Welsh squad under Gatland

[dullonien]

Here's a place to discuss the Welsh squad in the run-up to the 6N and WC later next year. Here's my thoughts on how we're shaping up per position.

Loosehead
Rhys Carre, Gareth Thomas, Nicky Smith (Wyn Jones)

I think Gats may go into the 6N with Carre as his first choice looshead. Carre has found a rich vein of form for Cardiff, scrummaging strongly and adding considerable impact around the field. Gareth Thomas and Nicky Smith are both performing well at the Ospreys. Wyn Jones will come back into the reckoning if he can stay fit.

Hooker
Dewi Lake, Ken Owens, Bradley Roberts (Ryan Elias, Elliot Dee)

Lake's recent injury is a real shame, as he was quickly rising to become Wales' first choice hooker in time for the WC. I think he's the sort of hooker Gats likes, in the Hibbard mould, someone who can really bring some physicality, even if his throwing can be a little flaky. Ken Owens, recovery from a lengthy lay off has been impressive, I can see him making it till the WC for his swansong. The third hooking berth could be interesting, I'm not a fan of Elias personally, but have been mightily impressed by Roberts for Dragons since arriving from Ulster.

Tighthead
Dillon Lewis, Thomas Francis, Leon Brown (WillGriff John, Harri O'Connor, Sam Wainwright)

Onto our problem position. Dillon Lewis has really pushed on this season to be fair, with his scrummaging a big improvement, so that's a silver lining at least. Thomas Francis looked really poor in the AI's though, really struggling in all aspects. Let's hope that was a blip because we need him at his best to have any hope at the WC, because after those two the cupboard is looking very bare! Brown has all the potential but can't string games together, whilst WillGriff has struggled to get going since moving to the Scarlets - he's started to show signs of form lately though, fingers crossed. Not sure if Wainwright has what it takes after the AI's!

Second Row
AWJ, Will Rowlands, Adam Beard, Christ Tshiunza (Dafydd Jenkins, Rhys Davies, Ben Carter, Seb Davies)

So, the big question, will AWJ make the WC? He put in a performance that rolled back the years v Australia, but he's otherwise been a bit meh for a while now for Wales and Ospreys. Ospreys arguably looked better without him on the weekend with Beard and Davies. Rowlands is a very similar player to AWJ, but in far better form and a better age, but with his move to Racing 92 will he be eligible for the WC - what a spanner in the works that would be! The hope is that both Tshiunza and Jenkins may be ready for the WC, but realistically it's a little soon for locks who tend to take a few years to fill-out physically. I know there's been talk about whether Tshiunza is a lock or 6, but with our pool of backrow players I think Wales have to develop him as an athletic lock in the Itoje mould. Rhys Davies could offer that physicality though, a little surprised Pivac never tested him, I rate him above Carter at this point. How about Seb Davies, he looks to have put on some kilo's recently and has been an the heart of Cardiff's recent run of form? Finally we come to Adam Beard - he's got the lot in terms of raw ingredients, he's tall, over 18st, intelligent, has good hands; but he's just far too placid for an international lock imo. He barely ever makes metres in the carry, or make a dominant tackle, but he can defend a maul! Gat's always liked him, so no doubt he'll be in the squad, but he doesn't offer enough for me.

Backrow
Taulupe Faletau, Jack Morgan, Justin Tipuric, James Botham, Ross Moriarty, Aaron Wainwright, Tommy Reffell (Morgan Morris, Taine Basham, Thomas Young, Josh Navidi, Josh Macleod, James Ratti)

This is really tough to narrow down! Imo Faletau, Tipuric and Jack Morgan are nailed on, but after that there's a ton of options to choose from. I think Moriarty will come back into the mix with his physicality and versatility to cover 8. Wainwright could shoot up the pecking order again as Gats has publicly stated how highly he rates him. How do you choose between Young, Reffell and Basham? Maybe Reffell with his recent showings in SA, but I think Basham has the highest ceiling, although he makes a few more mistakes, whilst Young has been in fine recent form... For me, Macleod drops out of the picture until he shows a run of form for the Scarlets. One player who could be parachuted straight into the 6N squad is James Botham. He's been phenomenal of late for Cardiff, a real all rounder in the mould of Warburton or Navidi with a huge engine. I could see him being just the type of player Gats would value.

Backs to follow...

 

[Welsh Exile]

A great summary. I really hope Leon Brown can stay fit, I hear he's back in the next few weeks so fingers crossed he can stay injury free between now and the end of the season.

I'm a fan of Seb Davies and think he's come on recently and was disappointed to see him dropped for the SA tour when I didn't think his performances warranted it. I'm not sure he'll be in Gatlands thoughts but could be wrong.

