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England 2025/26
- Thread starter TRF_Olyy
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Just like Martin Johnson (yes, that one) did and then went on to become an All Black legend? 3 New Zealand caps at U21 v Australia, wasn't it?
The rules were rightfully changed, as the general consensus is they were rubbish for a short window. Why punish a few players for something they did in that window without realising the full consequences as a teenager? Doesn't seem fair nor proportionate.
Yeah got on top of that RMW, Woodward, Waghorn, Northmore,
Lmaoo
Johnson wouldn't have been able to play for NZ under the new regs cause you know there was no rules as it was amateur. He was there for a season with no ancestry grounds.
Let’s not act like this is a poor boy trapped under circumstances he came to the uk because Irish offered him more money than elsewhere at the time and he wasn’t good enough for SA
When he was a teenager he prob would’ve despised the idea of playing he even said his kids would be like wtf you doing playing for England
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If he did, is hope he'd get the Dunn treatment (being Dunn over).
Knowing Rassie - give him 1 minute... at flanker
I mean you can troll all you want
But considering you can’t think of a alternative comparison show how little you have to argue with
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My view is S.A are the team to beat and he's not being picked for them, so why should we pick a South African reject?
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DVDM?
Callum Sheedy?
Henry Thomas?
Jacob Umaga?
Steven Luatua?
Undoubtedly more as well. There's plenty of examples.
Callum Sheedy?
Henry Thomas?
Jacob Umaga?
Steven Luatua?
Undoubtedly more as well. There's plenty of examples.
Brown Bottle
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To pick one, how is Jacob Umaga in any way comparable?
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Represented England at multiple age grades and fully senior capped, upon appeal to WR and subsequent rule changes, now plays for Samoa.
How is that not comparable?
How is that not comparable?
Brown Bottle
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He just used the existing regulations to switch to Samoa whom he qualifies for through his father.
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Mixed feelings on this. He was ‘captured’ by a palpably silly situation playing for a few minutes in one match when players of his age from other countries and his immediate junior Bok predecessors wouldn’t have been.
So I do have a fair degree of sympathy for his situation and can totally understand why that would be contested, though whether England should have got involved is another matter but they always stood a better chance of overturning than an individual and what organisation doesn’t want to get hold of the best available talent?
Should he play when eligible? Emotionally to many, no. But if he’s the best available and won’t disrupt the changing room then SB would have to make a more powerful case for exclusion than ‘He’s South African, really”. However, neither of those criteria are now givens.
So I do have a fair degree of sympathy for his situation and can totally understand why that would be contested, though whether England should have got involved is another matter but they always stood a better chance of overturning than an individual and what organisation doesn’t want to get hold of the best available talent?
Should he play when eligible? Emotionally to many, no. But if he’s the best available and won’t disrupt the changing room then SB would have to make a more powerful case for exclusion than ‘He’s South African, really”. However, neither of those criteria are now givens.
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Those regs were changed in 2022 after campaigning, especially on behalf of the Pacific nations but it applies to all. After the rule change, players then had to go through a cool down period (3 years or something?) and then directly make an appeal to World Rugby who would then grant or deny their request to play for a different nation.
If you can't draw any comparisons to that at this stage I think you must be being deliberately obtuse. Someone like Umaga who must have had 20+ combined caps for England age and senior is IMO less worthy of switching than someone who was called out last second as a teenager to play for 20 minutes in a short period of time where the eligibility rules were changed, when two years previously and all the years following, someone like DVDM wasn't captured by doing similar.
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Precisely.
And just to reiterate again; I'm not sure BJVR is even going to get an England cap with the current crop of centres doing what they're doing. The outcry seems unwarranted. It is good news for the PREM and Bristol too.
I don't see how being tied at u20 level is silly tbh, you're legally an adult and it's a professional level - these aren't little kids being scammed into doing something they don't want to
BJVR - only wants to play for England for the money
Only the Duhan situation is similar and you'd be hard pressed to find many who think it's right he's playing for Scotland
Frankly they should scrap residence after becoming a professional player (or double it, but have years before 20 count double or something), if you move as a kid then fine but England wasn't even BJ's second port of call as a pro, he'd be turning out for Japan if COVID hadn't cut his time there short
Umaga - Samoan grandparents
BJVR - only wants to play for England for the money
Only the Duhan situation is similar and you'd be hard pressed to find many who think it's right he's playing for Scotland
Frankly they should scrap residence after becoming a professional player (or double it, but have years before 20 count double or something), if you move as a kid then fine but England wasn't even BJ's second port of call as a pro, he'd be turning out for Japan if COVID hadn't cut his time there short
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When it never was previously and isn't now?
Right, but born and raised and played a considerable amount of rugby for England and considers himself English, first and foremost? Was enabled by campaigning against WR rules and had to appeal to switch even after that. Are we really going to pretend that he grew up dreaming of playing for Samoa? That had he been offered free choice at the time he'd have chosen Samoa over England? There's more in common than not.
Should Bundee Aki not be playing for Ireland as he only qualified on residency later on? It's all fine IMO and the BJVR situation is only addressing something of an injustice and anomaly that only occured for two years at max.
Correct
I mean I don't think he should be playing for Samoa either but saying his situation is the same as BJVRs is ridiculous
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I disagree, but we can agree to disagree on that one. It's a more fundamental stance.
I didn't say it was exactly the same but there's far more in common than not.
Skipping over the fundament of what it means to represent a rugby nation; the key to the BJVR situation is the inconsistencies that only occured during a short period of time that previously and subsequently didn't apply. I think justice has finally been done here.
