USA news & politics

[dirty harry]

I swear it's largely just a cleverly manufactured thing from the right wing media.

Look, all these people think your racists and they're trying to take away your culture/insert any right wing ******** talking point here.

Who is this 'right wing media' you speak of? I dont see a cabal online.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Who is this 'right wing media' you speak of? I dont see a cabal online.

Over here it’s everyone except the guardian in the mainstream then you have you Douglas Murray’s and the less intellignet, and interesting, Hitchens brother (is it Peter?)

In America I believe you’ve already mentioned them (Shapiro, Owens, Kirk etc etc)

 

[ncurd]

Over here it's everyone except the guardian in the mainstream then you have you Douglas Murray's and the less intellignet, and interesting, Hitchens brother (is it Peter?)

In America I believe you've already mentioned them (Shapiro, Owens, Kirk etc etc)

Utter madness we refer to Liberal Left Wing Media here....it barely exists.

 

[dirty harry]

Over here it's everyone except the guardian in the mainstream then you have you Douglas Murray's and the less intellignet, and interesting, Hitchens brother (is it Peter?)

In America I believe you've already mentioned them (Shapiro, Owens, Kirk etc etc)

I think the rags over here are more raggy than right, but I get your point.
BBC pretty dominant on the TV, and TV in general has a leaning. Look at Doctors lol, they had the most 1 dimensional evil white man you will ever see being educated by a 19 year old they them type hahahaha British movies and TV is all progressive.
I dont buy into the BBC being left, I think it tries hard for neutrality, but individuals inside the organisation all lean left and can't help themselves.

Specifically though, when it comes to US, there are a dozen or so former colleagues, and ex Fox News lowly workers, but the big personalities tied to some sort of right social media dominance are all former lefties who lost touch with the Dems. Rogan, Pool and Co would vote Dem in a heart beat if a bit of common sense returned.

Talk about turning, left wing organisations online seem to have a problem of losing their big names, TYT etc. I think this is a natural part of things. I think its also now become cool to break out and become right, like a maturing stage. Look at the recent viral Witney Cummings interview.

I genuinely think the right wing trend is what people are seeing, not the influencers on campuses destroying students etc.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But in 2015 life was good, the housing crisis was mitigated by Obama, and he even won a 2nd term after it, the economy was on the up. Infact, id make the argument things were primed for conservatives by your metric im 2012 not 2016.

The key issues were racial tensions on the rise during Obamas presidency, Sanders benefited from the economic inequality issue mostly, and gun violence was prevelant.

I'd say the trust in government was the biggest factor for Trump, Obama failed on his promises, partly his fault, partly not, and the anti establishment sentiment became too much. Trump was a free speaking no nonsense, swearing, joke cracking wrecking ball of a personality. Grab em by the pussy, hell ye, Mexicans are rapists yee haw!!!!!

He could have easily been stopped though, by not lowering into the gutter, attacking half the country, and most importantly with integrity. Every thing he said and did was twisted into a mistruth, and conservatives were there to show raw footage and context. It baffles me to this day that the media, Hollywood and Democrats still do this knowing it doesnt work, and even if it was effective its too late in the day to do anything now, he's nye on untouchable.

Again, a MAGA friend told me the night of the election last year, that Democrats are going to wish Trump won 2020 when he wins for his 2nd term, because it would have had checks and balances, instead over the 4 years Trump acquired such a base he now he is nearly an despot. Bugger me was he right.

EDIT: just to clarify, this was regards to Trp initially, I think 2024 you are 100% correct, the economy was the issue.

What matters in elections isn't whether things are good or not but the perception of if they are. Tail end of Obama's ten and end of Bidens term, right wing media succeeded in convincing people that black is white and, despite actual evidence showing the contrary, that the economy was terrible.

They convinced people the USA was a laughing stock in the world stage and abandoned by all allies under Obama and Biden, but was in awe and respect of the USA under Bush and Trump.

The real reason Trump won wasn't because of left wing name calling, it was because of the success of right wing name calling and right wing propaganda.

