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WRU confirm they want to reduce to two pro teams

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dirty harry said:
Yes. Although I was talking about 4 regions not 1.

And they wouldn't be fully scratch, 3 prem clubs per region, all under a director of rugby, could all have the same playing style, tactical awareness etc...

But let's be honest, are the welsh regions competitive now? At least with a big home crowd, truly from around the region having a myriad of things to discuss, and the excitement of a progressive idea, with a seige mentality of very rare games from outside Wales (instead of the weekly non competitive who cares where their from tripe) it might at least be enjoyable.
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No but the standard of the SRC would be really poor even compared to now, then you are exposing a team with one week's training to come together and be competitive against the best in Europe.
This idea would cause more damage to the game, as the best players would just go abroad.
 
McTallshort said:
Don't Argentina do something similar? 1 pro team with a semi pro league below. They don't seem to do too badly out of it.
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No, when they had Jaguares in SUPER Rugby, they were contracted full time to the national set up and played the competition in one block.
Only after did these players return to their clubs.
Now they have 3 teams in SRAmericas, who are also contracted to those teams for the period of the competition 12 weeks in one block, before they move back, but most move onto the Pumas or age group sides, or to the 2nd team who play in the American nations event, while the Pumas are in TRC.
 
higgik said:
No but the standard of the SRC would be really poor even compared to now, then you are exposing a team with one week's training to come together and be competitive against the best in Europe.
This idea would cause more damage to the game, as the best players would just go abroad.
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Why would a fully pro SRC be poorer that an amateur SRC? That makes no sense!

The team with 1 weeks training (for game 1) could be aligned by unification of basic strategy and tactics in their region. It wouldnt be like a lions team from all over learning new things, it would be players who play weekly in similar systems, with similar calls, and similar playing styles coming together on a regular basis for 2 windows a season.

Look the regions are not competitive now, the 2 new teams won't be competitive long term as their budgets will be too low, they might win a few game over the first 2 or 3 seasons, but players will still leave, and we will be left with 2 failing regions, and an amateur SRC.

At least my way, there is potential for development. Having 12 pro clubs includes the whole country, right now the majority of the country have no pro rugby to sport, and Cardiff and Newport have been radicalised to football.

Its not a perfect plan, but it's progressive, we would own our own sport, and we could look at progressive ideas to increase marketability and engagement. Things like Academy player drafts system, raise the profile of young players, make it an event, give the regions and clubs educational budgets, end the season with a regional east v west game at the millennium.

We saw a progressive idea years ago, when they played a probably vs possibles thay was a great idea implemented poorly. A west v east would have been better, or even a 1st team pack and 2nd team backs vs 2nd team pack vs 1st team backs to make it more competitive. This would be a success if done now, the east v west fixture could be held liberty / CCFC alternative years.

I know its scary and radical, but we've sold near 30% of our URC share, we have 1 foot out the door already, why not believe in ourselves, invest in Wales and unify and include all of Wales in the product. Improve grass roots, reivigure young players, and create community again.
 
dirty harry said:
Why would a fully pro SRC be poorer that an amateur SRC? That makes no sense!

The team with 1 weeks training (for game 1) could be aligned by unification of basic strategy and tactics in their region. It wouldnt be like a lions team from all over learning new things, it would be players who play weekly in similar systems, with similar calls, and similar playing styles coming together on a regular basis for 2 windows a season.

Look the regions are not competitive now, the 2 new teams won't be competitive long term as their budgets will be too low, they might win a few game over the first 2 or 3 seasons, but players will still leave, and we will be left with 2 failing regions, and an amateur SRC.

At least my way, there is potential for development. Having 12 pro clubs includes the whole country, right now the majority of the country have no pro rugby to sport, and Cardiff and Newport have been radicalised to football.

Its not a perfect plan, but it's progressive, we would own our own sport, and we could look at progressive ideas to increase marketability and engagement. Things like Academy player drafts system, raise the profile of young players, make it an event, give the regions and clubs educational budgets, end the season with a regional east v west game at the millennium.

We saw a progressive idea years ago, when they played a probably vs possibles thay was a great idea implemented poorly. A west v east would have been better, or even a 1st team pack and 2nd team backs vs 2nd team pack vs 1st team backs to make it more competitive. This would be a success if done now, the east v west fixture could be held liberty / CCFC alternative years.

