When is an advantage given?

[SixteenSixtySix]

I don't really understand what makes an advantage to be given. Care to clarify on this?

 

[smartcooky]

I don't really understand what makes an advantage to be given. Care to clarify on this?

An advantage is given when a team infringes, and, rather than stop the game, the referee will allow the opposing team to continue to play in case they can make good their advantage.

For example, Blue v Gold

Blue player knocks the ball on a few metres out from his own line. Gold player picks the ball up, runs past the last defender and scores a try.

If the referee had not played advantage to Gold, he would have ordered a scrum from which Gold might not have been able to score.

Also, there are two types of advantage; scrum advantage and Penalty advantage.

For scrum advantage (where a scrum would be awarded for the infringement) the referee need only see that the non-infringing team have got possession of the ball and are able to play the ball as they choose, just as if they had won a scrum at the same place, and he will call "advantage over"

For penalty advantage (where a penalty kick would be awarded for the infringement) the referee would expect the non-infringing side to gain a considerable territorial and tactical advantage before calling "advantage over". For example, if the Gold has an advantage from a Blue penalty infringement right in front of Blue's posts and 20m out from the Blue goal line, I would expect the referee to back for the penalty if Gold didn't score in the next few phases.

 

[SixteenSixtySix]

Now I know why sometimes the referee makes a decision on an infringement a bit late. And also, I don't really understand the scrum advantage. Is it like when there's a scrum and one side gets the ball to the back row and continues, but without the scrum being in play?

 

[TheRugbyRef]

Also, there are two types of advantage; scrum advantage and Penalty advantage.

Partially correct Cooky.

The two types of advantage are "tactical" or "territorial".

Tactical advantage is the ability to play the ball as you wish.
For instance, while playing advantage a team passes the ball back to their 10, who under no pressure whatsoever decides to kick down field. He was able to play the ball as he wished, under no pressure, advantage over.
Had the ball been passed back to the 10 who is then under pressure from the opposition and kicks the ball out in desperation.....he was not able to play the ball as he wished due to the pressure and so we go back for the original offence, no advantage gained.

Territorial advantage is simply a gain in territory, so generally past the gain line.

It should be noted that the advantage must be real, a simple potential to gain advantage isn't enough.

You are correct in what you say, in that the advantage can result in a scrum or a penalty.

The referee will usually expect a better advantage to accrue from a penalty advantage, than from a scrum advantage. This is based on "what would the team expect to get if you didn't play advantage?" From a scrum advantage a team could expect clean ball at the back of the scrum (maybe, depending on how the scrums have been going) so if they get the same with the advantage we are usually looking to call advantage over when they gain territory or tactical (see above) advantage.
From a penalty a team can expect a kick at goal or a line out downfield, so we would expect a team to get more from a penalty advantage than a scrum advantage. Generally scrum advantage will be over or called back fairly quickly. Penalty advantage will be allowed to go on a little longer.

It can depend though on how a team are playing. If they are getting murdered in he scrums and losing every one, then coming back for a scrum may not be good for them, so you could almost say obsession of the ball is their advantage. The referee is the sole person who decides on advantage and when it is over, so a knowledge of game play and management is a great help.

The advantage law is the best one in the book. It allows a referee to keep the game flowing and not allow a team to benefit from foul or poor play.

 

[smartcooky]

Partially correct Cooky.

The two types of advantage are "tactical" or "territorial".

Tactical advantage is the ability to play the ball as you wish.
For instance, while playing advantage a team passes the ball back to their 10, who under no pressure whatsoever decides to kick down field. He was able to play the ball as he wished, under no pressure, advantage over.
Had the ball been passed back to the 10 who is then under pressure from the opposition and kicks the ball out in desperation.....he was not able to play the ball as he wished due to the pressure and so we go back for the original offence, no advantage gained.

Territorial advantage is simply a gain in territory, so generally past the gain line.

It should be noted that the advantage must be real, a simple potential to gain advantage isn't enough.

You are correct in what you say, in that the advantage can result in a scrum or a penalty.

