool would grow while taking away opportunities of youngsters in their teams. From a South African rugby perspective that sounds very enticing in attempting to establish a dominance at number 1 in the world rankings.

Our players won't be leaving to NZ so the exodus to overseas teams would turn from a massive disadvantage because it dilutes the quality of Super rugby to a massive advantage because they stay in the same league. (Provided they dont go into the top 14 or English league))

If we can somehow also join the Champions cup then atleast from a Springbok perspective the exodus of local players does not matter, infact it would be a massive advantage.

It would still hurt from a provincial perspective to lose players that hampers our chances of winning a title.


In my heart I hope Super rugby stays despite the fact that a northern move makes more sense. I love myself a Sharks vs NZ game. And I can't ever accept my team leaving a competition which have come so close to winning on multiple times but have not actually won. I will always wonder how it would have felt. Especially since we should have won it in 2007 and it was taken away from us by bad calls. from a performance perspective Super rugby is the gold standard in World rugby. Even if Jabby cares about the fairweather casual fans, that does not outweigh the historical and performance significance.
 
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no, im sure theyre just ignoring the money side of things...come on man

reports are the last tv deal was the first where NZ actually contributed more to SAANZAR than SA, also report that with the travel and the drop in viewers attributed to things like weird game times that a smaller more tightly run comp could actually be better for NZ financially

so people in the NH only watch for the SA teams? seriously?

and thats the things with casual fans...they dont know all the players names...theyre there to have a few beers and see the local team win

I'd be more concerned of the NZR board didn't listen to what the people want, i think a few too many people on here only listen to the opinion of people on here ie rugby nerds, and dont realise the rugby nerds are out numbered by people that just like a bit of code
No, I think you are missing the point here. The UK is on the same time zone as South Africa (with a difference of 1 or 2 hours dependant on Daylight Savings). South Africa's boradcaster, Supersport, broadcasts to every country in Africa, including the islands in the Indian Ocean like Madagascar, Reunion, Mauritius, Maldives and the Seychelles.

Supersport also has an agreement with Sky Sports UK and ITV, and that's why people in the UK more often get to see SH rugby with South African Commentators as their default commentary team.

I'm sure there would have been an increase in viewership in many countries that doesn't currently play rugby, for their fans to watch rugby, and I am just like them, extremely grateful, as the highlights of the past decade reruns has become a bit tedious now. Live sport is just so much better than reruns.

Should SA return to play, in the next month, and there is still no rugby on in the UK, it would be very interesting to see the numbers of viewers watching the SA games, which would be between 15:00 and 21:00 in the UK, on a Friday and a Saturday, my guess is it would surpass the current NZ viewing numbers.

Time Zones, play more in the favour for SA than NZ and Australia. Not only the UK, but also Italy and France.

And based on what SARU said yesterday, it seems like there will be more of the same in 2021, with each country doing their own thing, with a cross-country playoff at the end.
 

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interesting stats coming out of the uk
Thanks for the link Jabby. I've watched every Super Rugby Aotearoa and AU game so far. And I watched them live California time, not later on demand (even though I could have). Losing sleep is OK, that's how hungry I've been for pro rugby! :cool:
 

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that's why people in the UK more often get to see SH rugby with South African Commentators as their default commentary team.
I don't think this is true - we get the Aussie/NZ commentary more, I couldn't name a single South African commentator but know all the Aus/NZ lot
 

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I don't think this is true - we get the Aussie/NZ commentary more, I couldn't name a single South African commentator but know all the Aus/NZ lot
Isn't it like that anymore? I know you can now select the commentary team to listen to for every game. My apologies if that's the case.
 

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Isn't it like that anymore? I know you can now select the commentary team to listen to for every game. My apologies if that's the case.
Even if it isn't as an Aussie I'd rather listen to the boring South African commentators who actually talk about the game and have the driest sense of humour over Phil Kearns and Rod Kafer waffling on about how things were back in their day and commenting on haircuts.
 

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No, I think you are missing the point here. The UK is on the same time zone as South Africa (with a difference of 1 or 2 hours dependant on Daylight Savings). South Africa's boradcaster, Supersport, broadcasts to every country in Africa, including the islands in the Indian Ocean like Madagascar, Reunion, Mauritius, Maldives and the Seychelles.

Supersport also has an agreement with Sky Sports UK and ITV, and that's why people in the UK more often get to see SH rugby with South African Commentators as their default commentary team.

