That does sort of work
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WRU confirm they want to reduce to two pro teams
- Thread starter Tooting Carmen
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Rugby probably has loads of rules that wouldn’t survive a court case.
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BBC Sport predicting all these changes will end up in court anyway.
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Hope not.
They need to decide on one ground for each and make it a fortress.
There should be no club bias and the teams should be completely separate entities from any current club.
Ideally, CAP and Parc y Scarlets should be the 2 grounds
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Yes, the unions should work together with clubs in URC and Prem to coordinate international release dates.
Also, if the season was blocked properly then there would be less conflict.
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Yes, but this is because no EQP plays in a UK team not in the English system at the moment.
If that changes, then would be interesting to see.
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Different rules for those countries regarding employment rights
Fair point
Also love how the name of the document is “the future of elite rugby in wales” but not giving a **** about the in between. Like some cities just want good not great rugby to watch.
I go to fourth tier hockey games that get 6,000 people. Give the people what they want.
I go to fourth tier hockey games that get 6,000 people. Give the people what they want.
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Or arguably talent.
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Well something had to be done. Whether this is the solution is the question. It certainly seems to be heading in the right direction financially, but if it loses the fans then that will quickly change.
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What I don’t want to see, but suspect we may is Cardiff Something or Others being a close proxy for the national team like Leinster. Scotland’s bad enough with the majority coming from Glasgow and Edinburgh and that’s the best case scenario. It’s dull, dull, dull.
I’m not sure the Welsh mindset is, or ever has been, geared up to the regions. It seems much more parochial and if the money was there (granted, it’s not), I’m certain they’d much rather see Neath kicking lumps out of Pontypool.
At the risk of old fartism, I genuinely hate so much of what professionalism has done to the game. Bigger, faster, more skilful, undoubtedly, but the soul has gone. Tradition too - and most who’d say “so what you old git” in the same breath will defend the 6N to the death as something precious. But that’s not sacrosanct, we’ve seen Italy added and changes in calendar - one day it will change more fundamentally or even go, it’s just a matter of when….enjoy it while you can. *sheds tear for sport he loves*.
I’m not sure the Welsh mindset is, or ever has been, geared up to the regions. It seems much more parochial and if the money was there (granted, it’s not), I’m certain they’d much rather see Neath kicking lumps out of Pontypool.
At the risk of old fartism, I genuinely hate so much of what professionalism has done to the game. Bigger, faster, more skilful, undoubtedly, but the soul has gone. Tradition too - and most who’d say “so what you old git” in the same breath will defend the 6N to the death as something precious. But that’s not sacrosanct, we’ve seen Italy added and changes in calendar - one day it will change more fundamentally or even go, it’s just a matter of when….enjoy it while you can. *sheds tear for sport he loves*.
I think there's a lot of truth there, but there is scope with this format to return some of that history by elevating the SRC to a higher standard.
Fans who want to support their local side can do just that, then the two regions can sit above as the sides competing in cross border competitions.
If the two regions are succesfull I'm convinced they can draw good crowds. Rewind to 2009 when Cardiff reached the semi-final of the HC and they drew a crowd of 45,000!
Remember Scarlets playing Tigers at the city Ground in Nottingham with at least 20k travelling support. People want to see rugby in Wales
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Ok, this is what @Welsh Exile has been waiting for, my unhinged rant...
For me its very simple, all the ideas, all the noises, and all the terminology are coming from old out of touch people who wouldnt know positive risk or progression if it made a tik tok and tagged them.
The idea that consolidation of recourses is going to give long term positive results going forward is absolutely idiotic, if you dont change the way the game is run, and how money is made.
Regionalisation proved a disaster, especially for the fans, those who did stay loyal left quickly, the attempt to skip a generation and focus on the kiddies was an idiotic idea, because the kiddies couldn't travel to games alone ffs.
When we dropped to 5, all the predictions were that within 5 years it would be 4, then 3 after 10, and 2 teams after 15 before just a club and national team Wales in 20 years...
Well **** me isnt that proving accurate.
So, let's talk why this won't work, Cardiff will 100% be region east, anything else is the nail in the coffin, however, what is the point of considering Cardiff as the biggest fanbase, when they have allowed Rugby at every level to die. Schools dont play it, clubs cant get junior teams, and the only universities, or further education that do arent run properly, or participated by Welsh players. Cardiff is not a rugby city, its very much football, everywhere! The WRU has allowed this to happen, and put nothing in place to counter demographic change, incentivise schools, or assist club junior sections.
So when East are announced, as Cardiff. It the CAP is home, we lose 95% of dragons and valleys support, and 10% Cardiff support. Of they travel with no home, we lose 75% of Dragons and valleys support, and 50% of Cardiff. Either way, your going to see a 10% drop in support for East, than Cardiff has now.
Same story for West.
