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You know this game is going to be a **** show as we’re talking about the *******. Falklands instead of the game.

I say let the Welsh colonists take over all of Argentina. Their fault for massively promoting European immigration.
 
You know this game is going to be a **** show as we’re talking about the *******. Falklands instead of the game.

I say let the Welsh colonists take over all of Argentina. Their fault for massively promoting European immigration.
Haven't seen one person with the only correct view either.

Let these guys run it:

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Two cheeks of the same right wing jongoistic arse this pair!
 
By that argument Argentina has no right to self determination as it is the product of Spanish imperialism.

You have to draw the line somewhere and the current inhabitants have the strongest claim if any group in the world of being the natives of the islands.

Britain displays massive hypocrisy all over the place regarding our imperial past, the Falklands are one of the few places where we aren't.
Not the same argument as Argentina is not currently ruled by Spain and has been able to "self determine" for centuries. The current inhabitants cant stand alone. The referendum is a farce.
European Colonialism belongs in the dustbin of history.
The UK just needs to keep to its own continent and settle with Argentina innthe best interests of everyone concerned.
 
Not the same argument as Argentina is not currently ruled by Spain and has been able to "self determine" for centuries. The current inhabitants cant stand alone. The referendum is a farce.
European Colonialism belongs in the dustbin of history.
The UK just needs to keep to its own continent and settle with Argentina innthe best interests of everyone concerned.
Pure ******* ignorance
 
The a
Pure ******* ignorance
Great argument! Any substantaition for it?
In any scenario the Islands cannot sustainable self govern. Therefore the question whether its more sustainable for it to belong to an old colony in a different hemisphere or to teh country adjacent to it.
For the record I give zero credence to any British pretence to righteousness here and I am often astounded by the blinkered righteousness of some from that nation, right wing and progressive alike.
 
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what an odious turd, a bit like most of their players and some (not all) of their fans. ‘We’re going to claim what’s ours” - you had your chance in 1982 you silly cow but cried off and surrendered as soon as it got difficult.
 
I don’t know much about this Argentinian government but they haven’t come across well during this WC, but neither have their fans either to be fair, as well as the actual football team when they sung that racist song a couple of years ago. They need to get a grip on this **** to be honest but there doesn’t seem to be any desire to.
 
I don’t know much about this Argentinian government but they haven’t come across well during this WC, but neither have their fans either to be fair, as well as the actual football team when they sung that racist song a couple of years ago. They need to get a grip on this **** to be honest but there doesn’t seem to be any desire to.
Right wing populist government, heavy corruption. I can see the appeal for people of the Falklands

Government should stay silent on sport.
 
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I don’t know much about this Argentinian government but they haven’t come across well during this WC, but neither have their fans either to be fair, as well as the actual football team when they sung that racist song a couple of years ago. They need to get a grip on this **** to be honest but there doesn’t seem to be any desire to.
They’re bad winners and even worse losers.
 
Right wing populist government, heavy corruption. I can see the appeal for people of the Falklands

Government should stay silent on sport.
Agreed. I guess you can argue that everything is political on some level but I think we can all agree we can do without elected officials shouting their mouth off about long term disputes during the build up of a massive sporting event.
 
Okay, a quick, and accurate history of the Falklands/Malvinas (Well, as accurate as I can make it with 30-40 minutes of google, and an attempt to remove my jingoism)


TL;DR:
There are no indigenous population to be displaced. Any arguments based on this are 100% spurious and either ignorant or bad faith.
"We saw it first" is disputed between the Portuguese, the English and the Dutch - none of whom did anything with it at the time.
"We got their first" is certainly the French (later sold to Spain), with the English also making a claim - their ignorance may have been genuine, or it may have been the innocence of a prop after collapsing a scrum.
"We proclaimed sovereignty first" is Britain, with Spain 2nd and UPRP 3rd.
"We established the current bloodlines" appears to be UPRP, but Argentina refute this... somewhat oddly. NB: This colony was legally disputed from before it was founded.
"Might is right!" Difficult, the Spanish remove the English by force, twice - but both leave of their own accord later. Britain exhibited might to back up their legal case in the 1830s. Obviously, Argentina tried and failed 44 years ago.
"We've been here the longest" is certainly Britain - the Spanish managed 45 years, but left of their own accord; the British have managed 93 years and counting (+14 if you want to count those, but I wouldn't).