I guess it's only 6 weeks or so until 6N squad is announced and you would've thought we'd have at the very least some changes to the 60 cap rule by then as we can't go into the WC not knowing who we can and can't select as I imagine they'll be a few more names leaving Wales at the end of the year.

 

[dullonien]

Scrum Half
Tomos Williams, Kieran Hardy, Dane Blacker (Gareth Davies)

Tomos Williams hasn't quite hit the heights I think he's capable of - he's a potentially world class scrum half, and has moments of real class, but doesn't quite show it consistently enough. He's probably still 1st choice going into the 6N. Hardy is a good all-round option, but the dark horse could well be Blacker who's showing some real signs of quality at Scarlets with a mix of pinpoint kicking and quick, sharp service from the base. I'm not entertaining the idea of Webb who's far too slow for international rugby now - great regional player though he still is.

Outside Half
Dan Biggar, Jarrod Evans, Sam Costellow (Rhys Patchell, Callum Sheedy)

I think we're in a bit of a muddle here, reliant on Biggar despite indifferent form. There's no denying that I'm not a fan of Biggar. I respect his drive and determination, but is he a player who's fully capable of unleashing our dangerous wide men? Other than through a cross kick which is his go to attacking play, that's not good enough sorry! I'd love to see Jarrod Evans or Costellow given the reigns and allowed to build.

Centre
Joe Hawkins, Johnny Williams, Max Llewellyn, George North, Owen Williams (Mason Grady, Nick Tompkins, Owen Watkin, Scott Williams, Kieran Williams)

Hawkins was a revelation v Australia, a centre capable of distributing, kicking, and physical enough to truck it up if required. I really hope Gats continues with Joe at 12. Johnny Williams needs some luck on the injury front, but he offers a lot when fit. At 13, North had a decent AI, but we're still not getting the most out of him. I could see Llewellyn coming into the mix as he looks ready for the step-up, the angles he runs are sublime! I know Owen Williams has only started once for Ospreys, and at 10, but I've always thought he could offer something for Wales as a second five-eighth type centre, although the likelihood is that Owen Watkin will continue to be involved even if his progress has stalled! Tompkins may be one to drop-out, not sure his slightly panicked style of play is what Gats will be looking for, it would be harsh as he's been one of Wales' better performers of late, but there's more rounded alternatives imo.

Back 3
Liam Williams, LRZ, Josh Adams, Rio Dyer, Ryan Conbeer (Alex Cuthbert, Keelan Giles, Owen Lane, Ashton Hewitt, Johnny McNicholl, Tom Rogers, Leigh Halfpenny)

Lots of quality options available out wide, we just need to get them the ball in space. I'd like to see Conbeer come into the squad as he's been consistently excellent for Scarlets for a while now. Whilst Cuthbert has let no one down, I personally think there are better options available. I like Giles ball in hand, but he was badly exposed v Leicester in the air which could be badly exposed at international level. Fullback is a bit of a worry if Liam Williams is injured, so I'd like to see either LRZ or Adams given a proper run of games there during the 6N.

 

[Welsh Exile]

What's your thoughts on Rhys Webb being potentially brought back in? My dad still loves him (as do certain writers for the WOL) and thinks he's the best 9 in Wales which I strongly disagree with but i must admit I'd have him in front of Gareth Davies all day every day at the minute and I wouldn't be throwing my toys out if he went ahead of Hardy either.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Sorry ignore that post above. Can see you wrote a sentence on him. Must have missed that.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm a big fan of Halaholo but like many others he just can't stay fit. Would love him to get a few months of solid rugby under his belt to put his hand up though. Think I'm going to have to let it go with him. We've got some options as 12 now it's just some are a bit to raw or not quite at the level we need. I think Gatland will like Johnny Williams.

 

[dullonien]

What's your thoughts on Rhys Webb being potentially brought back in? My dad still loves him (as do certain writers for the WOL) and thinks he's the best 9 in Wales which I strongly disagree with but i must admit I'd have him in front of Gareth Davies all day every day at the minute and I wouldn't be throwing my toys out if he went ahead of Hardy either.

Yeah, WOL have a hard on for Webb, always have. He still has a good eye for the gap/dummy, but he's not quick enough anymore to fully exploit it anymore. His kicking has never been great, and that's still an issue, and he still throws some silly offloads (e.g. v Leicester showed the best and worst of him).

I just don't see how he's a viable option anymore given the alternative options we have. I'd still have Gareth Davies ahead of him personally.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeah that's fair. I do think his kicking game has been pretty decent recently though but I think Hardy on the whole brings a good kicking game. Agree on the other negatives you cite re Webb though.

