What's the real difference between #12 and #13?

[valley commando]

'Subtle skliful centres like Sonny Parker'? ****ing hell. Your unrelenting idiocy has reached new heights.

Is your hobby having a pop? You obviously never watched him in his prime.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Philippe Sella, Bruce Robertson, Tana Umaga, Jason Little, Jaques Fourie, Conrad Smith, Jamie Roberts, Craig Innes, Smokin Joe Stanley, Will greenwood, Bill Osborne, Frank Bunce, Timmy Horan, Japie Mulder, Ma'a Nonu, Jerry Guscott, some were 12's other 13's but if one was a great ball carrier the other would be a master at cover defence, often it was a case of opposites attract.

 

[smartcooky]

When where have you seen this smartcooky? I've seen old programmes that refer to left and right centres, but they were from the late sixties, early seventies at the most recent. I don't recall seeing anything other than 12 playing inside centre and 13 playing outside centre (teams with letters not numbers, superstitious players and retired jerseys aside) with my own eyes having followed the game since the late 80s.

In the late sixties in England, the concept of open and blind side flankers was something of a radical concept to some! A friend of mine who played at a very good level in those days was picked to play in a regional team and asked the other flanker in the team who came from a much more illustrious club and county (possibly an England player) "open or blind" only to be told "we play left and right". IIRC his reply was "no wonder we beat you then"! But I digress!

I did say "in some cases", and although I accept that it is pretty rare these days, you did sometimes see Nonu popping up outside Conrad Smith.

I do recall seeing back in the late 1990's, Jeremy Guscott (who I regard to be among the best 12's I have ever seen) playing the most or all of game on the left (12) with Will Carling on the right (13). When the ball went left, Carling was second receiver, when it went to the right, it was Guscott


A number of the moves and tries (the first try is the first one) in this compilation show him playing on the left, outside of Carling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu7tnP2k1Aw

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Damn never realised Guscott was that fast.

 

[McTallshort]

What's the real difference between #12 and #13?

Doesnt it depend entirely on the game plan of the team, the skill sets available and even what move the backs are planning?

 

[Peat]

I did say "in some cases", and although I accept that it is pretty rare these days, you did sometimes see Nonu popping up outside Conrad Smith.

I do recall seeing back in the late 1990's, Jeremy Guscott (who I regard to be among the best 12's I have ever seen) playing the most or all of game on the left (12) with Will Carling on the right (13). When the ball went left, Carling was second receiver, when it went to the right, it was Guscott


A number of the moves and tries (the first try is the first one) in this compilation show him playing on the left, outside of Carling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu7tnP2k1Aw

Pretty sure Guscott was an outside centre who refused to wear 13 for superstitious reasons.

 

[McTallshort]

Pretty sure Guscott was an outside centre who refused to wear 13 for superstitious reasons.

That was Greenwood

 

[Peat]

That was Greenwood

I am very sure it applies to Guscott, who is described as an outside centre as just about everywhere.

 

[McTallshort]

I am very sure it applies to Guscott, who is described as an outside centre as just about everywhere.

Dunno, Greenwood I am sure, he wore 13 at the orange free state game on his first Lions tour and nearly died on the pitch.

 

[Tmartin995]

Dunno, Greenwood I am sure, he wore 13 at the orange free state game on his first Lions tour and nearly died on the pitch.

I'm pretty sure it was the other way around, he always wore 13 for superstitious reasons, but Scott Gibbs wore 13 that game and he wore 12. Greenwood said he was too star struck to ask Gibbs to swap

 

[Which Tyler]

FTR - it was Guscott and Tindall who refused to wear the 13 shirt - Bath didn't have one at that time, having retired it after a couple of players died wearing 13 (IIRC).

Greenwood was very much an IC; who only really played OC when paired with Catt - though he'd wear 13 when paired with Tindall, he'd play IC whilst Tins played OC.
Guscott was an out-and-out OC, who wore 14 for Bath and 12 for England; whilst Carling, an IC who could turn his hand to OC wore 13 whilst playing 12.

None of the above had anything to do with playing left and right; but superstition taken from club to international level.

 

[SomeOke]

Silly other nations. We South Africans know that 12 is the really big guy, and 13 is the slightly smaller but still big guy. Passing is a last resort and the cowards way out.

 

[Kempistry]

The exact skillset you chose to use at either position depends on your team. You can always bosh with a 13 or use a 12 that passes more etc. Depends on the individual player or team preference. As a player though I think you get more comfortable at one or the other. Teams don't seem to switch between the two all that often.