Aviva Stadium

[psychic duck]

Croke Park did a good enough job and had bigger crowds. Why didn't Ireland just move there full time? Were Irish taxpayers pleased to be paying for a large redevelopment when they could have kept on at Croke Park without such large expense?

The only logic behind it I see is the history of the Lansdowne Road. But other than that sentimental factor, surely the Irish taxpayer would have got a better deal staying at Croke Park? Not least as they might have avoided that farce of a price hike in tickets.

 

[Draggs]

Probably EU money. Celtic tiger and all.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

the aviva stadium is a great stadium thats why they play there

 

[Getofmeland]

Croke park is not owned by the taxpayer it is owned by the GAA which is an amateur body. Also there is a huge split in opinion about whether Rugby should of been played there in the first place, especially the English!

 

[Maverick1987]

Croke park is not owned by the taxpayer it is owned by the GAA which is an amateur body. Also there is a huge split in opinion about whether Rugby should of been played there in the first place, especially the English!

I've not met any englishmen that don't want it been played there ?

I've not been myself but have heard lots of good things about Croke park from people who went there in the few year it was there .

Other than the results obviously lol

 

[lynam1104]

I've not met any englishmen that don't want it been played there ?

I've not been myself but have heard lots of good things about Croke park from people who went there in the few year it was there .

Other than the results obviously lol

It's not the english who don't/didn't want rugby there it's the GAA bloody sunday and al that.

The Aviva is stadium with great facilities and pretty much every seat i've had there has been good. There are some glaring issues though, firstly mini stand probably knocks 10s of thousands of seats off as dose that media area. Also the pitch can get a bit crap at times.

 

[Peat]

The long term effect on the balance sheet of renting out Croke Park for every game vs. keeping all the ticket monies plus being able to use the stadium for non-rugby events is probably pretty sodding huge. Even if a proportion of that money is currently going to the FAI. At least that means the FAI are paying their share of the loan repayments - which probably means the Irish taxpayer didn't pay for it after all.

 

[Largejanner]

It's not the english who don't/didn't want rugby there it's the GAA bloody sunday and al that.

Yeah, the 'hallowed ground' story was the one peddled at the time over here I think, I seem to recall also that to the purists at the GAA, rugby is seen as having colonial overtones.
Great looking ground Croke Park though.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Croke Park was a terrible stadium for rugby as fans were too far from the pitch.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It would be like England playing in Wembley instead of Twickenham. I've heard that the IRFU are buying up the properties behind the small stand to allow them to build it up, not sure if its true but I was told by an estate agent so that might be something.

 

[psychic duck]

The long term effect on the balance sheet of renting out Croke Park for every game vs. keeping all the ticket monies plus being able to use the stadium for non-rugby events is probably pretty sodding huge. Even if a proportion of that money is currently going to the FAI. At least that means the FAI are paying their share of the loan repayments - which probably means the Irish taxpayer didn't pay for it after all.

The Irish taxpayer paid just under 200 million to redevelop the ground. Roughly half of the 400 million redevelopment. As a result there was a 20% price hike in tickets for fans. Considering that the taxpayer paid a lot for a redevelopment, that doesn't seem great value for your average fan.

Croke Park may have had big renting costs, but it got an extra 30,000 seats and for a country in economic difficulty I would have thought there would be more prudent use of stadia instead of giving the go ahead for 400 million + redevelopment and a big price rise in tickets during a recession.

Also what exactly did the IRFU/FIA even do to the stadium to make the upgrade worth it? It doesn't have that much more capacity or anything. What were the glaring problems with the old stadium that it needed to be totally rehauled?

 

[Peat]

While I am no economist, and may be wrong, I'd have thought spending 200m to generate 400m worth of economic activity with the end product of increased employment and a second big events venue for the city represents a fair enough deal for the Irish taxpayer, particularly as many of them would be ok with giving the Irish football and rugby team a leg up. Whether EUR400m is a fair deal for a 50,000 seater I don't know, although considering we paid GBP790m for Wembley, it could have been worse.