Yes the squads will merge, both teams will become more competitive, and the budgets will get bigger... for a few years. Then as the game grows elsewhere, it stagnates in Wales, because there's no foundation for talent, or numbers or hunger for the game or support for the 2 teams. Star players will leave for bigger salaries, the reduced opportunities for professional exposure will slow talent development, younger talent will find pathways outside of Wales, so our very best players, and youngest talent will leave. We will start to take risks of foreign concerts rejected elsewhere, they will lower the quality of the product, which effects performances and support, and around and around we go.
Except this time the WRU has total control over everything, and we know how well they manage finances, and are the pinnacle of professionalism hahahahah
Then look at this **** chirping on about national teams, women's and men's, the Titanic is sinking and hes reaching for his equality spoon trying to shuffle water off deck.
Luckily though, hes hired an intern to come up with the genius plan to, market star players to fans instead of the game. Lets forget that they ruined the fun, and virtually eradicated tackling, the USP of rugby has been hollowed out chewed up, spat into a dish and presented to a fanbase who has an unlimited supply of high end, high octane top quality sport available to them. Wales is seeing the top growing sports as Padal, Pickleball and rugby league lol (who had an incredible 2024, and if they are smart can really kick on in 2025 and push to take unions crown soon enough).
Can someone tell this ******, that to market star players as an attraction, someone has to give a **** about what theyre doing in the sport first. If the new Jonah Lomu appeared tomorrow in Pontypridd, and became an absolutely wrecking ball of a celebrity, and won world player of the year, he would have options that pay far better than 250k a year at generic team East Wales reds. By 19 he'd outgrow Welsh rugby, and be gone to bigger and better. To follow the American system of marketing, for rugby union is stupid.
What Welsh rugby needs is new blood, fresh ideas, bit most importantly the understanding that the culture needs to be built back first, before we worry about keeping up with the joneses. Clubs need to become integral parts of the communities, have strong links to schools, the 4 regions can be maintained if they streamline, with a focus on match day experience, and progressive financial ideas. Ive been a season ticket holder at Cardiff rugby for god knows too many years, and the experience on match day is trash, there is no traveling support option for away games, season ticket holders are treated badly, the music and 'entertainment' has remained the same since pre regional days! When you compile that with an 80% loss rate, and lack of passion from all involved, I dont blame the regulars who have left us over the years.
I hate that there are only away fans to socialise with maybe 3 times per season, and most of all, very few of the crowd give a **** about watching the Lions, or Benetton! We want local rivalries, Bath, Bristol, Gloucester, Edinburgh and Munster are ok, but again no travelling support.
I think the game is on life support, and I dont think those with the power to, are capable of making positive change, all they care about is the top end and profit, and they lack the bigger picture.
For me its very simple, all the ideas, all the noises, and all the terminology are coming from old out of touch people who wouldnt know positive risk or progression if it made a tik tok and tagged them.
The idea that consolidation of recourses is going to give long term positive results going forward is absolutely idiotic, if you dont change the way the game is run, and how money is made.
Regionalisation proved a disaster, especially for the fans, those who did stay loyal left quickly, the attempt to skip a generation and focus on the kiddies was an idiotic idea, because the kiddies couldn't travel to games alone ffs.
When we dropped to 5, all the predictions were that within 5 years it would be 4, then 3 after 10, and 2 teams after 15 before just a club and national team Wales in 20 years...
Well **** me isnt that proving accurate.
So, let's talk why this won't work, Cardiff will 100% be region east, anything else is the nail in the coffin, however, what is the point of considering Cardiff as the biggest fanbase, when they have allowed Rugby at every level to die. Schools dont play it, clubs cant get junior teams, and the only universities, or further education that do arent run properly, or participated by Welsh players. Cardiff is not a rugby city, its very much football, everywhere! The WRU has allowed this to happen, and put nothing in place to counter demographic change, incentivise schools, or assist club junior sections.
So when East are announced, as Cardiff. It the CAP is home, we lose 95% of dragons and valleys support, and 10% Cardiff support. Of they travel with no home, we lose 75% of Dragons and valleys support, and 50% of Cardiff. Either way, your going to see a 10% drop in support for East, than Cardiff has now.
Same story for West.
Yes the squads will merge, both teams will become more competitive, and the budgets will get bigger... for a few years. Then as the game grows elsewhere, it stagnates in Wales, because there's no foundation for talent, or numbers or hunger for the game or support for the 2 teams. Star players will leave for bigger salaries, the reduced opportunities for professional exposure will slow talent development, younger talent will find pathways outside of Wales, so our very best players, and youngest talent will leave. We will start to take risks of foreign concerts rejected elsewhere, they will lower the quality of the product, which effects performances and support, and around and around we go.
