Welsh squad under Gatland

[Welsh Exile]

Who do you think potential options are?

I would say maybe he's getting the old gang back together but Edwards has renewed with France and I doubt McBryde would sack in the Leinster job for what is essentially a 6ish month contract with Wales

If you end up with Lee Blackett as attack coach I'll be annoyed!

Gustard favourite now but apparently Forshaw in the mix as well.

WRU higher ups not so keen on Howley either so maybe that's not the sure thing I thought it would be.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

About a week. So uninspiring but I guess it's all short term thinking really, despite what the WRU say.

To be fair, watching our attack under Jones/Pivac Howley doesn't seem so bad. I'm surprised Humphreys has stayed but maybe that was more to do with not being able to get Mcbryde? If I had to pick a coach that was staying I would've guessed it would be Gethin Jenkins but shows what I know.

I wish I could screenshot this and send it to past you.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

apparently Forshaw in the mix as well.

Eff oooooooffffffffffffffff

 

[dullonien]

I don't think it's a bad thing that Gatland needs to put together a new coaching group, new ideas and all that. Wasn't keen at all at the thought of Howley returning as attack coach, given our lackluster attack during most of Gatland's previous tenure.

Sounds like Jonathan Thomas will be joining as a skills coach, Mark Jones as attack coach and Gustard as defense coach; all of which I'd be content with, even if I'd love some higher profile options.

I'm not sure how Humphries has survived as forwards coach though, as all aspecs of our forwards play have been a up and down over the past few years.

 

[Scotty]

Ross Moriarty: Dragons number eight claims 13-year-old cousin abused at Scarlets match - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64175044

Didnt know where to post this but sad to hear. Verbal abuse is not ok in rugby but at a 13 year old is just pathetic.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Yeah 13 years old. If you're a fully grown man screaming at a 13 year old girl then you probably need to talk to someone.

 

[HamJan]

Yeah 13 years old. If you're a fully grown man screaming at a 13 year old girl then you probably need to talk to someone.

I suggest that he talks to her uncle Ross.

 

[dullonien]

Based on the Christmas derbies this would be my side to face Ireland in the chapionship opener:

01 Rhys Carre
02 Dewi Lake
03 Thomas Francis
04 Christ Tshiunza
05 Rhys Davies
06 Jac Morgan
07 Justin Tipuric
08 Taulupe Faletau

09 Tomos Williams
10 Jarrod Evans
11 LRZ
12 Joe Hawkins
13 Grorge North
14 Rio Dyer
15 Josh Adams

16 Ken Owens
17 Nicky Smith
18 Dillon Lewis / Willgriff John
19 AWJ
20 Ross Moriarty
21 Dane Blacker
22 Dan Biggar
23 Nick Tompkins

We need more carrying grunt in the tight 5, so I'd start with Carre, Lake and Rhys Davies. Carre's scrummaging has improved hugely lately, so isn't the liability he once was in that area. Beard will likely be involved, but I'd prefer if he wasn't. I was tempted with Dafydd Jenkins on thr bench, but decided for experience instead, same goes for Owens over Bradley Roberts at hooker.

Whilst there's a lot of competition in the backrow, this trio that started v Aus are a good bet. Tips wasn't at his very best during the Autumn after a long injury lay off, but he's back to his best now. Can't underestimate his importance in the lineout either, something none of his rivals offer.

Jarrod has been the form 10 lately, he has the ability to bring the players outside him into the game like no-one else. His goal kicking has been excellent too. Pair him with a second kicking option and another distributor at 12 in Hawkins and we could have something special on our hands. 13 is tricky, North hasn't played lately, but it's too soon for some of the other options like Grady. Is Tompkins a 13?

In the back 3 Liam Williams could come back in at 15, but he keeps picking up knocks. LRZ is an ijury worry, but starts if fit, especially with Jarrod's ability to put him into space.

I expect Gatland to go for a more conservative selection with the likes of Beard, AWJ, Biggar, Liam/Halfpenny involved, but I'd like to see the side freshened-up with the hope they can rejuvinate us in time for the WC in a similar way to what Gatland did prior to the 2011 WC where he brought youngsters like Warburton, Lydiate, Faletau, Priestland, Halfpenny, Foxy, North in relatively late.

