What position should earn the most money?

[TRF_stormer2010]

A thread to discuss how you think positions should be ranked in terms of what they ought to bring in money-wise..

To kick off discussion, I suppose factors to consider is specialization, rarity of quality players in whatever position and the contribution of said position to a game both generally and specifically.

Keeping that in mind I'd go for a ranking of;

1 Tight head - very specialized and a position very world class quality is quite rare so i rate a good TH very highly despite their contribution would probably be very much limited to the scrum

2/3 Scrum- / Fly half - game maker, goal kicker

4 Hooker - the scrum, the line out and general tight five play, pretty specialized

5/6 Locks - the scrum, the line-out. Possibly as a South African I tend to place bigger emphasis on the line-out than what others might

7 Openside flank - a good one can be pretty impactful on a game and can win a game weakly refereed game single handedly

8 Loose head prop

9 Blindside flank

10 Outside center

11 Fullback

12 Inside center

13 No.8

14/15 Wingers

 

[Big Ewis]

lol

EDIT: okay I've decided to add a bit to this post.

1 - Tighthead.
The master piece in the scrum. You get penalties from scrum, that's 3pointers, a platform to operate from, penalty tries occasionally, a strong choice to pick when you've got the penalty, a way to intimidate and set the tone mentally, ascendency in the pack for 80min. Takes years to develop a good TH, they're only really good during a fairly narrow window of time, they're the rarest commodity.

2 - Flyhalf.
Sexton, Wilko, Quade Cooper, Dan Carter, Trinh-Duc, Nico Sanchez: they dictate the tempo, sometimes the shape of the game and they influence it tremendously. Not a whole lot is more important than that.
Just one example: France are on top of the world during the 2012 EOYT because Michalak was the best 10 around during that month. He starts playing like shiit to start 2013, the whole team is subjected to a downward spiral.
And of course, classically your penalty boot. Most of your points will come from him. And points are vital.

3 - Flanker
I won't separate BS and OS because it's not always clear-cut, esp. for me being French, but so much of the game is won at the breakdown, today more than ever, and look at the ERC player of last year, it was Steff Armitage because he was a bdown masterclass. You win the ground, you win the game. Bdown is the new scrum in a particular sort of way. Tackling with high workrate, fetching, slowing down rucks, clearing out, carrying hard and heavy, lineout catchers, lengthy, powerful, athletic...very important.

4 - Scrumhalf
box kicking, insuring the transfer from rucks to FH and backline, general playmaking, being the crafty little brainy wiz. Very important.

5 - Hooker
I don't have an example of a team really missing smt when they only had a mediocre hooker. As long as he can throw a bit for lineouts, hold up decently in scrums, and offer extra hands in the loose...but still a very specialized, technical position that requires experience and dexterity that don't just appear magically.

6 - Fullback
last line of defense, kicks a lot, must perform under pressure constantly, under high ball, insure continuity during counters, and is counted on to offer an attacking dimension and beat defenders off the step...very important.

The rest: centers, wingers, LH prop, no.8, locks...every position is important, but I feel they're less *vital* than the above.
- Wingers: you'll see teams with very average wingers who still score tries because they mount a play patiently and the offense will come. Plus, you don't have to score a ton of tries to win games. England is the classic example, more recently their 2013 campaign. A top team, sterile offensively.
- Centers: there are tons of average/okay centers in the Top 14 (which I know best) who get the job done well. They're not all 105kg who step, beat defenders, punch through the defense and make clean breaks, are Conrad Smiths with the passing; but they're enough to insure continuity for the ball and offer sound defense. You don't *need* great centers to win.
- Locks: counted on for the work, not the skill or talent. They're warriors, and chances are if they play Rugby they'll commit for 80min. Some are outstanding, of course, but a good solid 1m95 115kg lock who commits to the rucks, maybe catches LO throws, okay work rate, basic handles, is all you really *need*.
- Loosehead: you look at a Marcos Ayerza who's the stronger element of a scrum and he's practically assuming the role of the TH, completely neutralizes/incapacitates the opposing TH, sure a LH is important for a scrum. But they're not the most important in the loose, aren't often great defenders, and generally I wouldn't put them in the *vital* column.
- No.8: probably my favorite position, but just not nearly vital. Yes it's cool to have a Louis Picamoles, operates from the base of a scrum inside your 22 and takes off to punch in a try on 3 of your defenders, carries hard, is a platform on his own, good under the high ball, serves as a fourth back three often...but this is all added value, an extra weapon. Not nearly vital.