Except this time the WRU has total control over everything, and we know how well they manage finances, and are the pinnacle of professionalism hahahahah
Then look at this **** chirping on about national teams, women's and men's, the Titanic is sinking and hes reaching for his equality spoon trying to shuffle water off deck.
Luckily though, hes hired an intern to come up with the genius plan to, market star players to fans instead of the game. Lets forget that they ruined the fun, and virtually eradicated tackling, the USP of rugby has been hollowed out chewed up, spat into a dish and presented to a fanbase who has an unlimited supply of high end, high octane top quality sport available to them. Wales is seeing the top growing sports as Padal, Pickleball and rugby league lol (who had an incredible 2024, and if they are smart can really kick on in 2025 and push to take unions crown soon enough).
Can someone tell this ******, that to market star players as an attraction, someone has to give a **** about what theyre doing in the sport first. If the new Jonah Lomu appeared tomorrow in Pontypridd, and became an absolutely wrecking ball of a celebrity, and won world player of the year, he would have options that pay far better than 250k a year at generic team East Wales reds. By 19 he'd outgrow Welsh rugby, and be gone to bigger and better. To follow the American system of marketing, for rugby union is stupid.
What Welsh rugby needs is new blood, fresh ideas, bit most importantly the understanding that the culture needs to be built back first, before we worry about keeping up with the joneses. Clubs need to become integral parts of the communities, have strong links to schools, the 4 regions can be maintained if they streamline, with a focus on match day experience, and progressive financial ideas. Ive been a season ticket holder at Cardiff rugby for god knows too many years, and the experience on match day is trash, there is no traveling support option for away games, season ticket holders are treated badly, the music and 'entertainment' has remained the same since pre regional days! When you compile that with an 80% loss rate, and lack of passion from all involved, I dont blame the regulars who have left us over the years.
I hate that there are only away fans to socialise with maybe 3 times per season, and most of all, very few of the crowd give a **** about watching the Lions, or Benetton! We want local rivalries, Bath, Bristol, Gloucester, Edinburgh and Munster are ok, but again no travelling support.
I think the game is on life support, and I dont think those with the power to, are capable of making positive change, all they care about is the top end and profit, and they lack the bigger picture.
No idea what the answer is but the current structure isn't it. The problem they have is the games died to such an extent the plans will take years to impact.
As usual with Welsh rugby you have 1001 ideas. Nobody can agree on the solution and it's all wrapped up in self-interest and protecting your own nest.
Bringing kids through and building up grass roots is a long term project.
Is it too late, I guess we will find out.
As usual with Welsh rugby you have 1001 ideas. Nobody can agree on the solution and it's all wrapped up in self-interest and protecting your own nest.
Bringing kids through and building up grass roots is a long term project.
Is it too late, I guess we will find out.
I do agree with lots of that, but on the one hand you say the regions proved to be a disaster for the fans (which it was), but you want to keep them anyway?
Why not accept that it didn't work and look for an alternative solution which I think this proposal has the potential of offering if done well. Super Rugbi Cymru has the potential to offer that local parochial rivalry that many fans say they want. I'd want to see Llanelli, Ponty and Neath involved to ensure the old rugby heartlands are all represented, but the point still stands.
However there isn't the money to fund 10-12 sides and have them compete with provinces from Ireland, and clubs from England and France, so that's where the 2 regions come in.
In an ideal world, we'd have 4 regions + a better funded SRC + a better funded academy system; but that's just improssible. But 2 regions + well funded SRC + world class academy should be achievable. And if done well, it won't mean a reduction in players, but an increase with SRC and the academy supplying more professional quality players to the regions than the current pipeline does.
It's literally the system I've advocated for on these boards for 10+ years as it was evident to me back then that the little slice of south wales known as the M4 corridor isn't capable of sustaining 4 sides at the level required to compete with the best. Fans either haven't brought into regional rugby, and the abject failure have prevented new fana from being enticed in to watch them. It's a shame that the last 22 years has to be scrapped, but that's not a reason to continue on the same doomed path, afterall the definition of insantiy is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results!
Maybe in the future when things have improved, the SRC is drawing bigger crowds with fans enjoying watching both youngsters and current regional quality players, the regions competing and winning with maybe a different set of fans, or some overlapping, and Wales back towards the top of the world rankings, we can look to expand again. A region in North Wales, or one in the valleys?
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The reason why regionalisation hasn't worked is that it was a c**k up of mixing clubs and regions.
If the WRU had been strong enough at the time, they would not have allowed Llanelli and Cardiff to go alone.
If it had been
Capital, Glamorgan, Gwent, West Wales.
With teams overseen by WRU, as in Ireland, then it may have been successful.
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Definitely the solution.
If SRC can be made the national development pathway, with URC being the international development pathway.
Fir a young talent, the goal being getting into the national set up through exposure in SRC, then when there trying to become a regular IN URC, developing teams that can win the titles and create winning Welsh national teams.