The referee will usually expect a better advantage to accrue from a penalty advantage, than from a scrum advantage. This is based on "what would the team expect to get if you didn't play advantage?" From a scrum advantage a team could expect clean ball at the back of the scrum (maybe, depending on how the scrums have been going) so if they get the same with the advantage we are usually looking to call advantage over when they gain territory or tactical (see above) advantage.
From a penalty a team can expect a kick at goal or a line out downfield, so we would expect a team to get more from a penalty advantage than a scrum advantage. Generally scrum advantage will be over or called back fairly quickly. Penalty advantage will be allowed to go on a little longer.

It can depend though on how a team are playing. If they are getting murdered in he scrums and losing every one, then coming back for a scrum may not be good for them, so you could almost say obsession of the ball is their advantage. The referee is the sole person who decides on advantage and when it is over, so a knowledge of game play and management is a great help.

The advantage law is the best one in the book. It allows a referee to keep the game flowing and not allow a team to benefit from foul or poor play.

You're quoting the Law book so you are technically correct.

However, I'm explaining how real referees apply the advantage in real matches, and you won't find that in the Law book. It comes from training, experience and referee guidelines.

Referees will require a team to gain longer or greater territorial advantage before calling it over when it is given for a PK infringement than than they will for a scrum infringement. Watch any game and you can see this for yourself

I doubt you will ever see a referee call "advantage over" for a PK infringement if the non-infringing side merely gains a tactical advantage without scoring, or gaining a substantial amount of territory with retention of possession.

 

[TheRugbyRef]

You're quoting the Law book so you are technically correct.

However, I'm explaining how real referees apply the advantage in real matches, and you won't find that in the Law book. It comes from training, experience and referee guidelines.

Referees will require a team to gain longer or greater territorial advantage before calling it over when it is given for a PK infringement than than they will for a scrum infringement. Watch any game and you can see this for yourself

I doubt you will ever see a referee call "advantage over" for a PK infringement if the non-infringing side merely gains a tactical advantage without scoring, or gaining a substantial amount of territory with retention of possession.

You seem to have missed my paragraph (below), which basically says what you have above?

The referee will usually expect a better advantage to accrue from a penalty advantage, than from a scrum advantage. This is based on "what would the team expect to get if you didn't play advantage?" From a scrum advantage a team could expect clean ball at the back of the scrum (maybe, depending on how the scrums have been going) so if they get the same with the advantage we are usually looking to call advantage over when they gain territory or tactical (see above) advantage.
From a penalty a team can expect a kick at goal or a line out downfield, so we would expect a team to get more from a penalty advantage than a scrum advantage. Generally scrum advantage will be over or called back fairly quickly. Penalty advantage will be allowed to go on a little longer.

The types of advantage a referee is looking for, before he decides if advantage is over it not, are tactical and territorial.
The amount of advantage he is looking for depends on whether he is playing advantage for a scrum or penalty offence.

........and thanks for the welcome as a new poster. I hadn't realised that I wasn't a real referee! Presumably to be real you have to be retired? Maybe this forum isn't for me? I was only trying to help.

 

[smartcooky]

You seem to have missed my paragraph (below), which basically says what you have above?




The types of advantage a referee is looking for, before he decides if advantage is over it not, are tactical and territorial.
The amount of advantage he is looking for depends on whether he is playing advantage for a scrum or penalty offence.

........and thanks for the welcome as a new poster. I hadn't realised that I wasn't a real referee! Presumably to be real you have to be retired? Maybe this forum isn't for me? I was only trying to help.

No snub intended mate.

 

[Tony Manx]

You seem to have missed my paragraph (below), which basically says what you have above?




The types of advantage a referee is looking for, before he decides if advantage is over it not, are tactical and territorial.
The amount of advantage he is looking for depends on whether he is playing advantage for a scrum or penalty offence.

........and thanks for the welcome as a new poster. I hadn't realised that I wasn't a real referee! Presumably to be real you have to be retired? Maybe this forum isn't for me? I was only trying to help.

Stick with us please.....need someone to ref Smartcooky!!

 

[SixteenSixtySix]

Thanks all for the info!

das (have no idea what it means)