I like the look of Blacker but like Dafydd Jenkins, Hawkins and maybe Tshiunza, next years World Cup is maybe a bit early for them and they'll be more looking at 2027. Think Gatland will like Tshiunza though.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Another thing that didn't occur to me that the sages at WOL reminded me of is that if there are changes to the 60 cap law (which by the sounds of it there most definitely will be) that opens the door for Jake Ball and Cory Hill. I'd rather develop Jenkins and Tshiunza though to be honest but food for thought.

 

[dullonien]

WOL reporting that Howley (attack), Jonathan Thomas (forwards) and Paul Gustard (defence) may be on Gatland's radar for backroom staff positions.

 

[Scotty]

Here's a place to discuss the Welsh squad in the run-up to the 6N and WC later next year. Here's my thoughts on how we're shaping up per position.

Loosehead
Rhys Carre, Gareth Thomas, Nicky Smith (Wyn Jones)

I think Gats may go into the 6N with Carre as his first choice looshead. Carre has found a rich vein of form for Cardiff, scrummaging strongly and adding considerable impact around the field. Gareth Thomas and Nicky Smith are both performing well at the Ospreys. Wyn Jones will come back into the reckoning if he can stay fit.

Hooker
Dewi Lake, Ken Owens, Bradley Roberts (Ryan Elias, Elliot Dee)

Lake's recent injury is a real shame, as he was quickly rising to become Wales' first choice hooker in time for the WC. I think he's the sort of hooker Gats likes, in the Hibbard mould, someone who can really bring some physicality, even if his throwing can be a little flaky. Ken Owens, recovery from a lengthy lay off has been impressive, I can see him making it till the WC for his swansong. The third hooking berth could be interesting, I'm not a fan of Elias personally, but have been mightily impressed by Roberts for Dragons since arriving from Ulster.

Tighthead
Dillon Lewis, Thomas Francis, Leon Brown (WillGriff John, Harri O'Connor, Sam Wainwright)

Onto our problem position. Dillon Lewis has really pushed on this season to be fair, with his scrummaging a big improvement, so that's a silver lining at least. Thomas Francis looked really poor in the AI's though, really struggling in all aspects. Let's hope that was a blip because we need him at his best to have any hope at the WC, because after those two the cupboard is looking very bare! Brown has all the potential but can't string games together, whilst WillGriff has struggled to get going since moving to the Scarlets - he's started to show signs of form lately though, fingers crossed. Not sure if Wainwright has what it takes after the AI's!

Second Row
AWJ, Will Rowlands, Adam Beard, Christ Tshiunza (Dafydd Jenkins, Rhys Davies, Ben Carter, Seb Davies)

So, the big question, will AWJ make the WC? He put in a performance that rolled back the years v Australia, but he's otherwise been a bit meh for a while now for Wales and Ospreys. Ospreys arguably looked better without him on the weekend with Beard and Davies. Rowlands is a very similar player to AWJ, but in far better form and a better age, but with his move to Racing 92 will he be eligible for the WC - what a spanner in the works that would be! The hope is that both Tshiunza and Jenkins may be ready for the WC, but realistically it's a little soon for locks who tend to take a few years to fill-out physically. I know there's been talk about whether Tshiunza is a lock or 6, but with our pool of backrow players I think Wales have to develop him as an athletic lock in the Itoje mould. Rhys Davies could offer that physicality though, a little surprised Pivac never tested him, I rate him above Carter at this point. How about Seb Davies, he looks to have put on some kilo's recently and has been an the heart of Cardiff's recent run of form? Finally we come to Adam Beard - he's got the lot in terms of raw ingredients, he's tall, over 18st, intelligent, has good hands; but he's just far too placid for an international lock imo. He barely ever makes metres in the carry, or make a dominant tackle, but he can defend a maul! Gat's always liked him, so no doubt he'll be in the squad, but he doesn't offer enough for me.

Backrow
Taulupe Faletau, Jack Morgan, Justin Tipuric, James Botham, Ross Moriarty, Aaron Wainwright, Tommy Reffell (Morgan Morris, Taine Basham, Thomas Young, Josh Navidi, Josh Macleod, James Ratti)

This is really tough to narrow down! Imo Faletau, Tipuric and Jack Morgan are nailed on, but after that there's a ton of options to choose from. I think Moriarty will come back into the mix with his physicality and versatility to cover 8. Wainwright could shoot up the pecking order again as Gats has publicly stated how highly he rates him. How do you choose between Young, Reffell and Basham? Maybe Reffell with his recent showings in SA, but I think Basham has the highest ceiling, although he makes a few more mistakes, whilst Young has been in fine recent form... For me, Macleod drops out of the picture until he shows a run of form for the Scarlets. One player who could be parachuted straight into the 6N squad is James Botham. He's been phenomenal of late for Cardiff, a real all rounder in the mould of Warburton or Navidi with a huge engine. I could see him being just the type of player Gats would value.

