i just read this this morning: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29171981
i dont see why he would do that after a successful career in rugby
i dont see why he would do that after a successful career in rugby
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Gareth Thomas was close to suicide
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Changed the title to more accurately reflect article.
thanks draggs
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I do not usually subscribe to our new world order, tolerating and accepting absolutely everything, being 21st century hippies, so on...someone once said "keep an open mind but not too open, your brain might fall out" and it's not just a cool formulation, its meaning is very viable and relevant to actual life.
But for a man to be a certain way, and have to hide it. That alone is ridiculous, and I never thought I'd see myself make such comments, but although I'm not for the constant portraying and recent glorification of the gay lifestyle everywhere, all the time, being shoved down my throat I *have to* think a certain way and accept all things of our time; Thomas must've suffered torrents of pain and suffering just because, again, he was born a certain way and couldn't just be that way. That's like being born tall and short at the same time, or simply a fish out of water. It's a paradox, an existential paradox. And especially in the world of Rugby where you have to be overly manly, way more than it is natural to be, and overzealous with virility and hardness and all, he must've heard in the locker rooms constantly anti-gay slur or things in that tendency.
How many stories have we heard about that, the gay athlete malaise...
For me though, people and the media overreact to that tremendously also. You just call someone "effeminate" and ppl would have your head for it. There's a titanic difference between real, intelligent sensitivity, taking people's real feelings and desires into account; and then becoming a cardboard self-righteous pseudo-moralistic bigot motherfu...well, yeah. Just, bigot.
But for a man to be a certain way, and have to hide it. That alone is ridiculous, and I never thought I'd see myself make such comments, but although I'm not for the constant portraying and recent glorification of the gay lifestyle everywhere, all the time, being shoved down my throat I *have to* think a certain way and accept all things of our time; Thomas must've suffered torrents of pain and suffering just because, again, he was born a certain way and couldn't just be that way. That's like being born tall and short at the same time, or simply a fish out of water. It's a paradox, an existential paradox. And especially in the world of Rugby where you have to be overly manly, way more than it is natural to be, and overzealous with virility and hardness and all, he must've heard in the locker rooms constantly anti-gay slur or things in that tendency.
How many stories have we heard about that, the gay athlete malaise...
For me though, people and the media overreact to that tremendously also. You just call someone "effeminate" and ppl would have your head for it. There's a titanic difference between real, intelligent sensitivity, taking people's real feelings and desires into account; and then becoming a cardboard self-righteous pseudo-moralistic bigot motherfu...well, yeah. Just, bigot.
You're talking about things being shoved down our throats.. yet nearly all (note nearly before taking me out of context) homophobia directly stems from religious doctrine. Nice logic.
Big Ewis
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I disagree with that. You're overestimating the human species as you say that, because it implies Man is intelligent enough, through its most common people, masses, to make an intellectual/moral judgment against the gays. Men just naturally have a hard time, well...a *difficult* time with the gays because they are opposite of everything we strive to be. Rigid, hard, strong, female-hunting, stinky...etc...
It's more of a basic instinct to persecute gay people.
While yes you are right for e.g. in the Muslim world, it is very much due to religious belief, but that religious belief itself is very, very different from ours in the West and possesses its own properties and mechanics. In the West, men are anti-gay not because they're religious people for the most, but because it's an instinctive repulsion. Watching gay porn can be traumatic for some, disturbing or at very least cringe-worthy, and it is not an act. It is spontaneous reaction.
And the big difference between "being shoved down our throats" religious beliefs versus our 21st century unified mode of thought (in the West at least), is that the first only exists in extreme cases (rural, underdeveloped or downright amongst 'illuminated' individuals with pathological profiles and traces) while the other exists as a vast majority within "open-minded" people, lots/most of which the youth.
Yes, it may be an instinct to *some* people because of the thousands of years of social engineering of religious dogma that includes homophobia. But not to most people, the only people I have ever met in life who are homophobic are religious.
To say they are the opposite of everything we strive to be is just so wrong, you're just stereotyping. It completely is not instinct to persecute gay people - at least to people who either a) don't follow religious doctrine or b) pick and choose their way around it to comply with society.