A prime example is trans issues. It's portrayed as a left wing problem but it's actually the right wing constantly banging on about it.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I dont buy into the BBC being left, I think it tries hard for neutrality, but individuals inside the organisation all lean left and can't help themselves.

The BBC had predominantly been run by Tory supporters with various top executive positions and news media being filled with right wingers. Some are more blatant than others, eg Andrew Neil in his role as a BBC political analyst was a pretty straight shooter and didn't take nonsense from either side. Quite different to his role outside the BBC.

Where the BBC was more left wing was in its entertainment, eg drama and comedy. That's because these industries overwhelmingly attract left wing people and you'd have to be extremely biased against them if you wanted to try to achieve an even split.

How could the BBC moderate things like comedy panel shows if the comedians are left wing? Mass censorship of views that aren't perfectly balanced? The fact is the right wing simply don't produce as many comedians.

 

[ncurd]

The BBC had predominantly been run by Tory supporters with various top executive positions and news media being filled with right wingers. Some are more blatant than others, eg Andrew Neil in his role as a BBC political analyst was a pretty straight shooter and didn't take nonsense from either side. Quite different to his role outside the BBC.

Where the BBC was more left wing was in its entertainment, eg drama and comedy. That's because these industries overwhelmingly attract left wing people and you'd have to be extremely biased against them if you wanted to try to achieve an even split.

How could the BBC moderate things like comedy panel shows if the comedians are left wing? Mass censorship of views that aren't perfectly balanced? The fact is the right wing simply don't produce as many comedians.

I feel it pertinent to bring this out again.

 

[Welsh Exile]

There’s a new one of those jubilee videos. This time it’s 20 republicans AND democrats against some dude that I’m assuming says both are rubbish. Must be @dirty harry

 

[AlRums]

 

[dirty harry]

What matters in elections isn't whether things are good or not but the perception of if they are. Tail end of Obama's ten and end of Bidens term, right wing media succeeded in convincing people that black is white and, despite actual evidence showing the contrary, that the economy was terrible.

They convinced people the USA was a laughing stock in the world stage and abandoned by all allies under Obama and Biden, but was in awe and respect of the USA under Bush and Trump.

The real reason Trump won wasn't because of left wing name calling, it was because of the success of right wing name calling and right wing propaganda.

A prime example is trans issues. It's portrayed as a left wing problem but it's actually the right wing constantly banging on about it.

That would make sense, except notions was the economy doing well and recovering nicely, it wasnt a top issue in the primaries.

Infact, Sanders was the big beneficiary of economic inequality, he played that really well, and was leading Clinton in many states. After all, Trump nor Clinton could claim to be the bastion of the working man on that cause lol.

Trumps entire MO was draining the swamp, building a wall, strengthening the US position on the world stage and bringing manufacturing back. Infact he was incredibly quiet on the economy, so im not sure who the right wing sources who 'convinced people black was white' were. Happy to see some evidence though.

Again, noone was making the claim Obama was being laughed at, he was a global darling, and literally won the nobel peice prize mid bomb run hahaha

With regards to Bidens term, well the Afghan pull out, the delay in reopening the country, his cognitive issues and the printing money really all did create a scenario where the USA was being laughed at a bit. I dont think laughing stock was fair, but the rights selling point of embarrassment was obviously going to be used, because there were literal compilation videos of Biden falling over, getting lost on stage and mumbling about kids playing with his hariy legs for all to see. These videos arent propoganda, theyre evidence.

The trans issue is a key one for the right, of course they are going to exploit high ranking Democrats who don't know what a woman is, which serious politician wouldnt lol?

When a Dem promoted Supreme court nominee replies to the question with 'im not a biologist' they are going to be exploted.

You are right, trans issues are tiny, but Democrats spend too much time apologising for their terminology, refusing to answer questions, and boxing themselves into corners, these are easy wins for Republicans who hold a stance about trans people in sports and stick to it. I dont think that these issues are specifically the point, but people watching one politician giving his thoughts, sticking by his principles and backing that up, and then seeing Dems fumble over the question, not answer, and then apologise to the tiny community for not giving the answer quite how they wanted, well it is perceived as strong vs weak.

And this is where Republicans win I think, they hold their line, they give actual views and they set out their stalls, whereas Democrats are spending all their time bending the knee to every societal cause that pops up.