I'm sure there would have been an increase in viewership in many countries that doesn't currently play rugby, for their fans to watch rugby, and I am just like them, extremely grateful, as the highlights of the past decade reruns has become a bit tedious now. Live sport is just so much better than reruns.

Should SA return to play, in the next month, and there is still no rugby on in the UK, it would be very interesting to see the numbers of viewers watching the SA games, which would be between 15:00 and 21:00 in the UK, on a Friday and a Saturday, my guess is it would surpass the current NZ viewing numbers.

Time Zones, play more in the favour for SA than NZ and Australia. Not only the UK, but also Italy and France.

And based on what SARU said yesterday, it seems like there will be more of the same in 2021, with each country doing their own thing, with a cross-country playoff at the end.
i get it, i do, but we cant say time zone it really important in one situation (a positive in the case of SA playing in europe) but nothing important in another (a negative in the old Super rugby deal)

I honestly thin a lot could have been gained with NZ and Aus getting more day games, more people would have watched in NZ, but we are where we are
 

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i get it, i do, but we cant say time zone it really important in one situation (a positive in the case of SA playing in europe) but nothing important in another (a negative in the old Super rugby deal)

I honestly thin a lot could have been gained with NZ and Aus getting more day games, more people would have watched in NZ, but we are where we are
I would be very interested to see some stats in the difference in viewership from other countries between the Saturday games and the Sunday games.

At the moment the Sunday games are on at 05:35 in the mornings, and it's winter and still night in SA. I can honestly say that I haven't watched a single Sunday game live.

You were one of the first posters to mention the time zone issue on this thread. And I would be inclined to think that the time zones does have a part to play, more so when you are looking at the bigger picture. Let's say Super Rugby Aotearoa is the future for NZ domestic rugby for the next 3 or so years. If they have all their games during the day, the players will get accustomed to those conditions only (playing under natural sunlight, no dew on the grass etc...). Then it's time for international test matches, and because to incoming international team is from another time zone NZRU tends to have their games at night to boost viewership numbers, suddenly your own players who haven't played a game at night for 3 years, now all of a sudden has to play at night. That is just one minor issue that could have an enormous, unnecessary effect on the players and team that shouldn't really be occupying their minds and thoughts.

Time Zones is unfortunately a very big issue in this situation. Time, in general is a major contributing factor. Time is what people use to plan their days and lives. And when it comes to tv, times for shows plays a massive role in how people decide what to watch, that is why there is a term like primetime tv. Sure, the era of binge-watching, has dampen that somewhat, but you can't binge-watch live sport.

I know for a fact that peak time for watching tv in SA is between 6pm and 9pm daily, no matter what day of the week. I know this because nearly every fibre broadband ISP tells you that it's the only time they will be actively throttling your streaming services to accomodate the increase in traffic.
 

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For context, 220,000 Australians and NZers live in the UK
Yeah it was more the increase from previous years

I fondly remember going to temple walkabout to watch the AB’s play, nothing like a snakebite at 8am on a sat morning
 
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I would be very interested to see some stats in the difference in viewership from other countries between the Saturday games and the Sunday games.

Really weird you seem to think what we’re asking for will be bad for us but it’s only what SA is currently enjoying

At the moment the Sunday games are on at 05:35 in the mornings, and it's winter and still night in SA. I can honestly say that I haven't watched a single Sunday game live.

You were one of the first posters to mention the time zone issue on this thread. And I would be inclined to think that the time zones does have a part to play, more so when you are looking at the bigger picture. Let's say Super Rugby Aotearoa is the future for NZ domestic rugby for the next 3 or so years. If they have all their games during the day, the players will get accustomed to those conditions only (playing under natural sunlight, no dew on the grass etc...). Then it's time for international test matches, and because to incoming international team is from another time zone NZRU tends to have their games at night to boost viewership numbers, suddenly your own players who haven't played a game at night for 3 years, now all of a sudden has to play at night. That is just one minor issue that could have an enormous, unnecessary effect on the players and team that shouldn't really be occupying their minds and thoughts.

Time Zones is unfortunately a very big issue in this situation. Time, in general is a major contributing factor. Time is what people use to plan their days and lives. And when it comes to tv, times for shows plays a massive role in how people decide what to watch, that is why there is a term like primetime tv. Sure, the era of binge-watching, has dampen that somewhat, but you can't binge-watch live sport.