It's a problem in the Muslim world yes, but also in a lot of Christian nations. Especially in the south of the US as a good example - there's video's of people trying to come out to their parents but then completely disowning them and using horrible language because it goes against their faith. That is religion my friend, beat around the bush all you want, but I'm not letting get away with 'it's just Islam is bad not Christianity'.
If telling a child that they will burn in hell for eternity isn't 'shoved down their throats', then I don't know what is. That's verging on mental child abuse. I don't know what you mean by unified mode of thought because religion is anything but unified. Even denominations of different religions can't agree with eachother which in turn causes violence, for example Shia' and Sunni muslims, Catholics and Protestants (especially in my own country).
Edit: Just gonna throw this quote in to stir it up... "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things, but for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg.
To say they are the opposite of everything we strive to be is just so wrong, you're just stereotyping. It completely is not instinct to persecute gay people - at least to people who either a) don't follow religious doctrine or b) pick and choose their way around it to comply with society.
It's a problem in the Muslim world yes, but also in a lot of Christian nations. Especially in the south of the US as a good example - there's video's of people trying to come out to their parents but then completely disowning them and using horrible language because it goes against their faith. That is religion my friend, beat around the bush all you want, but I'm not letting get away with 'it's just Islam is bad not Christianity'.
If telling a child that they will burn in hell for eternity isn't 'shoved down their throats', then I don't know what is. That's verging on mental child abuse. I don't know what you mean by unified mode of thought because religion is anything but unified. Even denominations of different religions can't agree with eachother which in turn causes violence, for example Shia' and Sunni muslims, Catholics and Protestants (especially in my own country).
Edit: Just gonna throw this quote in to stir it up... "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things, but for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg.
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Just to go completely off topic, I don't agree with that statement or your one above about homophobia being down to religion. There's always going to be bigots no matter what of course some people do bad things in the name of religion but it's the same with things like politics. Communism isn't innately evil but look what happened in the USSR. Basically I'm trying to say that blaming religion alone is pretty much a cop out imo.
This. Religion is often something people use as an excuse to fight and go to war, but if reliion didn't exist, people would simply find another reason. ****, if people can use a largely loving doctrine which preaches compassion and a lack of judgement to go to war, they'll use anything.
Big Ewis
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lol
anyways, I feel for Thomas and it's good articles like those are coming out to help ppl, not necessarily athletes, in similar situations, hostages in prison, and show them officially that this kind of crap exists and yeah some ppl even attempted to end it all just like 'you'. This isn't over-dramatization as usual, this is real pain over the course of an entire lifetime, day in day out, every day, every moment awake or asleep. Good on Thomas.
anyways, I feel for Thomas and it's good articles like those are coming out to help ppl, not necessarily athletes, in similar situations, hostages in prison, and show them officially that this kind of crap exists and yeah some ppl even attempted to end it all just like 'you'. This isn't over-dramatization as usual, this is real pain over the course of an entire lifetime, day in day out, every day, every moment awake or asleep. Good on Thomas.
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I didn't say all of homophobia is down to religion, but a very large part of it is. I even emphasized I said nearly all, but not all. There is nothing unnatural about being gay, it's all over the animal kingdom, so where does the prejudice come from?
Yeah well those "some" people have a massive effect, look what's happening in Iraq with Islamic State - crucifying people on the streets, forcing people to convert to Islam or be beheaded, and when they do convert they just behead them anyway. That is disgusting. The suicide bombing community is entirely faith based. The genital mutilation community is entirely faith based. Religious divides are everywhere in the world, especially in the very own Island we live on BG8.
Yeah, I'm not saying there would be peace without religion. But I do believe there would be a lot less problems without it.
Largely..... Jesus was fairly sound. God's a bit of a bellend in the old testament though.
Quote from Dawkins, bit of a mouth full!
[h=1]“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”[/h]
He iced Moses for smacking a rock with a stick. What a messer!
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Actually, whatever you're probably right, I don't care that much I guess. Haven't actually read the bible through. Maintain it's not what caused wars, but we've strayed from that a bit.
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I know what you're saying and I agree to a small extent - some people just use it as a means to justify themselves, but I feel they are in the vast minority.
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Was Dawkins talking about himself there?
I would be close to suicide if I woke up one morning gay and had to cope with dressing in fashion, using male grooming products and generally being more hip and cool than the 39 year old ex squddie wreck I happen to be. Change at my age would hurt too much.
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