 

[TRF_heineken]

hmmm...

It's a good question. I think in Rugby there are fine lines between positions and who should be paid more than others.

You could have a world class fly half, and pay him a ****load of money, but his value will be non-existant if you have a poor pack and scrumhalf to give him good ball.

Also, I think a full back should be ranked a bit higher. Especially nowadays with them being more creative and the kick-chase gameplans top teams play.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

hmmm...

It's a good question. I think in Rugby there are fine lines between positions and who should be paid more than others.

You could have a world class fly half, and pay him a ****load of money, but his value will be non-existant if you have a poor pack and scrumhalf to give him good ball.

Also, I think a full back should be ranked a bit higher. Especially nowadays with them being more creative and the kick-chase gameplans top teams play.

A good call; synergistic inter-dependant values. For that you would either have to know the exact players you have and adjust values based on their value relative to the quality of related positions or if we are taking it from the other direction and we know beforehand what type of game we want to play you'd probably group up linked positions based on what type of game you are looking to play and what position will be most important in implementing that tactic or group(s) of tactics. In that sense 10,2, 5 and 15 could be very much linked if you rely heavily on a field position game.

And yes, full back was the position if any that i considered bumping a bit higher on my own rating. Care to write out your own fo the sake of interest?

And, yes, Big Ewis. I am bored. It is Friday and I refuse to work. Still there might be value (LOL) in this discussion.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

1: Goal kicker
2: tight head
3: Half backs
4: Front row
5: The rest

 

[big ginger 8]

Tighthead and Outhalf should always pretty much be the top two.

I'd say outside centre should be higher up the list as finding top quality players for that position is pretty hard and it's the hardest one to defend.

Number 8 would also be ahead of blindside I'd say. Fairly specialised and the number 8's for most top teams are pretty key.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So far then we have bumps for the fullbacks and outside center so the blind side drops already. And taking Cmac's comments on board the locks drop below the loose head..

3
10
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1
4/5
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11/14

 

[TRF_heineken]

A good call; synergistic inter-dependant values. For that you would either have to know the exact players you have and adjust values based on their value relative to the quality of related positions or if we are taking it from the other direction and we know beforehand what type of game we want to play you'd probably group up linked positions based on what type of game you are looking to play and what position will be most important in implementing that tactic or group(s) of tactics. In that sense 10,2, 5 and 15 could be very much linked if you rely heavily on a field position game.

And yes, full back was the position if any that i considered bumping a bit higher on my own rating. Care to write out your own fo the sake of interest?

And, yes, Big Ewis. I am bored. It is Friday and I refuse to work. Still there might be value (LOL) in this discussion.

Sure, Even with this babelas, I'd do this rather than work.

1. Hooker
2. Tighthead prop
3. Openside Flanker
4. Lock
5. Scrumhalf
6. Fullback
7. Fly Half
8. Inside Centre
9. Outside Centre
10. No. 8
11. Winger

The only reason why I moved fly half down a bit, is because your fly half isn't necessarily the guy kicking at goal for you. so his value would then decrease.

 

[Big Ewis]

And, yes, Big Ewis. I am bored. It is Friday and I refuse to work. Still there might be value (LOL) in this discussion.

excellent thread, I was just lol'ing at how we were just talking about it on one thread, and I leave the forum for a sec and return and I see a new thread called What position should earn the most money?
:lol:

Check out my post again.

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9
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1
4/5
13
15
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11/14

how does it feel realizing the position you used to play is really the least significant of all 15 ?? mm ??

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Sure, Even with this babelas, I'd do this rather than work.

1. Hooker
2. Tighthead prop
3. Openside Flanker
4. Lock
5. Scrumhalf
6. Fullback
7. Fly Half
8. Inside Centre
9. Outside Centre
10. No. 8
11. Winger

The only reason why I moved fly half down a bit, is because your fly half isn't necessarily the guy kicking at goal for you. so his value would then decrease.

I don't mean this rudely but one can see you are a Bulls fan having lived through an age (a very sucessful one I have to admit) of Morne Steyn being carried by FdP and a bullish Bulls bully pack LOL!

excellent thread, I was just lol'ing at how we were just talking about it on one thread, and I leave the forum for a sec and return and I see a new thread called What position should earn the most money?
:lol:
Check out my post again.

how does it feel realizing the position you used to play is really the least significant of all 15 ?? mm ??