Theor presidential nominees are talking race issues, Clinton pretending she carried hot sauce every where she went to black podcasts, Biden telling voters theyre not black if they dont vote for him, and Kamala changing her ethnicity and accent depending on the race of who shes talking to.

BLM riot, Democrats literally take the knee in African garb.

ICE detains illegal immigrants (at a lower rate that they did so a decade ago) and theyre causing fights in car parks.

Groups of them are now doing gaming intro style videos in a tik tok trend

The optics are being used by the Republicans, who man for man are worse than their Dem counterparts, but at least they act like adults (on the most part).

 

[dirty harry]

The BBC had predominantly been run by Tory supporters with various top executive positions and news media being filled with right wingers. Some are more blatant than others, eg Andrew Neil in his role as a BBC political analyst was a pretty straight shooter and didn't take nonsense from either side. Quite different to his role outside the BBC.

Where the BBC was more left wing was in its entertainment, eg drama and comedy. That's because these industries overwhelmingly attract left wing people and you'd have to be extremely biased against them if you wanted to try to achieve an even split.

How could the BBC moderate things like comedy panel shows if the comedians are left wing? Mass censorship of views that aren't perfectly balanced? The fact is the right wing simply don't produce as many comedians.

On the BBC.

The left gave up comedy with free speech and few years ago.

 

[ncurd]

I feel it pertinent to bring this out again.

Should add to this (was at cinema so didnt finish thought) Geoff Norcott is probably the only right wing comedian I think does a good job (the dude who plays Jonathan Pie straddles there sometimes). Sure they **** me off sometimes but they ain't aiming at my wheelhouse.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Should add to this (was at cinema so didnt finish thought) Geoff Norcott is probably the only right wing comedian I think does a good job (the dude who plays Jonathan Pie straddles there sometimes). Sure they **** me off sometimes but they ain't aiming at my wheelhouse.

Konstantin Kisin and Dave Smith were/are comedians………….apparently.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

On the BBC.

The left gave up comedy with free speech and few years ago.

Yes the BBC, it's just ridiculous those who claim the BBC is some and lefty when the main decision makers have been right wing supporters for quite a few years now.

The dominance of left wing comedians still would beg to differ. As for free speech, the right wing aren't the great defenders of free speech they claim to be at all, you'll find plenty of those on the right demanding things they disagree with be blocked, banned or cancelled.

 

[dirty harry]

Yes the BBC, it's just ridiculous those who claim the BBC is some and lefty when the main decision makers have been right wing supporters for quite a few years now.

The dominance of left wing comedians still would beg to differ. As for free speech, the right wing aren't the great defenders of free speech they claim to be at all, you'll find plenty of those on the right demanding things they disagree with be blocked, banned or cancelled.

I think the BBC does about as good a job as an organisation that big can, theres no such thing as perfect, but it really does put the American versions to shame.

Is left wing 'dominating' comedy? I think the anti establishment liberal comedians have all been left in the cold, theres a group of friends who all do the same TV panel shows, and Nish Kumar and Kate Smurthwaite lol.

When you look at the real heavy weights, Gervais, Burr, Chappelle, and Kevin Hart have all been called right wing in recent years laughably. And its the self defeating nature of the left, they embraced the mob and the supposed cancel culture but it chased everyone fun away. It turned a Bernie loving lefty luvvy like Joe Rogan into a Trump supporter, and id be willing to bet old Carlin himself would be attacked as some sort of phobic, and made politically homeless.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

That would make sense, except notions was the economy doing well and recovering nicely, it wasnt a top issue in the primaries.

Infact, Sanders was the big beneficiary of economic inequality, he played that really well, and was leading Clinton in many states. After all, Trump nor Clinton could claim to be the bastion of the working man on that cause lol.

Trumps entire MO was draining the swamp, building a wall, strengthening the US position on the world stage and bringing manufacturing back. Infact he was incredibly quiet on the economy, so im not sure who the right wing sources who 'convinced people black was white' were. Happy to see some evidence though.

