[RWC2019][Pool B] Round 1 - New Zealand vs. South Africa (21/09/2019)

[Zapphod]

Honestly I just thought Garces was bad all round and no team really benefited. You could spend hours analysing every decision and find something to suit the narrative you want. I honestly don't see the point. It's WR's job to hold refs to account and hopefully they will.

While I agree with that problems arise when a decision is made that costs a team the game.

In competitions like this where every game has an influence on the tournaments result it is much harder to shrug off a loss from a bad decision, who cares if a referee is stood down or punished for a bad call when the team that lost is packing their bags to go home.

 

[ncurd]

Honestly I just thought Garces was bad all round and no team really benefited. You could spend hours analysing every decision and find something to suit the narrative you want. I honestly don't see the point. It's WR's job to hold refs to account and hopefully they will.

No point talking sense multiple of said this but AB fans having one great big circle jerk. Normal stuff.

Garces was shite(nothing new there), the correct team won, only thing to really argue over is making sure foul play gets sorted properly.

But I suppose we have to give a **** about simulation not being yellow carded even though I've never seen that given in Rugby beyond a stern ticking off by the ref.

 

[Icemn]

this is hard to overlook

Can i please ask this SAFFA to make a video like this on all other games? Not just the ones they lose... This makes it seem as if only they are conspired against, meanwhile it happens all the time...

 

[Larksea]

@Geralt_ you can track and dislike my 700 post still I'll think the all blacks got away with 2 red cards.
the where bad calls both ways
IMO the ones that went your way where more significant.
I saI'd I can understand an off side being overlooked but don't understand how the tmo didn't call moody shoulder charge! nor he has been cited (w r is ajoke) but the did call Moroni jaj
@Larksea
I mentioned I don't think it's a foul play. and the tmo did rewiew the play and still didn't call yellow. think that like me, thought that he attempted a legal action to finnaly commit the penalty. and that 's why he didn't award a yellow
you call me biased when I'm not even from SA I'm clearly not biased. you are if you don't admit that the shoulder charge was red for anybody else and read was at least yellow ( I'm opinion red) foul play.
the elbows and knock on on the video are less important.
I just want 1 kiwi to admit yes moody should have been red carded. and read. we got away. you cannot.

Its not "foul play" its a cynical penalty right on the try line after a long breakout preventing a try and an instant yellow card. If there is a 50m break and the defender commits a penalty right on the try line to stop it that's a yellow card every time. Admit it.
You don't need to be from SA to be bias against the AB's. Bias would be only seeing the problems affecting only one team and not acknowledging issues from both sides. I'm perfectly happy to admit bad ref calls affected both teams.
And still so far no one is even attempted to acknowledge or defend the massive deliberate offside in the 46 min preventing an AB 4 on 0 overlap breakout and resulting in the springboks only try. And I'll tell you what, I'll have a look at the shoulder if you have a look at eben etzebeth putting a guillotine choke on Sam Whitelock, the high shots and neck rolls there have been against AB's including ALB & Savea or go back and check out Brodie Retalick being injured out of most of the WC by an illegal clean-out in the previous game where nothing was done. Or any number of the other similar incidents missed against all black players. There has been a crap load of contact in the red card territory in tests this year from many sides, just shear dumb luck the only one that has been picked out was against Scott Barrett.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

They looked very hard at Manu hitting someone's lower shoulder area

I remember the comments on that by the commentators during the game were weird to say the least. Essentially they said Tuilagi needs to be careful because if the player had fallen, he could have hit him in the head. I mean what sort of ridiculous comment is that? This legal tackle could have been illegal if something that didn't happen did happen. These same people then defended the Tongan no arms on Vunipola and the shot on Watson whilst ignoring multiple neck rolls on English players. It's ridiculous.

As for Garces, he doesn't have the nickname "farces" for nothing, he is just an utterly shite ref. However Read's clothesline was so ridiculously blatant and unquestionably foul play that letting it go really was unacceptable.