I know for a fact that peak time for watching tv in SA is between 6pm and 9pm daily, no matter what day of the week. I know this because nearly every fibre broadband ISP tells you that it's the only time they will be actively throttling your streaming services to accomodate the increase in traffic.
I mean...SA super teams get to play a lot more day games currently (My whole point about the seemingly unfair schedule) and that doesn’t seem to be a concern for the springboks, and the current programme is one evening game and one day game and its getting great feedback
Really weird you seem to think what we’re asking for will be bad for us but it’s only what SA is currently enjoying

and if you think 535am is the same as 1am as far as ease of getting up to watch then I’m not sure what else I can say, I get up most mornings between 530 and 6
 
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I mean...SA super teams get to play a lot more day games currently (My whole point about the seemingly unfair schedule) and that doesn’t seem to be a concern for the springboks, and the current programme is one evening game and one day game and its getting great feedback
Really weird you seem to think what we’re asking for will be bad for us but it’s only what SA is currently enjoying

and if you think 535am is the same as 1am as far as ease of getting up to watch then I’m not sure what else I can say, I get up most mornings between 530 and 6
our day games are 15:00 and 17:00 but the 17:00 games are being played under the spotlights as it gets dark around 18:00.

Every Springbok game in SA is played at 17:00 no matter the opposition. It's the most reasonable time for the majority of viewers around the world.

You get up between 05:30 and 06:00. all good. Myself and a lot of people I know go to sleep between 24:00 and 02:00. Horses for courses I guess. Some are early birds, others are nightowls. It varies due to work, home, family and interests... Not going to fight you on that.

What NZ is asking isn't bad for NZ? The only way they will know that, is when this pandemic is over, and everything is back to normal and every country can play sports in their own country at their preferred times. It doesn't help they do feasibility studies DURING the worldwide pandemic. There will be no clear answer as to what will be financially attainable.

Sure they get a whole lot of viewership now, but that's because they and Australia are the only ones able to show it. The people are hungry for sport, live sport and they will watch whatever they can to have their fix.

The current time of the matches in NZ shouldn't be a point to raise now. because there's no other sport at that time, apart from test cricket between West Indies and England, which is just a big Yawn in any case. Saturday mornings I have a choice between watching cartoons with my son, Super Rugby Aotearoa, Reruns of Big Bang Theory, or How It's Made on Discovery channel...
 

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What NZ is asking isn't bad for NZ? The only way they will know that, is when this pandemic is over, and everything is back to normal and every country can play sports in their own country at their preferred times. It doesn't help they do feasibility studies DURING the worldwide pandemic. There will be no clear answer as to what will be financially attainable.
that whole things missed my point that all a lot of us is asking for is what SA has now a day game and an evening game rather than kicking off as late a 8pm...so if it hasn't been bad for SA...how can it be bad for NZ?
 

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The Sunday afternoon game replaces the Friday night game. The only timezone the Friday night game was good for is NZ only as it is a working week morning in the Western Europe / South Africa timezone.

Sunday afternoons was part of the planning when still expecting to restart with no crowds, and travelling team was to fly in and out in same day (no overnight stay , less contact with potential disease spread). Was going to be Saturday day games as well, but moved those to night when NZ left all lockdown restrictions.

Having afternoon games is useful to keep rugby attendance from being stuck in the ******-up adult ghetto it has drifted into in nz. But Friday night games would be a big earner for local sky. 5 teams and only 2 games per week means cant satisfy both (whether SRA or the Super 18, this was the same problem , same for all 4 participating nations).
 

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Well SA Rugby will have a press conference to give more details regarding the future of Super Rugby and SA's involvement. After that article was published, there were several others popping, where SA Rugby has confirmed that they know that it's what NZ wants and that this pandemic has made it increasingly more difficult to travel.

What bothers me though, is how this pandemic is being used an "out" or excuse. Why tarnish a relationship of over 3 decades, because of 1 virus, especially after the consensus found last year to revert back to the previous model of round robin???
Tarnish a three decade relationship?
I can't recall a year where SA haven't used threatening to play in NH competitions to get what they want, we are just preempting the usual process by saying "sure go".

Personally, I think the best option is 3 separate competitions made of as many teams and locations as each country wants with a playoff of the three top teams at the end.
 
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