Backs to follow...

Tzshiunza is a back row not a second row. Just FYI. Great young player though be up to the international level in a year or 2 i think but needs more experience

 

[dullonien]

Tzshiunza is a back row not a second row. Just FYI. Great young player though be up to the international level in a year or 2 i think but needs more experience

That's up for debate imo. I know he's played mostly in the backrow for Exeter, but he was primarily a lock at age grade, and I think Gats would be mad not to push him towards lock given the ridiculous depth we have in the backrow. His stats are very similar to Itoje and Tadhg Beirne who have primarily played in the second row even if they've flirted with the backrow at times.

 

[BiggusLaddus]

Another thing that didn't occur to me that the sages at WOL reminded me of is that if there are changes to the 60 cap law (which by the sounds of it there most definitely will be) that opens the door for Jake Ball and Cory Hill. I'd rather develop Jenkins and Tshiunza though to be honest but food for thought.

With Rowlands out now I'd definitely bring Ball back in.

 

[Welsh Exile]

With Rowlands out now I'd definitely bring Ball back in.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rowlands is playing at the WC due to changes to the 60 cap rule

He is out of the 6N due to injury so I guess Gatland might choose to rule him out knowing he's going to be going into the WC cold if selected on top of the fact he doesn't know him as a player might count against him.

The 2nd row options Gatland picks for the 6N will be interesting. Outside of Beard who's guaranteed a spot and AWJ will obviously be selected it isn't obvious who else comes in under Gatland. No Ball or Hill to pick and Rowlands out. I do wonder if he will start Tshiunza there. We're stacked in the back row, he's already commented as a pundit how much he likes Jac Morgan, Tipuric and Faletau are shoo ins of fit and we have issues in the row. Outside of that I'd like to see Seb Davies get a decent crack.

Sorry, but if a rant and to your particular point I wouldn't be upset to see Ball back but he's been out a while now. Same for Hill though in form Hill is player I like more than Ball.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If Ball's eligible then so is Rowlands, and Rowlands is the better player (unless Ball has moved back to Wales and I missed the news?)

 

[Welsh Exile]

If Ball's eligible then so is Rowlands, and Rowlands is the better player (unless Ball has moved back to Wales and I missed the news?)

Yeah we'll have to see what changes are made in the coming months but I think they'll both be available. Reduce the amount of caps needed to 20 is my guess.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wales - Humphreys and Jenkins stay on - Welsh Rugby Union

Jonathan Humphreys and Neil Jenkins will stay on as part of Warren Gatland’s coaching team - as the new Wales boss confirms the first elements of his back

www.wru.wales

How long until Howley's announced?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wales - Humphreys and Jenkins stay on - Welsh Rugby Union

Jonathan Humphreys and Neil Jenkins will stay on as part of Warren Gatland’s coaching team - as the new Wales boss confirms the first elements of his back

www.wru.wales

How long until Howley's announced?

About a week. So uninspiring but I guess it's all short term thinking really, despite what the WRU say.

To be fair, watching our attack under Jones/Pivac Howley doesn't seem so bad. I'm surprised Humphreys has stayed but maybe that was more to do with not being able to get Mcbryde? If I had to pick a coach that was staying I would've guessed it would be Gethin Jenkins but shows what I know.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

About a week. So uninspiring but I guess it's all short term thinking really, despite what the WRU say.

To be fair, watching our attack under Jones/Pivac Howley doesn't seem so bad. I'm surprised Humphreys has stayed but maybe that was more to do with not being able to get Mcbryde? If I had to pick a coach that was staying I would've guessed it would be Gethin Jenkins but shows what I know.

Who do you think potential options are?

I would say maybe he's getting the old gang back together but Edwards has renewed with France and I doubt McBryde would sack in the Leinster job for what is essentially a 6ish month contract with Wales

If you end up with Lee Blackett as attack coach I'll be annoyed!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Who do you think potential options are?

I would say maybe he's getting the old gang back together but Edwards has renewed with France and I doubt McBryde would sack in the Leinster job for what is essentially a 6ish month contract with Wales

If you end up with Lee Blackett as attack coach I'll be annoyed!

Gustard has been linked by WOL so probably ****** but not really heard anyone else other than him and Tandy who's not going to leave Scotland you would've thought.

Attack wise I've only heard Howley which is worrying but we'll find out soon enough.