 

[Welsh Exile]

You know I'm with you 100% on Jarrod Evans but goal kicking is a bit of a worry.

 

[dullonien]

You know I'm with you 100% on Jarrod Evans but goal kicking is a bit of a worry.

I know we've been blessed with some world class goal kickers over the last decade with Halfpenny and Biggar, but Jarrod is more than decent, and has improved a lot recently. He retained the kicking duties when Priestland came on yesterday so Young must trust him. Hawkins can kick too, kicked well for the U20's, so there's always a backup there.

Kieran Williams could be interesting outside Jarrod too...

 

[Welsh Exile]

Apparently LRZ is targeting the England game. Shame if he does miss the Ireland and Scotland matches. WOL say that will open the door for cuthbert or Dyer but the exciting thing is we have no idea what he'll do really. Knowing Gats they'll be at least 2 or 3 surprise incisions in the squad next week. He liked Owen Lane, might see him in or he might go for a more experienced back 3 or Halfpenny Williams and Adams.

Anyine know when he announces the squad?

 

[dullonien]

Think I read that it was between the two European games coming up. So in 10 or so days time.

Shame about LRZ. For me Adams and Dyer should be nailed on to start, then maybe it's a battle between the 3 old experienced options (Sanjay, Cuthbert, Halfpenny) for the final spot in the starting IV.

I'd like to see Adams given a run at fullback regardless of whether Sanjay/Halfpenny are playing. I don't think we can rely on either for the wc given their age and injury records recently, so we need an alternative ready.

As for other back three options, there's Conbeer who's shown the most consistent form over the past couple of seasons. Lane who Gat's liked for his size but hasn't progressed. Hewitt is a good all-round player who's finally back playing after a few injury ravaged seasons. Giles is a force going forwards but there's serious question marks surrounding his aerial game after being exposed badly a few weeks ago. McNickoll could also be an option if needed. Cobango is probably one for the future, but full of promise. O'Brien has been stood down by the Dragons after a couple of head knocks, but he's been a revelation for the Dragons this season, excellent kicking game.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'd like to see Conbeer have a crack but then same for Giles or Ashton Hewitt either to be honest.

12 is really interesting and the hardest prediction to make. You get the feeling tnat Tompkins won't be a Gatland kind of player but I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the squad. I do think Kieran Williams has played himself into the squad with his last 3 games and I think Johnny Williams would be right up Gatlands street but he's injured so….

Owen Watkin again is injured so it really opens the door for someone. Would absolutely love to see Kieran Williams start against Ireland.

 

[dullonien]

Not a fan of Warkin personally, decent defensive player, but offers very little going forwards. Tompkins was one of the better performers under Pivac and he's playing well for Sarries, but I think there are alternatives who offer more. Those alternatives being Kieran Williams, Hawkins and Owen Williams.

I'd love to see Kieran Williams given a go too, but not convinced he and North would make a good pairing as neither are distributors or offer a kicking game. Don't think they've played together in the centre for the Ospreys either to help judge. Still, Williams deserves a shot this 6N and would certainly cause defenses issues.

I thought Hawkins was a revelation v Aus, an all-round 12 who can distribute and kick, but is big enough to truck it up if needed. The issue for him is that he's battling for the same 12 shirt at the Ospreys as Kieran Williams, and lately Williams has been given the nod.

Owen Williams has been playing 10 for Ospreys, but he's physical enough to shift over to 12, and like Hawkins could offer us a real distributor and second kicking option in the role. That could really add another dimension to our attacking game, the likes we haven't had since the orange one was around!

Has me thinking if Kieran Williams could be shifted across one to 13 to play alongside a distributor at 12 and we get the best of both worlds? North had a good AI defensively, but he didn't set the world alight in attack. He's still a handful for defenses, but I wonder if he's lost half a yard of pace which has taken the edge off his effectiveness?

 

[Reiser99]

I was thinking about this squad compared with Wales from the last decade. How many truly world class players or players who are one of the best in the world does Wales have (btw I could easily ask this about England too)?

For me world class players not only do a bit of magic or something special, but play consistently well week in week out. Example: Dupont's bad games he still plays better than most other scrum halves.

