Japan vs Ireland Kick-off 8.10pm local time/11.10am Irish time

[Saintjay]

I did say the MIDDLE match. The same will apply in two years.
No comment on an Eddie Jones rant or a Fabien Galthie shrug.
Again all 3 British teams are spared of having each way trips to Suva (20-25 hrs).
For the invitees (Fiji and Japan) to logistically work Fiji must play in Europe and the the middle Japan match must be in Australasia.

Still at a brief look at flight times Ireland get the better deal. Especially compared to France and Scotland. France roughly 38hrs total. Ireland roughly 28hrs total. I stress roughly

It's pointless arguing other teams were spared trips to Fiji. That's just if's and but's. Not a record of total flight times each team are actually logging.

I think Japan were shafted and didn't want to compromise but it is what it is. There's no way this comp can be made fare and equal to everyone.

 

[AlRums]

If the 6N team had to travel to Japan for the middle match that would be 44 hrs plane time in under 3 weeks.
Same for England, a flight to Suva from JoBurg would be 20-25 hrs.
As invitees Japan and Fiji compromise tp make it work

So the Japanese team had to do what Ireland refused to do.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Fiji were not playing in Suva no matter what. Its an up to 30 hour commercial journey each way from Joburg. Infeasable. Never happening so Fiji were offered the revenue.

The middle match in the South Pacific group with the return journey to Japan is not happening either.

If one of the British teams want to commit Hari Kari in 4 years....fly up and back to Japan and then take a hiding in Auckland be our guest!! I dont see it so get all the righteousness out of your system now.

It’s not much different in flight times to what England are doing this time going South Africa to England to Argentina

 

[AlRums]

It’s not much different in flight times to what England are doing this time going South Africa to England to Argentina

It's just Irish whinging.

 

[Demfad]

Fiji don't have a big enough ground. They're hoping to make enough money out of this to build a new stadium in Suva.

They have a stadium in Suva where internationals are played. They could have also played in New Zealand? They are not playing in the pacific because it is logistically unfeasable to cross a couple of oceans to and fro weekly matches. It is in GB as the best compromise that suits the European teams which in this scenario is the 3 British teams.

 

[Demfad]

It’s not much different in flight times to what England are doing this time going South Africa to England to Argentina

The difference is an extra 25 hrs flying time FFS!

 

[Demfad]

It's just Irish whinging.

It's Eddie Jones and a few righteous British folk on here who are whinging. I have no issue with Ireland not agreeing to sabotage our chances in this tournament or at a shot of at beating The All Blacks in Eden Park.

 

[Saintjay]

They have a stadium in Suva where internationals are played. They could have also played in New Zealand? They are not playing in the pacific because it is logistically unfeasable to cross a couple of oceans to and fro weekly matches. It is in GB as the best compromise that suits the European teams which in this scenario is the 3 British teams.

You come across as trying to make out the 'British' teams had some kind of advantage. Whilst ignoring the obvious advantage given to Ireland.

If you reversed the France and Ireland fixtures you'd be moaning like mad. France and Japan have every right to be ****** off. Stop trying to divert it to the 'British' teams.

 

[Demfad]

Still at a brief look at flight times Ireland get the better deal. Especially compared to France and Scotland. France roughly 38hrs total. Ireland roughly 28hrs total. I stress roughly

It's pointless arguing other teams were spared trips to Fiji. That's just if's and but's. Not a record of total flight times each team are actually logging.

I think Japan were shafted and didn't want to compromise but it is what it is. There's no way this comp can be made fare and equal to everyone.

And Ireland would have 48 hrs if the middle match was played in Japan. Unfeasable.
Other teams were spared the trip the Fiji. That is a fact. Fiji could have played their matches in the closest stadium probably in NZ. Fijian Drua supporters make those journeys all the time. The match is in London to make the tournament logistics feasable for the 3 British teams and in particular the team playing the 2nd match which in this case is England.

 

[Demfad]

You come across as trying to make out the 'British' teams had some kind of advantage. Whilst ignoring the obvious advantage given to Ireland.

If you reversed the France and Ireland fixtures you'd be moaning like mad. France and Japan have every right to be ****** off. Stop trying to divert it to the 'British' teams.

You come across as trying to make out Ireland has some kind of advantage. Whilst ignoring the obvious advantage given to the British Teams. Lose the righeteousness.
I am not sure how many times I have to point out the difference in travel times between the 2nd match and either the first or 3rd.
Don't think many people in Ireland could give a flying f**k what Galthie or Eddie Jones thinks.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Whilst ignoring the obvious advantage given to the British Teams

Have you seen England's schedule?

 

[Demfad]

Have you seen England's schedule?

Sub in a round trip from Jo-burg to Suva/Auckland to Buenos Aires instead of via London. How does it look now?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sub in a round trip from Jo-burg to Suva/Auckland to Buenos Aires instead of via London. How does it look now?