 

[petite]

Its not "foul play" its a cynical penalty right on the try line after a long breakout preventing a try and an instant yellow card. If there is a 50m break and the defender commits a penalty right on the try line to stop it that's a yellow card every time. Admit it.
You don't need to be from SA to be bias against the AB's. And still so far no one is even attempted to acknowledge or defend the massive deliberate offside in the 46 min preventing an AB 4 on 0 overlap breakout and resulting in the springboks only try. And I'll tell you what, I'll have a look at the shoulder if you have a look at eben etzebeth putting a guillotine choke on Sam Whitelock, the high shots and neck rolls there have been against AB's including ALB & Savea or go back and check out Brodie Retalick being injured out of most of the WC by an illegal clean-out in the previous game where nothing was done. Or any number of the other similar incidents missed against all black players. There has been a crap load of contact in the red card territory in tests this year from many sides, just shear dumb luck the only one that has been picked out was against Scott Barrett.

Imo the diference will be that there is no interpretation in moody's action: shoulder no arms strait in the head. (red card)
in moungas event theres the interpretation weather he releases after the takle or not
you are right that the call is not consistent if penalty why not yellow argument is valid.
but still the tmo took action.
Moody should been cited (if nobody saw the action in the field) he wasnt)
the neck roll existed but I've seen 200 of those as you say. Moody's actions where criminal.
never said the ref didn't get it wrong both way's I'm saying those two read and moody where too big to miss and should have been cited after the game. and instead of attacking me and call me biased or anti all black wich I'm not. you could act like men and rekon when your players get away with it.

 

[Zapphod]

Imo the diference will be that there is no interpretation in moody's action: shoulder no arms strait in the head. (red card)
in moungas event theres the interpretation weather he releases after the takle or not
you are right that the call is not consistent if penalty why not yellow argument is valid.
but still the tmo took action.
Moody should been cited (if nobody saw the action in the field) he wasnt)
the neck roll existed but I've seen 200 of those as you say. Moody's actions where criminal.
never said the ref didn't get it wrong both way's I'm saying those two read and moody where too big to miss and should have been cited after the game. and instead of attacking me and call me biased or anti all black wich I'm not. you could act like men and rekon when your players get away with it.

Great now you are a victim, I assume you are currently laying on the floor next to your computer grasping your knee and appealing to a ref?

I assume you don't see eye gouging and biting claims in French win over Argentina as important enough to be defending in that thread?

I will be honest I would take your opinion and "feelings" more seriously if you didn't constantly down play everything that happened to the ABs while turning everything the ABs did into a federal case (which you did by describing Moody's actions as "criminal").

The reality is you aren't in this thread to add anything positive but rather to vilify the ABs and stir up AB supporters or in other words trolling.

 

[petite]

Great now you are a victim, I assume you are currently laying on the floor next to your computer grasping your knee and appealing to a ref?

I assume you don't see eye gouging and biting claims in French win over Argentina as important enough to be defending in that thread?

I will be honest I would take your opinion and "feelings" more seriously if you didn't constantly down play everything that happened to the ABs while turning everything the ABs did into a federal case (which you did by describing Moody's actions as "criminal").

The reality is you aren't in this thread to add anything positive but rather to vilify the ABs and stir up AB supporters or in other words trolling.

whatever

 

[mania]

Yes, keep calm and win the remaining pool matches. Ireland are far more clinical and disciplined than the Boks, and will do us.

you have got to be kidding. i thought the Irish game was boring. ireland got a lead and then shut up shop and protected it. that isnt how youre gonna beat the ABs, or for that matter the boks.
the boks played awesome and there were fine margins in this game. had boks gotten a lead and put on scoreboard pressure then this game would've been very different.
boks to beat the irish in the QFs

 

[mania]

this is hard to overlook

haha awesome footage. but it was worse than that. i dont think moody scrummed straight all night. tuugafasi did the same thing when he came. i love spiderCam, gives an awesome view of the scrum.
ABs got away with a bit this game, though i didnt realise it until everyone started microanalysing the game.
cool as. swings and round abouts. sometimes the refs favours us and tohers theyre against us. hakuna matata
really at the end of the day, the team that played a little better on the day wonit was an epic match and couldve goe either way. boks are on fire and i feel sorry for the irish when they meet up. boks will be p!ssed off and on fire.