Again, noone was making the claim Obama was being laughed at, he was a global darling, and literally won the nobel peice prize mid bomb run hahaha

With regards to Bidens term, well the Afghan pull out, the delay in reopening the country, his cognitive issues and the printing money really all did create a scenario where the USA was being laughed at a bit. I dont think laughing stock was fair, but the rights selling point of embarrassment was obviously going to be used, because there were literal compilation videos of Biden falling over, getting lost on stage and mumbling about kids playing with his hariy legs for all to see. These videos arent propoganda, theyre evidence.

The trans issue is a key one for the right, of course they are going to exploit high ranking Democrats who don't know what a woman is, which serious politician wouldnt lol?

When a Dem promoted Supreme court nominee replies to the question with 'im not a biologist' they are going to be exploted.

You are right, trans issues are tiny, but Democrats spend too much time apologising for their terminology, refusing to answer questions, and boxing themselves into corners, these are easy wins for Republicans who hold a stance about trans people in sports and stick to it. I dont think that these issues are specifically the point, but people watching one politician giving his thoughts, sticking by his principles and backing that up, and then seeing Dems fumble over the question, not answer, and then apologise to the tiny community for not giving the answer quite how they wanted, well it is perceived as strong vs weak.

And this is where Republicans win I think, they hold their line, they give actual views and they set out their stalls, whereas Democrats are spending all their time bending the knee to every societal cause that pops up.

Theor presidential nominees are talking race issues, Clinton pretending she carried hot sauce every where she went to black podcasts, Biden telling voters theyre not black if they dont vote for him, and Kamala changing her ethnicity and accent depending on the race of who shes talking to.

BLM riot, Democrats literally take the knee in African garb.

ICE detains illegal immigrants (at a lower rate that they did so a decade ago) and theyre causing fights in car parks.

Groups of them are now doing gaming intro style videos in a tik tok trend

The optics are being used by the Republicans, who man for man are worse than their Dem counterparts, but at least they act like adults (on the most part).

No the top issue is immigration, and as you pointed out, Obama was deporting record numbers and yet still the right wing presented that as a failure. When the high number of deporton numbers was mentioned, it was twisted as messaging meaning too many were coming. Record numbers of detentions were a sign of too many coming, fewer detentions were a sign of the system failing. You said the issue was too much left wing lying lead to Trump but it wasn't, too much successful right wing lying is what led to Trump. Remember when the likes of Fox news were able to convince people that Obama wearing a tan suit and having mustard in a hot dog were outrageous, or his about the successful "war on Christmas" propaganda they repeated every year, only to then reverse the second Trump came into office? They managed to convince people you couldn't say "merry Christmas" despite Obama saying it repeatedly. How do you fight against it when people believe such stupid and easily, demonstrably false nonsense?

With the Afghan withdrawal, we already covered his this was agreed during the Trump administration and well under way by the time Biden entered office. Again, perception more than fact. When Trump was overseeing it, it was a great thing the USA finally withdrawing from that mess. The second Biden entered office, even before he had time to do anything, it was instantly portrayed as a massive failure.

You mention Bidens cognitive decline but then Trumps decline was and still is glossed over. Things like making **** up in the spot, not knowing which state he was in, getting basic facts wrong, serial lying, slurring his words, being unable to complete sentences, rambling off at weird tangents. These were all being displayed by Trump before he took office but it was glossed over.

The funny thing is, the right love the "unable to define a woman" thing, until it's turned on them and they realise they can't either, with responses usually boiling down to not caring about the exceptions that don't fit their decisions definition. The right are the ones who kept bringing trans up because they are the ones who offered a simple, but not correct answer. Same as with immigration, they keep hammering away at things where they act like the answer is simple and "common sense". Their success is not in being correct, but in convincing people that the simple answer is common sense and common sense is correct. It's the inverse snobbery of "what do the experts know?" The appeal to the same crowd as frequent Spoons in this country who are convinced they know it all and any answer too complex must be down to a lack of common sense, not their own lack of understanding.

Sorry but you cannot possibly claim Republicans are acting like adults, not one bit. Look at all the petty squabbling they have been involved in, the name calling, the insults, the attempts to shut down the government every 4 months when there was a Democrat president...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think the BBC does about as good a job as an organisation that big can, theres no such thing as perfect, but it really does put the American versions to shame.

