World XV

[donmcdazzle]

A confident cooper is in my opinion is unstoppable , he's taken the New Zealand defence apart before and he can do it again , unlike any other 10 , plus with halfpenny he won't have to worry about the kicking duties

When exactly did that happen?

 

[ABs2011]

A confident cooper is in my opinion is unstoppable , he's taken the New Zealand defence apart before and he can do it again , unlike any other 10 , plus with halfpenny he won't have to worry about the kicking duties

Are you serious? I've liked the way he has seemingly gotten himself out of the horrible slump he has been in for the last 3 years or so, but having him in a World XV? Jeepers.... I think you are dreaming....

 

[paul_crowley9]

When exactly did that happen?

Prior to the 2011 World Cup in Hong Kong ,

 

[donmcdazzle]

Prior to the 2011 World Cup in Hong Kong ,

Yeah he didn't take us apart in that game. They won through a last minute conversion (by O'Conner) from an easily avoidable try conceded (take a bow Steven Donald). If he had taken us apart you would have expected Aus to win a bit more comfortably than that, e.g. what England did to us last year.

 

[paul_crowley9]

Yeah he didn't take us apart in that game. They won through a last minute conversion (by O'Conner) from an easily avoidable try conceded (take a bow Steven Donald). If he had taken us apart you would have expected Aus to win a bit more comfortably than that, e.g. what England did to us last year.

Honestly didn't think England were anything special against ye last year , got a bit lucky with the whole nz squad being sick the week before and if I might add , it's well known New Zealanders hate cooper . Would you not agree though that cooper can be a game changer ? Carter is obviously a more rounded player , as is cruden but I think cooper has that flair that can do anything

 

[tenpm]

Carter on form is better than Cooper on form. Carter off form is miles better than Cooper off form. Conclusion: Carter is better than Cooper.

I actually don't have anything against Cooper, and I do agree that he can be good on his good days. I just find it absurd that, given the choice, you would pick him over Carter.

As for their attacking abilities - I think people forget how good Carter is on attack because he's good at all other duties. As an example, Carter has 29 tries from 97 caps (one try every 3.34 matches), Cooper has 6 tries from 46 caps (one try every 7.67 matches). Sure, some of it is down to Carter playing for the team that scores more tries, but Carter's try-to-cap ratio is more than double that of Cooper. You can't argue that's not a mark of a better attacking player.

 

[ABs2011]

Honestly didn't think England were anything special against ye last year , got a bit lucky with the whole nz squad being sick the week before and if I might add , it's well known New Zealanders hate cooper . Would you not agree though that cooper can be a game changer ? Carter is obviously a more rounded player , as is cruden but I think cooper has that flair that can do anything

Yup, and it is really embarrassing if you ask me. I can't stand it now when our crowds boo him, it's pathetic!

HOWEVER, while I agree with you that he "can" be a game changer, you could use the same argument for 20 other first fives out there. The key to being the worlds best first five (which presumably is the criteria for a world team) is being be able to perform week in week out, controlling games, winning games, being the best in the world etc etc. Copper has not managed that, in fact he has been seriously found out, consistently, against the top teams, particularly the ABs. To me he is like a poor man's Carlos Spencer...

He is simply not one of the best first fives in the world.

 

[ABs2011]

Carter on form is better than Cooper on form. Carter off form is miles better than Cooper off form. Conclusion: Carter is better than Cooper.

I actually don't have anything against Cooper, and I do agree that he can be good on his good days. I just find it absurd that, given the choice, you would pick him over Carter.

As for their attacking abilities - I think people forget how good Carter is on attack because he's good at all other duties. As an example, Carter has 29 tries from 97 caps (one try every 3.34 matches), Cooper has 6 tries from 46 caps (one try every 7.67 matches). Sure, some of it is down to Carter playing for the team that scores more tries, but Carter's try-to-cap ratio is more than double that of Cooper. You can't argue that's not a mark of a better attacking player.

Way better, it shouldn't really be a point of conversation to be honest!