Circa 1400: There is some evidence of human occupation around 1400CE (charcoal, stone arrow heads). There is no evidence of prolonged occupation that I'm aware of.
Circa 1500: The Portuguese have a map with some islands off the coast of Patagonia called the Sansoms - but there's no extant report on them, and they're thought to be far too close to the mainland.
1592: English explorer Jon Davis, on Cavendish's second new world expedition took refuge amongst "undiscovered" and uninhabited islands broadly where the Falklands are. Problems measuring Longitude at the time casts some doubt, as he thought he was 240km off the mainland, not 360.
1600: Dutchman, Sebald de Weert landed on the islands, which were uninhabited, and called them the Sebald Islands - thinking himself their discoverer - possibly correctly, certainly the first to be beyond doubt.

1764: The first colony was established by the French: the islands were uninhabited on their arrival. Naming them Îles Malouines.
1765: The 2nd colony was established by the English: apparently thinking them uninhabited, unaware of the French colony (at least, officially unaware).
1766: Spain buys the islands from France (or technically, from Louis de Bougainville, who'd founded the colony).
1770: Spain discover the English, and remove them by force.
1771: The English re-establish their original (2nd) colony - and this time the Spanish allowed it.
1776: British military support was withdrawn, but the colony remained. Britain maintained a proclamation of sovereignty.
1780: British colony removed by Spain.
1811: The Spanish leave, and the islands are, once again, uninhabited. Spain maintained a proclamation of sovereignty.

1820: Islands were claimed for 6 months by American pirates declaring them for United Provinces of River Plate. No attempt to establish a colony was made.
1823: UPRP settlers land, they stay for about a week.
1826: Ditto.
1828: Another attempt - this time with requested (and rejected) assistance from Britain (I don't know if this was also protested).
1829: UPRP designated the islands as their own - under protest from the British government who still proclaimed sovereignty.
1832: Britain sends a naval task force to back up their proclaimed sovereignty.
1833: The colony is handed over to the Brit.s (this is disputed as Argentina claim the colony was expelled, but given the a colony continued with people of the same name, this seems dubious).
1953: Argentina offers to buy the Falklands from Britain, but are rejected.
1982: Argentina invade, and hold the islands under military occupation for 74 days before surrendering.
 
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Okay, a quick, and real history of the Falklands/Malvinas

Circa 1400: There is some evidence of human occupation around 1400CE (charcoal, stone arrow heads). There is no evidence of prolonged occupation that I'm aware of.
Circa 1500: The Portuguese have a map with some islands off the coast of Patagonia called the Sansoms - but there's no extant report on them, and they're thought to be far too close to the mainland.
1592: English explorer Jon Davis, on Cavendish's second new world expedition took refuge amongst "undiscovered" and uninhabited islands broadly where the Falklands are. Problems measuring Longitude at the time casts some doubt, as he thought he was 240km off the mainland, not 360.
1600: Dutchman, Sebald de Weert landed on the islands, which were uninhabited, and called them the Sebald Islands - thinking himself their discoverer - possibly correctly, certainly the first to be beyond doubt.

1764: The first colony was established by the French: the islands were uninhabited on their arrival. Naming them Îles Malouines.
1765: The 2nd colony was established by the English: apparently thinking them uninhabited, unaware of the French colony (at least, officially unaware).
1766: Spain buys the islands from France (or technically, from Louis de Bougainville, who'd founded the colony).
1770: Spain discover the English, and remove them by force.
1771: The English re-establish their original (2nd) colony - and this time the Spanish allowed it.
1776: British military support was withdrawn, but the colony remained. Britain maintained a proclamation of sovereignty.
1780: British colony removed by Spain.
1811: The Spanish leave, and the islands are, once again, uninhabited. Spain maintained a proclamation of sovereignty.

1820: Islands were claimed for 6 months by American pirates declaring them for United Provinces of River Plate. No attempt to establish a colony was made.
1823: UPRP settlers land, they stay for about a week.
1826: Ditto.
1828: Another attempt - this time with requested (and rejected) assistance from Britain (I don't know if this was also protested).
1829: UPRP designated the islands as their own - under protest from the British government who still proclaimed sovereignty.
1832: Britain sends a naval task force to back up their proclaimed sovereignty.
1833: The colony is handed over to the Brit.s (this is disputed as Argentina claim the colony was expelled, but given the a colony continued with people of the same name, this seems dubious).
1953: Argentina offers to buy the Falklands from Britain, but are rejected.
1982: Argentina invade, and hold the islands under military occupation for 74 days before surrendering.