Is left wing 'dominating' comedy? I think the anti establishment liberal comedians have all been left in the cold, theres a group of friends who all do the same TV panel shows, and Nish Kumar and Kate Smurthwaite lol.

When you look at the real heavy weights, Gervais, Burr, Chappelle, and Kevin Hart have all been called right wing in recent years laughably. And its the self defeating nature of the left, they embraced the mob and the supposed cancel culture but it chased everyone fun away. It turned a Bernie loving lefty luvvy like Joe Rogan into a Trump supporter, and id be willing to bet old Carlin himself would be attacked as some sort of phobic, and made politically homeless.

It does, which is why I say the accusations it is left wing and run by woke lefties fall into the "everything I don't like is woke" category. You have mentioned about how quickly the left accuse others of racism etc but not his the right just as readily throw around claims of things being "woke". When you have the can't define a woman thing, on the right you have the can't define what woke is.

Yes there is a far left mob that chase out the impure, I don't think you'll find many on the left who say internal squabbles aren't an issue. It's been a running joke for decades that the left constantly splinters and it's a huge reason why the right takes power so often.

You'll find the core thing at the centre of all right wing populist movements right now is immigration. It dominates everything. The argument that there are too many foreigners and they are too blame for everything is the oldest appeal to fear in the book and has been used by populists since the dawn of time. They may pad it out a bit with other bits a pieces but you will find that right at the core every single time. Why? Because it works every single time there is economic hardship. It's no genius plan, it's no fault if the left, it's no issue other than one side appealing to and playing in some of the most base level fears humans hold and the others trying to fight against that nature. It really is as simple as that.

 

[dirty harry]

No the top issue is immigration, and as you pointed out, Obama was deporting record numbers and yet still the right wing presented that as a failure. When the high number of deporton numbers was mentioned, it was twisted as messaging meaning too many were coming. Record numbers of detentions were a sign of too many coming, fewer detentions were a sign of the system failing. You said the issue was too much left wing lying lead to Trump but it wasn't, too much successful right wing lying is what led to Trump. Remember when the likes of Fox news were able to convince people that Obama wearing a tan suit and having mustard in a hot dog were outrageous, or his about the successful "war on Christmas" propaganda they repeated every year, only to then reverse the second Trump came into office? They managed to convince people you couldn't say "merry Christmas" despite Obama saying it repeatedly. How do you fight against it when people believe such stupid and easily, demonstrably false nonsense?

With the Afghan withdrawal, we already covered his this was agreed during the Trump administration and well under way by the time Biden entered office. Again, perception more than fact. When Trump was overseeing it, it was a great thing the USA finally withdrawing from that mess. The second Biden entered office, even before he had time to do anything, it was instantly portrayed as a massive failure.

You mention Bidens cognitive decline but then Trumps decline was and still is glossed over. Things like making **** up in the spot, not knowing which state he was in, getting basic facts wrong, serial lying, slurring his words, being unable to complete sentences, rambling off at weird tangents. These were all being displayed by Trump before he took office but it was glossed over.

The funny thing is, the right love the "unable to define a woman" thing, until it's turned on them and they realise they can't either, with responses usually boiling down to not caring about the exceptions that don't fit their decisions definition. The right are the ones who kept bringing trans up because they are the ones who offered a simple, but not correct answer. Same as with immigration, they keep hammering away at things where they act like the answer is simple and "common sense". Their success is not in being correct, but in convincing people that the simple answer is common sense and common sense is correct. It's the inverse snobbery of "what do the experts know?" The appeal to the same crowd as frequent Spoons in this country who are convinced they know it all and any answer too complex must be down to a lack of common sense, not their own lack of understanding.

Sorry but you cannot possibly claim Republicans are acting like adults, not one bit. Look at all the petty squabbling they have been involved in, the name calling, the insults, the attempts to shut down the government every 4 months when there was a Democrat president...

Those Obama examples are perfect examples of what im saying though, Obama was incredibly popular, and left office still incredibly popular, the right wing push to criticise him stupidly didnt work, the same way the Democrats doing it to Trump isnt working.