Indeed this thread has potential. I suppose everything has potential. For either good or evil. But I am getting distracted now.

Hw does it feel realizing a winger (which i played, yes) is the least important/influential. I can't truly remember I realized this so long ago. I enjoyed playing wing though. The girls in school years had a skewed impression since I was the one scoring the most (;P) and had a lot of time doing pretty much nothing and being on the side of the field.. closest to the erm, spectators.

I suppose that continues beyond school though; I mean look at the IRB player of the year winners; 2 winners, I mean wingers and not a single prop LOL!!!

I think it depends what your intentions are or were... or are.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Having a quality winger at the top level is more important than having a quality centre or flanker. Case in point should be the last two rounds of the Rugby Championship, where Australia were fielding four centres (All of whom very decent players), and didn't look like they could finish a bag of crisps. I understand ranking them lower, but there's a reason they're always top try scorers: Because they know how to score tries, and that's harder than you'd think.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Having a quality winger at the top level is more important than having a quality centre or flanker. Case in point should be the last two rounds of the Rugby Championship, where Australia were fielding four centres (All of whom very decent players), and didn't look like they could finish a bag of crisps. I understand ranking them lower, but there's a reason they're always top try scorers: Because they know how to score tries, and that's harder than you'd think.

I too wanted to rank wingers higher and you make good points especially RE Australia ATM. The thing that held me back was I felt that there are a lot of good wingers out there, certainly more wolrd class wingers than TH props and most other positions and the fact that it is not such a specialist position in that most centers and fullback can cover the position. I suppose the point you are making is are they able to do it well enough which they certainly don't, at least not at the top end like you said.

 

[Peat]

Difficult and to a certain extent I'd say "They're all even". I mean, we've got winger at the bottom; but in the defence soaked culture we've got going on, they are the guys most likely to produce a moment of genius that seals the game. 12/6/8 - big ball carriers are a vastly important thing. These are the things that see the best of them. Added to which, 12s are now increasingly being asked to be playmakers like 10 again - how can they be so much better paid? And 6 and 8 have huge roles to play in the breakdown dominance that keeps opensides near the top. 15 has to be higher; they are game breakers, playmakers and the single most important player to winning the kicking duel. But who do you downgrade in response? No one.

It is by and large better to talk about traits. Goal kickers will always be better paid as will Key Tactical Decision Makers. That right there is why 10s and French/Saffie 9s will rake in moolah, as they are both. Also rarity. I sometimes think we overrate the effect of a tighthead - I've seen so many tightheads either defanged or magically powered up by the arrival/going of a loosehead or lock - but good tightheads are hard to find, so correspondingly more valuable. How many tightheads would I pay more than, say, Kieran Read? Not many.

 

[TheSaffycen]

It all depends on the player over the position. Look at England(if they were a club) the highest paid player too me would probably be Launchbury/Brown and even Tuilagi in the past. Look at wales and it's Halfpenny/Jones. Look at New Zealand and it would be Read who we have way down the list or even Savea who can win a game on his own. I know i'm looking at intl' sides but the point remains. Too me the front row should be the highest paid by far as they do win you the game, then i would go 10 and 9, as you can win with just 10 man rugby. I would get the best possible pack then just competent backs if i don't have enough for some star names. I would much rather have a George Smith in a competent scrum, than a Habana with Doran Jones in the pack.

 

[Jaguares]

For me, ALL positions are important, if we are talking purely and exclusively in terms of the game, I think there are positions very underestimated as hooker and scrum-half, which are hard and very specific jobs. Usually the fly-halves and wingers earn much money because it's what most people see. Cute guys who kick conversions, and faster children making tries but the hard work of the forward pack is essential but it isn't appreciated by the untrained eye, usually people who never played rugby think that the forwards only are tough guys, when in reality there are positions that need very much technical.


1- Openside flanker: The most demanding position of ALL, you have to be as fast as you can, you can't weigh less than 100 kgs, you have to have a rhythm of hard work throughout ALL the game, and you are exposing your body constantly. Undoubtedly one of the most difficult positions. The openside flanker must be almost as strong as a front row and almost as fast as a winger. In addition, Australia has been able to remain one of the top 3 rugby teams in the world without a world class tighthead, but always with a world class openside flanker: George Smith, David Pocock, Phil Waugh, Michael Hooper and others.