I know its scary and radical, but we've sold near 30% of our URC share, we have 1 foot out the door already, why not believe in ourselves, invest in Wales and unify and include all of Wales in the product. Improve grass roots, reivigure young players, and create community again.
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I meant the standard of SRC compared to regions.
But more to the point, how many pro players would play in this competition when they could play for 4 times the wage in England or France?
The actual standard would still be very low, and then you are asking players to play at a much higher level with one weeks notice.
Ideally, 2 pro teams in an expanded British and Irish League would work.
It creates competive teams in Wales and reforms the local derbies.
 
higgik said:
I meant the standard of SRC compared to regions.
But more to the point, how many pro players would play in this competition when they could play for 4 times the wage in England or France?
The actual standard would still be very low, and then you are asking players to play at a much higher level with one weeks notice.
Ideally, 2 pro teams in an expanded British and Irish League would work.
It creates competive teams in Wales and reforms the local derbies.
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I dont think stepping up a level is that hard, club to international happenes all the time, so from 1 pro club, into a higher standard squad, to play against a higher standard opposition would be easy enough.

Im not saying those regions would become competitive, certainly not straight away, but they would design strategies to deal with it.

Player retention would be an issue initially, but english and French clubs only have so much room, theres a reason Ben Thomas and other international players of his standard arent offered massive contracts elsehwere, they arent wanted.

We may lose stars, but how good is the WRU at keeping them now in reality? Older ints, decent pros and up and coming players would be the bulk.

Just think of the conversations, not just who plays for the regions, but imagine Wales have the option of 20 plus pro 10s to consider for international duty, young 10s getting lots of exposure to pro rugby, and finding form, it would stop us from having to pitch our wagon long term to poor players who waste our resources (ahem Sam Costelow, Ioan Lloyd).

I would like nothing more than 4 regions in a british and Irish league, maybe even a 1st and 2nd division, but the URC pays the Irish too well now, and preps the players too well for int rugby, its almost the Irish golden goose let's be honest what would incentivise them to leave?!

Stop poking holes in my SRC fully pro dream mun, its the only thing I can enjoy ATM. Some people day dream about winning the lottery and spending 10 million, I day dream about going to see Cardiff V Ponty in a full house Arms park, and having a beer and banter with the commandos, or hopping on the train to the Gnoll, or Newport, and all us home and away supporters rejoice, linking arms and singing bread of heaven week in week out in ecstacy...
 
Tooting Carmen said:
Or arguably talent.
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The sad and crazy thing is there is actually so much talent in Wales, I’ve played against former and current internationals growing up some who were brilliant , some who’s face fitted or had a well known Dad. Theres players playing grassroots rugby week in week out who are far more talented than some of our current players, but never had a look in or got given a chance.
 
Joele said:
The sad and crazy thing is there is actually so much talent in Wales, I've played against former and current internationals growing up some who were brilliant , some who's face fitted or had a well known Dad. Theres players playing grassroots rugby week in week out who are far more talented than some of our current players, but never had a look in or got given a chance.
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Unfortunately that's life or just would could have been.

Given population size India could probably have the greatest rugby 23 man squad the world has ever seen. If they or anyone else could be bothered to find the talent.
 
Saintjay said:
Unfortunately that's life or just would could have been.

Given population size India could probably have the greatest rugby 23 man squad the world has ever seen. If they or anyone else could be bothered to find the talent.
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True, but that's mainly because there's not as much exposure to rugby in India, if rugby was the dominant sport then it would be a different story.
The talent in local Welsh rugby is literally there to see for anyone who watches, but what I'm saying is that so many are missing out from a young age because players are picked very early on as they fit a size profile or their face fits. The saying "it's who you know not what you know" is something that gets mentioned pretty much every time Wales are playing
 
Joele said:
True, but that's mainly because there's not as much exposure to rugby in India, if rugby was the dominant sport then it would be a different story.
The talent in local Welsh rugby is literally there to see for anyone who watches, but what I'm saying is that so many are missing out from a young age because players are picked very early on as they fit a size profile or their face fits. The saying "it's who you know not what you know" is something that gets mentioned pretty much every time Wales are playing
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It's been the same in rugby for years. Even when I was playing county. It was what school, who your folks were, or even if the had the right sort of 'car'. In work, sports, and life in general sometimes it's if your face fits. Rightly or wrongly.

Skill and talent sometimes only gets you so far.
 
Joele said:
The sad and crazy thing is there is actually so much talent in Wales, I've played against former and current internationals growing up some who were brilliant , some who's face fitted or had a well known Dad. Theres players playing grassroots rugby week in week out who are far more talented than some of our current players, but never had a look in or got given a chance.
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I mean there are countless examples of this, sadly ive seen it and could give you examples of current Welsh pro players ive coached who couldn't get into a age grade team, but had that family link to those who make the decisions. And it isnt just players, its jobs in general...