The Afghan withdrawal is hilarious, the Biden presidency, determining that Trump was to blame, but then absolutely confirms the timing of the withdrawal was a Biden decision based off his generals recommendations lol. The timing of the withdrawal was the issue hahaha. Infact didnt PBS put out a statement from the Biden administration saying they learned to evacuate people earlier next time hahahah come on dude, you must have read this stuff! But let's say Trump was fully to blame, he set the withdrawal in motion, and he somehow made the generals convince Biden to arm the Taliban, at least, at least get key personelle out of the country safely. It all adds to the incompetency perception worldwide of Biden.

And while there, your not co.paring Biden and Trump surely? Every tabloid journo and host have released books about them uncovering his cognitive decline now, despite running interference on his behalf, Trump is old, but **** me if theres one thing you can compliment him on is that he's getting through a hell of a lot of work, its mostly vitriolic, but he's going through 6 or 7 key battles globally and domestically in one go, does the guy even sleep?!

Im not sure what right your talking about, they are 100% unified about the women issue, infact I wouldnt be surprised if they all had a memo on terminology. But her, happy to see some evidence of it.

Your conflating politicking with behaviours, infact the only real petty behaviour from a Republican i can remember was Mullin a few years ago, and that made him look strong lol. I can't remember who it was, but was tweeting insults at him and told him he knew where to find him, so Mullins told him to get up and get ready hahahaha. Americans love that stuff. What they dont love is watching fake Indian representitive do live streams pretending they drink beer and scratch their nuts just like them, or the booing and refusal to clap for a 13 year old cancer suffering child. Christ I keep forgetting how many of these incidents there are hahaha

Im not defending Republicans BTW, but the optics on their behaviour as opposed to Democrats behaviours is night and day it seems.

 

[dirty harry]

It does, which is why I say the accusations it is left wing and run by woke lefties fall into the "everything I don't like is woke" category. You have mentioned about how quickly the left accuse others of racism etc but not his the right just as readily throw around claims of things being "woke". When you have the can't define a woman thing, on the right you have the can't define what woke is.

Yes there is a far left mob that chase out the impure, I don't think you'll find many on the left who say internal squabbles aren't an issue. It's been a running joke for decades that the left constantly splinters and it's a huge reason why the right takes power so often.

You'll find the core thing at the centre of all right wing populist movements right now is immigration. It dominates everything. The argument that there are too many foreigners and they are too blame for everything is the oldest appeal to fear in the book and has been used by populists since the dawn of time. They may pad it out a bit with other bits a pieces but you will find that right at the core every single time. Why? Because it works every single time there is economic hardship. It's no genius plan, it's no fault if the left, it's no issue other than one side appealing to and playing in some of the most base level fears humans hold and the others trying to fight against that nature. It really is as simple as that.

I mean it is a failing of the left, one ive never understood. The failure to have honest conversations about immigration would negate the rights ability to use it. But they won't for fear of the mob, both mobs.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I mean it is a failing of the left, one ive never understood. The failure to have honest conversations about immigration would negate the rights ability to use it. But they won't for fear of the mob, both mobs.

There had been a failure to have honest conversations about it but that implies the right are, they aren't. In fact the right lie constantly about immigration and are far further from any honest conversation on it than the left are...

People simply don't care about facts, there isn't an honest conversation to be had with a populist who plays on people's fears. Numerous studies show people react to an emotional fear response far far more strongly than they do to a reasoned attempt to disprove that fear. There's the bullshit asymmetry principle, it takes vastly more effort to convince people something is bullshit than to convince them the bullshit is true. Look at Stockport and how rapidly completely unsubstituted lies led to violence. You think the Stockport lot for one second wouldn't have done what they did if someone tried to calmly reason with them? No chance. People who tap into the immigration fears are tapping into that response, and there is next to no way a reasoned response counters that. The only thing that counters it is people already feeling secure enough for the claims to not trigger a fear response. If people are already insecure (as it's definitely the case now due to financial hardship and other things), once that fear response is triggered, any attempt to reason is gone until that fear response subsides.