England World Cup Squad

[Geordie]

I was thinking...

1. F. Baxter
2. D. Frost
3. E. Painter
4. A. Coles
5. Isiekwe / Tizzard
6. J. Kenningham
7. T. Pearson
8. Barbeary

9. G. Warr
10. F. Smith - Monitor how Shilcock goes at Tigers
11. T. Roebuck / Ibitoye
12. S. Atkinson / Ojomoh
13. W. Joseph
14. A. Radwan
15 .J. Carpenter / Nick David

Subs - TBC

 

[Geordie]

Poor Murley

Should be in the seniors...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I can almost guarantee we'll all be really disappointed by the selection and it'll be getting game time for the fringe EPS guys rather than a complete left field selection

 

[Scotty]

I can almost guarantee we'll all be really disappointed by the selection and it'll be getting game time for the fringe EPS guys rather than a complete left field selection

Given its start of a WC cycle with some aging players i want to be testing the fringe/next generation of England players, in stronger positions go left field.

And post the first one in Jan it shpuld be purely on Prem form.

 

[Geordie]

Yeah i agree he should be looking to the future.

But i dont know where this idea SB doesnt do that has come from? He did it at tigers...brought through loads of youngsters....aswell as utilizing the top class old experienced guys like Cole etc.

He had his plan for the world cup and thats done now...i think you will see evolution to this now. The seniors might not change hugely (bar the enforced ones) but i cant see why he wont put the future in the A team. But the style of players might be the eye raiser...for example he might want props that actually scrummage getting the spots etc over back rowers in the front row...so you might see Painter in there etc.

 

[Geordie]

I see manu has confirmed via Sanderson that hes not retiring from England.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I see manu has confirmed via Sanderson that hes not retiring from England.

I find that really odd. I thought he'd want to give his body a little more rest (or maybe he gets more rest being an England player than a full time sale one?).

It's the one position I really wanted us to trial some of the younger players coming through or mange just stick Max O in and stick with him (for example).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

tbf I wouldn't have expected him to retire, he loves the game too much to say "Actually no I have no interest in playing at the highest level"
I think the phrase he used was "only a lethal injection will stop me wanting to play for England"

I do think we should/will phase him out over the next season though - hopefully the extended squad for the A game gets some more 12s in the mix

 

[Geordie]

Absolutely and its the job of the young 12s to make it impossible not to pick them...

 

[Scotty]

Absolutely and its the job of the young 12s to make it impossible not to pick them...

Who though? Northmore Anyanwu SebAtkinson Ojomoh? Who else?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Tbh also worth remembring Northmore is a 13, just playing 12 for quins a bit, and quite well.

 

[Everyday EggChaser]

Bit of a stretch but Woodward at Tigers for the u20s looked good. Seems like a proper second distributer and solid carrying and tackling.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Who though? Northmore Anyanwu SebAtkinson Ojomoh? Who else?

Kelly. I've also been impressed with Cokanasiga Jr. recently, although Tigers seem to prefer him at 13.

 

[Which Tyler]

Who though? Northmore Anyanwu SebAtkinson Ojomoh? Who else?

Kelly, SAtkinson are in poll position for this 6N
Ojomoh is worth a shout, but hampered by not being 1st choice (but still getting plenty of gametime)
Hartley could be in discussion in another year's time.
Anyanwu might push himself into consideration, but he's currently chasing that pack.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Will add that personally I see Lawrence as more of a 12 than a 13 in the long run. I'd say that in recent memory all of his best moments for England have been at 12 while his worst moments have come at 13, mostly defensively.

I know it's only one moment but the memory of Joe Roberts badly gassing him on the outside in the warm-up games has really stuck with me. I know that better positioning can help but if Lawrence doesn't have the pace/agility to defend at 13 then that's a very hard problem to solve. It worries me what genuine speedsters like Ioane and Moodie could do to him in that channel.

Whereas it would only take some pretty small improvements in his handling to make him a pretty elite 12. And, of course, the rather large issue of playing there every week at club level.

 

[Geordie]

Who though? Northmore Anyanwu SebAtkinson Ojomoh? Who else?

Well pick the ones who look like they have the best attributes and are performing the best and what we want at 12. At the moment Atkinson has been playing very well...but hes not big...is that an issue? Wasnt last year when he controlled Esterhuizen. But do we want 12 to be a playmaker or a Danty style bruiser?

With Manu not retiring and Lawrence in there...i suspect thats your 12s for the seniors for a bit (i agree Manu needs phased out) ...just need to decide on the 13...

So for the A team its Kelly v Atkinson v Ojomoh v Anyanwu v Hartley.
Very differing options all at different levels of development. Kelly and Atkinson probably the furthest along the lines...Ojomoh, Anwanyu next and then Hartley quite a way back...but 6'4 and hugely talented (and at Saracens, which should help his development)

This is what the A team is for...

 

[Everyday EggChaser]

Bring back the churchill cup

 

[Which Tyler]

Is that because you're judging him by international appearances only, where he's only been capped twice at 13? (and IIRC on one of those, he was shunted to wing within about 5 minutes)

At club level, 13 is where he plays, where his strengths are best suited, and where he reads the game best.
Apart from which, he'd probably be Bath's 3rd choice for the 12 shirt, behind Redpath and Ojomoh.
As far as I can tell, he's worn 12 once for Bath, and twice for Worcester. Which isn't to say that he can't do it, just that IMO he's better with a little more width and a little more space, and that it's where he plays almost all of his rugby.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wasnt last year when he controlled Esterhuizen.

Eh, I think that's overblown tbh - he got comfortably handled by Tuilagi a few weeks later and Esterhuizen is/was in much better form than Manu

I'm still fully on the Kelly hypetrain - my only concern is he didn't even make a RWC training squad (I think?),
Is he that far back in estimations? I know he had injuries towards the end of the season but he was fit during the camps and Borthwick included other players who'd been injured (and some who were currently injured)

Farrell still being looked at as a 10/12 hybrid limits numbers as well - I feel like they never really prioritise looking beyond Manu(/Lawrence) at 12 because they're happy to slap Farrell in there if needs be, and that's likely to continue with Borthwick talking about Farrell maybe making the next RWC

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I quite like the idea of a Lawrence-Joseph combo at some point tbh