I made a joke a few years ago, about the WRU being run like the US government, its probably even more true today lol
 
dirty harry said:
Some people day dream about winning the lottery and spending 10 million, I day dream about going to see Cardiff V Ponty in a full house Arms park, and having a beer and banter with the commandos, or hopping on the train to the Gnoll, or Newport, and all us home and away supporters rejoice, linking arms and singing bread of heaven week in week out in ecstacy...
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Each to their own but I’m on team £10m and wouldn’t then give a flying monkey’s if Wales beat England 100-0 every year till the money ran out.
 
Saintjay said:
Unfortunately that's life or just would could have been.

Given population size India could probably have the greatest rugby 23 man squad the world has ever seen. If they or anyone else could be bothered to find the talent.
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In another now dormant rugby forum I myself made that fallacious argument about population size. How successful a sport is at either national/Test or club level depends also on its level of exposure, prominence in local and national life, the amount of money and resources invested in it and what percentage of your best athletes enter said sport: if your country has a population of 3 million but 20% of its best athletes enter rugby, then that surely at least partly compensates when you are competing against a country with a population of 55 million but where just 2% of its best athletes enter the sport.
 
McTallshort said:
Quite a few comments online saying this is just a way to secure two professional women's teams in Wales. Is there any truth to that?
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Yep.

Tierney was chosen based on her genitalia, and they want 50% board women, they've identified the women's game as a key are of focus.
 
McTallshort said:
Quite a few comments online saying this is just a way to secure two professional women's teams in Wales. Is there any truth to that?
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Doubt it is linked

A certain section of the mens game seem to think anything negative is because people want to focus on the women's game
Eggchasers last year had a hard on for the whole RFU is giving women's rugby £220 million investment

In reality the RFU committed to £50 million over 10 years for the women's game, with the rest of the £170 million coming from the 10 prem clubs and the Private investors.

So JB etc were telling their listeners RFU that instead of saving the championship clubs it was paying women's rugby £22 million a year when in reality it is £5 million a year.

You can do one without it being about the other.


I put it this way Scatlets and Ospreys get about £4.5 million per year each, the two welsh women's teams are projected to get £200K funding per year each.
This has nothing to do with each other and more down to **** poor management from the men's side.
 
Tooting Carmen said:
In another now dormant rugby forum I myself made that fallacious argument about population size. How successful a sport is at either national/Test or club level depends also on its level of exposure, prominence in local and national life, the amount of money and resources invested in it and what percentage of your best athletes enter said sport: if your country has a population of 3 million but 20% of its best athletes enter rugby, then that surely at least partly compensates when you are competing against a country with a population of 55 million but where just 2% of its best athletes enter the sport.
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New Zealand's population is about the same as Scotland's and not much bigger than Wales. Fiji's is significantly smaller. I don't think the population size is an issue. I think the WRU need to look in the mirror if they want to see the real cause.
 
dirty harry said:
Yep.

Tierney was chosen based on her genitalia, and they want 50% board women, they've identified the women's game as a key are of focus.
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What a crock of ****. The womens game should be an area of focus, along with sorting out the mess we're in with the mens game. England have stolen a march in the womens game on most of the world, but now is the time to invest if there's a chance of catching up.

As for Tierney, was she the right choice? Not really sure, her decision to keep Gats was poor, but her appointment of Reddin could be what saves us, if his vision comes good. She inherited a pile of absolote **** from the former MALE 'rugby through and through' rabble, so I was always prepared to give her time. If it doesn't work it will have nothing to fo with her 'genetalia' as you put it!
 
Wales has too many grass roots clubs, they need to merge so the money can be netter spent. Some villages have 2 or 3 clubs and struggle to put out teams and survive when if they merged they would have a solid reserves set up and the overheads on just one venue (for example).

The professional game in my opinion should keep the 4 teams, that was a horrible decision mad in the past that we now have to live with.

2 of the teams should be WRU owned and play in the URC, the other 2 should be fully privatised and apply for the English pyramid. We will then see which model is best, or have our cake and eat it.
 
Taffelaide said:
the other 2 should be fully privatised and apply for the English pyramid
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Franchises have no place in English rugby and would generate little interest. If the actual clubs such as Neath, Ponty, Newport, Llanelli et Al wanted to get involved with the structure then that might be workable. There would have to be a carrot offered as well, say removal of Gatland's law and allowing Welsh players to be part of English academies and qualifying for EQP status that way, there are limits on "foreign" players and funding for clubs after all. Would also benefit the RFU and WRU in that player pools for both countries are widened. I cannot see that happening though...


LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
Eggchasers last year
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More reasons added to not listen to that shoddy show.
 

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