 

[big ginger 8]

Yeah, the 'hallowed ground' story was the one peddled at the time over here I think, I seem to recall also that to the purists at the GAA, rugby is seen as having colonial overtones.
Great looking ground Croke Park though.

In fairness the likes of the GAA have long memories and Bloody Sunday would be a bigger reason than simply saying it's hallowed ground.

Also what exactly did the IRFU/FIA even do to the stadium to make the upgrade worth it? It doesn't have that much more capacity or anything. What were the glaring problems with the old stadium that it needed to be totally rehauled?

Terracing was gotten rid of so that it's an all seater, facilities far fans are better more toilets and kitchens on sites. Warming up facilities are also better as are the changing rooms and media room I believe.

 

[LittleGuy]

While I am no economist, and may be wrong, I'd have thought spending 200m to generate 400m worth of economic activity with the end product of increased employment and a second big events venue for the city represents a fair enough deal for the Irish taxpayer, particularly as many of them would be ok with giving the Irish football and rugby team a leg up. Whether EUR400m is a fair deal for a 50,000 seater I don't know, although considering we paid GBP790m for Wembley, it could have been worse.

It's not an awful deal, but it's very hard to say on these things and don't let a politician tell you otherwise with outright certainty how many "jobs they've saved/created" when they announce a government funded project or bailout. The flaw with those kinds of statements is they don't know what the money they spent could have otherwise gone to, who knows how much that 200 Million could have done if it had been spent on someting else, or simply been left in the hands of Irish Citizens, it's possible the money not spent on the Stadium could have generated much more than 400M dollars of growth...or possibly less.

What people should do though is take with a grain of salt the projections that the proponents of these kinds of projects tout out when they want someone else's cash they are merely giving you a thing that ou can "see: but take into account that momney spent on their idea's could be used for other things.

 

[Fingal]

It's not the english who don't/didn't want rugby there it's the GAA bloody sunday and al that.

It was only the Nordies and some nutcase from Cork that was against it. I heard the GAA would take them back tomorrow. All that rent money is sorely missed when you have County Boards going yearly into the red funding teams then looking at Croker to bail them out. Kildare & Galway are a disaster. And then before that they all had a mad spell overhauling county grounds that have **** all games in them and expecting Croker to send down a couple of million to help them along.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/gaa-to-probe-club-spending-29843857.html

Now today some fellow wants to build a centre of excellence for GAA in Roscommon/Westmeath. Louth have one, Tyrone too so of course they all need one now or share it between two of the smaller counties.

Back to Croker, the GAA own the hotel beside it so 6 Nations games in Croker would also boost business there too. In a sensible world, France & England & maybe Wales games should be played at Croker, AFAIK they bring the most away support and Scotland & Italy should be in the Aviva. But this isn't a sensible world so Ireland plays at the lowest capacity stadium in the 6 Nations.

The Aviva is stadium with great facilities and pretty much every seat i've had there has been good. There are some glaring issues though, firstly mini stand probably knocks 10s of thousands of seats off as dose that media area. Also the pitch can get a bit crap at times.

The mini stand is probably the only reason the pitch is holding up at all. New stadiums with high stands aren't really all that good for pitches, reduced air flow and sun.. Once the Millenium Stadium trials the artificial pitch I expect the IRFU to get one too. Relaying pitches isn't too cheap.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

The Irish taxpayer paid just under 200 million to redevelop the ground. Roughly half of the 400 million redevelopment. As a result there was a 20% price hike in tickets for fans. Considering that the taxpayer paid a lot for a redevelopment, that doesn't seem great value for your average fan.

I'm pretty sure that's been reversed. Fans boycotted the November tests a couple of years ago as a result of the price increases due and the result was 1/3 empty stands. The IRFU reneged and brought the prices way down.