Better than it does now

 

[Demfad]

Better than it does now

Its an extra 25hrs flying to and from match 2? That's why the match isn't in Suva or Auckland. London was the best option for the 3 NH teams unless the Fijians based themselves in SA (original plan for the England match i think i recall) or Argentina.

Japan get 2 home matches, Fiji get zero.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Mountain meet molehill

Any tier 1 team that got Ireland's draw would have got the same. We're nit some evil force.

It's not right. But nothing is fair outside the top 4 in the world and England currently

 

[Demfad]

Mountain meet molehill

Any tier 1 team that got Ireland's draw would have got the same. We're nit some evil force.

It's not right. But nothing is fair outside the top 4 in the world and England currently

Just to note regarding Japan, they succeeded in getting the rankings for the 2023 RWC draw set to the rankings at end of 2019 tournament due to their earlier covid protocols. So Japan had higher ranking and SA/NZ/Eng/Wal were top 4 which hurt other teams not least Fra/Irl/Sco. They are not without influence.
They were owed something for the 2015 scheduling debacle but the RFU and NZRFU scheduled the Ireland/France match 6-7 days before the QF versus NZ/Arg. The latter putting up 114 points collectively in that QF. This was one of many RWCs that Ireland was volunteered for their big match a week before the QF a scheduling that England and NZ always miraculously escaped from.
A few of the righteous on this forum seem to be blissfully ignorant to the entitlement their team received and lack thereof others received. In England's group in 2015: Wales v Australia was in the unwanted slot 6-7 days before the QF. Wales lost and the French ref sprinted for the tunnel after awarding Australia a very close and dodgy win in Murrayfield.

 

[Demfad]

Quesada noted after the NZ match how difficult they found the travel which he described as "terrible". That is one-way from Japan to Auckland. Doing both directions either side of that 2nd match (twice what Italy had) is therefore unfeasable.

The SH part is divided between Argentina/SA (south Atlantic) and NZ/Aus (Australasia). One invitee is invited to each area. To make that work Fiji must play all their home matches away and Japan must play their middle match away.

 

[Brown Bottle]

They have a stadium in Suva where internationals are played. They could have also played in New Zealand? They are not playing in the pacific because it is logistically unfeasable to cross a couple of oceans to and fro weekly matches. It is in GB as the best compromise that suits the European teams which in this scenario is the 3 British teams.

It was nothing to do with the flight times. Fiji's largest ground in Suva only holds 15,000. The minimum for this competition is 25,000.

 

[Demfad]

It was nothing to do with the flight times. Fiji's largest ground in Suva only holds 15,000. The minimum for this competition is 25,000

Absolutely nothing stopping WR from a pen stroke to change that. Less than 15k at Japan-Ireland.
Nothing to stop them playing in Auckland...oh except flight times. That would be towards 40hrs around that middle match. Would never happen.
The original intention was to play the Fiji matches in SA which helps the NH teams.
How is losing a "home" match in Liverpool 66-6 of any benefit to the Fiji team?
To make it work the two "invited" teams have to compromise. Either that or a rest week is needed.
But please dont insult intelligence that travelling around the globe to play home matches is something that Fiji devised or insisted upon.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Less than 15k at Japan-Ireland? That's another reason why it should have been played in Japan.

 

[Demfad]

Less than 15k at Japan-Ireland? That's another reason why it should have been played in Japan.

Quesada said one way the trip from Japan to Auckland was "terrible" and almost unfeasable. Ergo a return trip is unfeasable. The match would have garnered a major crowd if in a major Australian city. Japan wanted it in the venue of one of their RWC matches.
Please do not insist invitee Japan play all their matches in Japan while insisting Fiji must play their home matches in GB where the have zero chance of winning. Some supporters are completely blind to their own entitlement yet very quick to whinge about others.

 

[AlRums]

A few of the righteous on this forum seem to be blissfully ignorant to the entitlement their team received and lack thereof others received. In England's group in 2015: Wales v Australia was in the unwanted slot 6-7 days before the QF. Wales lost and the French ref sprinted for the tunnel after awarding Australia a very close and dodgy win in Murrayfield.

Wow, there's so much wrong with this paragraph.

Wales lost to Australia, 15-9 all penalties, there was no controversy.

There was then an 8 day gap, the slot was defined by group games, not anything else.

Scotland were robbed of a win over Australia in the QF by a blind ref. He was the one who legged it off the pitch.

Both were played at Twickenham, and the ref in both cases was Craig Joubert who is South African not french.

If you want to pontificate at least have a cursory check of your facts rather than making them up.