I'm just struggling to think of any really class players that Wales have who can perform reliably week in week out and this might be an issue for Gatland because previously he had some players like Warburton and Faletau in their primes etc...

 

[Welsh Exile]

I was thinking about this squad compared with Wales from the last decade. How many truly world class players or players who are one of the best in the world does Wales have (btw I could easily ask this about England too)?

For me world class players not only do a bit of magic or something special, but play consistently well week in week out. Example: Dupont's bad games he still plays better than most other scrum halves.

I'm just struggling to think of any really class players that Wales have who can perform reliably week in week out and this might be an issue for Gatland because previously he had some players like Warburton and Faletau in their primes etc...

You don't need a team littered with world class players. You need to create a team that's more than the sum of its parts to get it to compete. We have plenty of very promising young players coming through like Lake and Morgan but for me we still have world class operators like Tipuric, Faletua, LRZ and then other players who have world class facets to their game like Adams and his finishing ability and Biggar and his defence/high ball. Just my opinion obviously.

 

[BPM]

I agree that creating 'a team that's more than the sum of its parts is he key' (one of my biggest frustrations with England is that Eddie Jones seemed to achieve he exact opposition since 2019).

I think the point @Reiser99 was trying to make though was that this is a weaker Welsh squad than those we would have seen for much of the last decade. Previously, there would have been 4 or 5 players who might have been considered 'world class' at points in time. Now? Not so much. Tipuric and Faleatau are still top, top players who are capable of world class performances, but they're both very much at the tail end of the careers. LRZ, might become 'world class', but I'm not totally convinced he's there yet. Beyond that, I'm not sure anyone else is really in contention to be at that level? It's all subjective of course, but it does feel like a bit of a drop off in overall quality.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I agree that creating 'a team that's more than the sum of its parts is he key' (one of my biggest frustrations with England is that Eddie Jones seemed to achieve he exact opposition since 2019).

I think the point @Reiser99 was trying to make though was that this is a weaker Welsh squad than those we would have seen for much of the last decade. Previously, there would have been 4 or 5 players who might have been considered 'world class' at points in time. Now? Not so much. Tipuric and Faleatau are still top, top players who are capable of world class performances, but they're both very much at the tail end of the careers. LRZ, might become 'world class', but I'm not totally convinced he's there yet. Beyond that, I'm not sure anyone else is really in contention to be at that level? It's all subjective of course, but it does feel like a bit of a drop off in overall quality.

Yeah, I don't really disagree with what he's saying, back in the day we had 2 of best best props in the world and more world class players you could argue, although you could argue that your Warburtons, Faletau's, Jon Davies' and other young players were still unproven and didn't become truly world class until a few years later which you could argue is a similar position we are in now with players like Lake, Morgan, Tshiunza etc.

But yeah, it's a fair point which is why I led with the creating a team more than the sum of its parts point. How many Welsh sides have had world class players throughout the team anyway?

I mention Tipuric and Faletau as I agree with @Reiser99 definition of consistency and I think those 2 fit the bill. They're not at Owens or AWJ's age bracket yet either. But generally im happy with a a few world class players and then a lot of very very good international level players which we have. Our problem recently has been keeping players fit and playing regular rugby so you see players form drop off like Liam Williams who was world class but due to lack of playing time has dropped off. If we can get most of our squad fit and then keep on bringing through your Lakes, Tshiunza, Daf Jenkins, Morgan's, Reffell, Bashams etc then I'll be very happy. Obviously this WC will be too soon for us given the mess over the last year or so but 9 months is a long in rugby so who knows but 2027 could be better for us but I agree,
You do get the feeling that 2011 was a bit of a golden gen for us

 

[Welsh Exile]

Thomas Young ruled out. Unlikely he would've made the squad but feel so sorry for the guy. Really talented player who I would've loved to get more caps but competition is so tough at 7. 30 years old now so kinda last chance saloon for him. Shame. Hope he recovers well and see him back on the pitch soon.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Rumours that you're announcing Mike Forshaw as defence coach today,

Big blow for us but very pleased for him - though would rather he wasn't going to Wales as he's genuinely an incredible defence coach
Defence has been one of our key features since he arrived - think this season we've conceded 5 fewer tries than next best and 10(?) fewer than third