2- Number eight: Similar skills to an openside flanker, these guys could play as Tight End on the NFL and could play as forwards on the NRL, we're talking about guys who weigh 110 kgs and have an intense pace for 80 minutes, they are the best athletes in our sport.

3- Tighthead prop: It's the most important position in the front row, specifically in the scrum, without a good tighthead you can never have a good front row, ask an Aussie about this. Also no shortage of them worldwide.

4- Fly-Half: Kicks in the modern rugby are very important, so having a guy who knows kicking properly is an advantage, if the child can also play the role of playmaker we are talking about an essential player.

5- Fullback: About fast guys on the backline, it's undoubtedly the most important position or at least the most demanding position. You have to be a very complete player to play at 15, you have to be fast, you have to know kicking, you have to have a good air game, you have to be offensive, you have to have a good defense, OMG! You need many skills to excel in this position. For example, Jonah Lomu, (one of the most famous players of the game) could never have been a fullback, just because he didn't have the skill set required for the position.

6- Scrum-Half: Often this position is despised (especially by forwards) but believe me, this position isn't easy. You have to have the pace to keep the ball throughout the game, no doubt, you must be the guy who gives the best passes on the team, you have to be able to make a pass of 20 meters with closed eyes, with one hand or with a fkg second row of 130 kgs stepping on your head. The pace of attack your team depends on you. So if you have a good day, your team has a good game. If you have a bad day, your team has a bad game. They say the "dwarf" doesn't expose his body often and he hides behind his forwards. A scrum-half receives fewer strokes than a forward, but those few hits you get are fatal. Since you almost always get a blow from a back row of 110 kg while the "dwarf" weighs only 80 kgs.

7- Second Row: These guys have a tough work, they should push on the scrums and must be agile in order to jump higher, it's a difficult position. If you're too thin, you can jump with ease but in the game you will be dominated by the other forwards.

8- Hooker: Another much despised position, people say: "The hookers are chubby midgets". This position is also complex. You have the responsibility to get the ball on the scrums and also must throw the ball in the line-outs, if you're not good at it, even my grandmother can notice it.

9- Blindside flanker: Well, being in the blindside you've got less work than the openside but still have much work and you are in all these fights, is an important position but doesn't require the speed needed as the openside.

10- Loosehead prop
11- Centres
12- Wingers

 

[TheSaffycen]

On transfer rumours we had a debate on wether Wilkinson was worth 56,000 per game wage, I think it was more than worth it for 2 reasons
- The trophies he has won them and what he brought too them in terms of leadership
- The amount of attention he got Toulon world wide, with advertisement, which I bet helped bring in other foreign players.
Now if we are talking in terms of pure ability then no, he was a great kicker and defender but what others can do probably not worth it. If compare him too the other top fly halves like Carter, Sexton(will get onto him), Trinh-duc, Barrett, Sanchez, he cant do what alot of these guys can do, but he (apart from Carter) is the most consistent. Sexton is no where near what racing are paying him, and i bet they aint sorry too lose him.

 

[gaston le gaff]

In France now you have the glory boys 10's etc but a position that is earning lots of money is a good tight head prop they are beginning to raise the price every season and you would be surprised how much some of them earn for the bigger better clubs here in France.One of the reasons why there are lots of the Pacific boys around they are well paid but do not command anywhere near the price of the good French boys, but there are not masses on top money. there's a little clue in there for you somewhere!!!!!

 

[Feicarsinn]

Inside centre.


That's where I play. People should pay me.

 

[TheSaffycen]

In England the tighthead is also the most payed player. Leicester dont say who the marquee player is because of squad harmony, but it is thought too be Dan Coles who must be minted. I would guess that Figallo is now our best paid player.

 

[psychic duck]

In England the tighthead is also the most payed player. Leicester dont say who the marquee player is because of squad harmony, but it is thought too be Dan Coles who must be minted. I would guess that Figallo is now our best paid player.

It would be absurd to have your best paid player an individual with a poor injury record, who's latest injury has been a serious neck injury which has kept him out for a year, and if he does get fit would barely play for you for the first 3 months of the season.

Having said that, you are right about tightheads though. It's not just their key role in the team, but the fact there are fewer amount of first class ones compared to positions such as wing.