TL:DR:
There are no indigenous population to be displaced. Any arguments based on this are 100% spurious and either ignorant or bad faith.
"We saw it first" is disputed between the Portuguese, the English and the Dutch - none of whom did anything with it at the time.
"We got their first" is certainly the French (later sold to Spain), with the English also making a claim - their ignorance may have been genuine, or it may have been the innocence of a prop after collapsing a scrum.
"We proclaimed sovereignty first" is Britain, with Spain 2nd and UPRP 3rd.
"We established the current bloodlines" appears to be UPRP, but Argentina refute this... somewhat oddly. NB: This colony was legally disputed from before it was founded.
"Might is right!" Difficult, the Spanish remove the English by force, twice - but both leave of their own accord later. Britain exhibited might to back up their legal case in the 1830s. Obviously, Argentina tried and failed 44 years ago.
"We've been here the longest" is certainly Britain - the Spanish managed 45 years, but left of their own accord; the British have managed 93 years and counting (+14 if you want to count those, but I wouldn't).
What has the fact that there are no indigenous populations to displace got to do with anything? Does that mean they should be displaced? There aren’t any indigenous people left in Argentina or anywhere else for that matter. English people aren’t indigenous to England.

If there were indigenous people on the falklands would you say whatever they say goes?
 
Anyway, I’ll be surprised if this game doesn’t go to ET. If it goes to pens you’ve got to fancy Argentina but both teams have scored goal in ET so who knows. Think it’ll be pens.
Penalties?. Oh god - the thought of that makes me sick. I’m going 2-1 England AET. Just focusing on the game - I’ll still maintain that this isn’t a great Argentina side - but they’ve got spirit, they’ve got togetherness, they would literally die on the pitch for their country and they’ve got, in my opinion, the best player that’s ever played the game.

Just a quick word on last night - that was an absolute masterclass from Spain, they passed France off the park. They were awesome, a great team beats a team of great individuals every day of the week. De La Fuente is a top coach - he completely out coached Deschamps - if we win, the tactical battle between him and Tuchel in the final would be fascinating.
 
Penalties?. Oh god - the thought of that makes me sick. I’m going 2-1 England AET. Just focusing on the game - I’ll still maintain that this isn’t a great Argentina side - but they’ve got spirit, they’ve got togetherness, they would literally die on the pitch for their country and they’ve got, in my opinion, the best player that’s ever played the game.

Just a quick word on last night - that was an absolute masterclass from Spain, they passed France off the park. They were awesome, a great team beats a team of great individuals every day of the week. De La Fuente is a top coach - he completely out coached Deschamps - if we win, the tactical battle between him and Tuchel in the final would be fascinating.
It may not be the best ever but it’s still littered with top class players who play for some of the best clubs in the world. They’re an extremely good side albeit one that hasn’t performed particularly well which is both a concern and a positive. As the old adage goes, true champions find a way to win even when not at their best. To be fair, England have also shown this trait this WC.
 
You seen his record? If I recall correctly he’s missed 4 of his last 8 WC pens including 2 this tournament. Incredible really. Someone needs to have a word with him. 🤣
Yeah, 50% is mental
Mix him and Penaldo together and you might get a half decent player
 
Longer than Argentina has existed
Not true, and funny enough, that is one of the arguments from the argentine side. There were no british settlements at the time we became independent (1760s till 1833 iirc). They were under spanish control at the time.

You have to draw the line somewhere and the current inhabitants have the strongest claim if any group in the world of being the natives of the islands.
That's a point that needs to be argued and supported, not merely asserted. You appear to believe that the usurpers has some sort of acquired rights. We does not.
 
By that argument Argentina has no right to self determination as it is the product of Spanish imperialism.
You honestly believe that Argentine independence came about because of our right to self determination? Seriously?
This has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with rights, and Chagos is the best example that rights mean nothing, specially to the government that has been using it as a cornerstone for the claim of Malvinas.
Decades, simultaneously claiming self determination to sustain a position on one group of islands while doing exactly the opposite on another. And you want to take the moral high ground by talking about rights? Delusional take.

It has everything to do with power: the ability to enforce one's will. You have that power now. The key word is "now." Spain had that power over us for a time as well.
 
I see both sides and don't love either. Probably more sympathetic to Argentina in a way although I don't think they have any more of a claim than the UK.

"Finders Keepers" is a terrible claim imo - hasn't really worked out anywhere with a larger population (indigenous people is a bit of a distraction to the discussion because they were often wiped out / nullified by invaders anyway - the US and Australia dont exist because thats what indigenous people wanted).

"It's in our back garden" also isn't a fantastic claim (it's the use of that claim that leaves Irish people a little bit unsympathetic towards England in world cups among other things) but in this case when you look at the vastness of the sea and airspace that Britain has, and how disproportionate this is for an island with less people than the average attendance of a Dragons URC match - I can understand why it ****** them off.

Can't see Britain wanting much to do with the Falklands if sea and airspace was governed with any consideration of population.

All very stupid and as much a byproduct of colonialism as any disputed territory. At least no cultures or languages were wiped out I suppose.
 

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