 

[Saintjay]

Quesada said one way the trip from Japan to Auckland was "terrible" and almost unfeasable. Ergo a return trip is unfeasable. The match would have garnered a major crowd if in a major Australian city. Japan wanted it in the venue of one of their RWC matches.
Please do not insist invitee Japan play all their matches in Japan while insisting Fiji must play their home matches in GB where the have zero chance of winning. Some supporters are completely blind to their own entitlement yet very quick to whinge about others.

1) Who insisted Fiji play all there games in the UK?

2) Who insisted Japan play in Australia?

3) What is the stadium capacity criteria for this tournament?

 

[Brown Bottle]

I haven't insisted Fiji play anywhere, thanks.

 

[AlRums]

Its an extra 25hrs flying to and from match 2? That's why the match isn't in Suva or Auckland. London was the best option for the 3 NH teams unless the Fijians based themselves in SA (original plan for the England match i think i recall) or Argentina.

Japan get 2 home matches, Fiji get zero.

Totally wrong.

The nations championship requires stadium capacity of 25,000. That regulation forced Fiji's hand.

Suva has a capacity of 15,500

Have you ever seen Suva?

The two ends are just grass banks.

Fiji stood to make far more money from the games being in the UK. Although the Wales crowd was pretty pathetic (16,000), yesterday's attendance was 45,000 and I think at Murrayfield should be a decent crowd as well. I am assuming ticket prices were much higher in the UK than Fiji.

The travel for UK teams is irrelevant, but the opportunity for many more higher tickets paying spectators was paramount.

Bear in mind Fiji could have picked, Australia, New Zealand or even Hong Kong for example.

Fiji want to invest in Fijian rugby and build a 30,000 capacity stadium at home, so the money is important.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ng-fiji-are-forced-to-suck-up-the-bottom-line

 

[AlRums]

1) Who insisted Fiji play all there games in the UK?

2) Who insisted Japan play in Australia?

3) What is the stadium capacity criteria for this tournament?

1. No-one, Fiji needed stadium capacity it didn't have.

2. As I understand it Ireland were the driving party. Aka they whinged.

3. Yes, minimum stadium capacity of 25,000, Suva only has 15,500 capacity. That regulation forced Fiji's hand.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The comp organisers are at fault for both.

Having a rule that doesn't allow a participating nation play at home is bad.

Forcing another nation to not play all theirs at home is bad.

For all the criticism Ireland are getting, the IRFU absolutely doesn't have the power to make the decision.

 

[Demfad]

Wow, there's so much wrong with this paragraph.

Wales lost to Australia, 15-9 all penalties, there was no controversy.

There was then an 8 day gap, the slot was defined by group games, bit anything else.

Scotland were robbed of a win over Australia in the QF by a blind ref. He was the one who legged it off the pitch.

Both were played at Twickenham, and the ref in both cases was Craig Joubert who is South African not french.

If you want to pontificate at least have a cursory check of your facts rather than making them up.

Yawn. As usual England avoided a major match the weekend before the quarters. As usual others did not, including their co pool teams Australia and Wales. Ireland and France were scheduled to play their big match a week before their QF. RFU and NZRFU scheduled this i.e. they groups games were DEFINED by them. NZRFU to schedule their opponents to play the week before a QF against NZ is boder line corrupt.
Who cares about the nationality of the ref? The scheduling is the point.

 

[Saintjay]

The comp organisers are at fault for both.

Having a rule that doesn't allow a participating nation play at home is bad.

Forcing another nation to not play all theirs at home is bad.

For all the criticism Ireland are getting, the IRFU absolutely doesn't have the power to make the decision.

Honestly it's no criticism of Ireland. It's more the BS narrative it's the British teams fault and entitlement when clearly it cuts both ways. With one person's refusal to acknowledge Japan were shafted

Which as you said it the comp organisers fault.

 

[Demfad]

1. No-one, Fiji needed stadium capacity it didn't have.

2. As I understand it Ireland were the driving party. Aka they whinged.

3. Yes, minimum stadium capacity of 25,000, Suva only has 15,500 capacity. That regulation forced Fiji's hand.

So Japan had no agency to force a home match but Fiji had full agency to play all their matches in the UK.
Get real.

The Fiji matches were moved to suit all the British teams. The English match was originally supposed to be in SA to suit England.

The match was supposed to be in SA and Argentina to suit the Brits. Fiji then wanted it in France where their squad was. But the Brits prsumably forced GB. Scotland and Wales must have stopped England's plan to have the easiest draw: play Fiji first.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ural-nations-championship-matches-rugby-union

"As per tournament protocols, England’s proposed match with Fiji would take place in either South Africa or Argentina but it is understood the Pacific Islanders would want the fixture to take place in Europe, mostly likely France where a substantial portion of their squad is based. Should that materialise, it is expected that England would play Fiji first before travelling to South Africa and Argentina."


"As I understand it Ireland were the driving party. Aka they whinged."
Some folks just can't help but to be condescending and self righteous.....and to hoist you by your own petard: you are the whinging pom.