 

[Geralt_]

Ireland vs South Africa will be a monumental fixture, can't wait to watch that.

 

[petite]

haha awesome footage. but it was worse than that. i dont think moody scrummed straight all night. tuugafasi did the same thing when he came. i love spiderCam, gives an awesome view of the scrum.
ABs got away with a bit this game, though i didnt realise it until everyone started microanalysing the game.
cool as. swings and round abouts. sometimes the refs favours us and tohers theyre against us. hakuna matata
really at the end of the day, the team that played a little better on the day wonit was an epic match and couldve goe either way. boks are on fire and i feel sorry for the irish when they meet up. boks will be p!ssed off and on fire.

well that's the kind of honesty i was looking for. rare in this forum.
actually no big deal in an scenario of bad reffering abs got the best part.
your fellow countrymen can't accept that
they keep on disliking, calling me biased and talking about the France arg game, in front of clear evidence. good for you.

 

[mania]

well that's the kind of honesty i was looking for. rare in this forum.
actually no big deal in an scenario of bad reffering abs got the best part.
your fellow countrymen can't accept that
they keep on disliking, calling me biased and talking about the France arg game, in front of clear evidence. good for you.

u need not to take all this sht so personally. sometimes ABs get screwed and sometimes its the oppn. swings and round abouts
lets not let all this post game analysis distract us from the fact that it was an awesome game

 

[petite]

u need not to take all this sht so personally. sometimes ABs get screwed and sometimes its the oppn. swings and round abouts
lets not let all this post game analysis distract us from the fact that it was an awesome game

I agree and I'll be the first to call it when the time comes.

 

[Geralt_]

well that's the kind of honesty i was looking for. rare in this forum.
actually no big deal in an scenario of bad reffering abs got the best part.
your fellow countrymen can't accept that
they keep on disliking, calling me biased and talking about the France arg game, in front of clear evidence. good for you.

You posted a salty one-eyed video and try to claim you weren't biased.

You're a joke.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

dangerous tackles, off the ball play et al.....fair play, have a go

when we start listing all the time a props elbow went down, regardless of how the ball was played...thats where our game will fall over, yes its a rule....but the rule is obviously design to describe a scrum collapsing, if the ball still makes it out and play can continue then let it go...lets play rugby rather than try and find where we can impose the rules

 

[mania]

dangerous tackles, off the ball play et al.....fair play, have a go
when we start listing all the time a props elbow went down, regardless of how the ball was played...thats where our game will fall over, yes its a rule....but the rule is obviously design to describe a scrum collapsing, if the ball still makes it out and play can continue then let it go...lets play rugby rather than try and find where we can impose the rules

hate to say it, but garces got this one right. sure elbow was on the ground but the team with the feed still won the ball. resetting wouldve been dumb and a waste of precious minutes. i liked how garces let this play on.

but its real obvious now how important owenFranks is. we got positively owned in the scrums

 

[Dai Perk]

Wow, y’all LOVE to get into the serious arguments here. My far-less-experienced eyes told me:
A. These teams are remarkably close
B. The officiating impacted the play, and ultimately seemed to give both teams the freedom to do more and more (read, commit penalties), and
C. Both sides can play better than they did... but who will?

 

[Zapphod]

Wow, y’all LOVE to get into the serious arguments here. My far-less-experienced eyes told me:
A. These teams are remarkably close
B. The officiating impacted the play, and ultimately seemed to give both teams the freedom to do more and more (read, commit penalties), and
C. Both sides can play better than they did... but who will?

The funny thing is you aren't seeing arguments between South Africans and Kiwis as we pretty much agree with your comments it is between the armchair refs from countries that had no dog in the fight who seem to think their comments are important.

The important thing is that both teams clearly accept the result and have not raised anything since the game, now given that the players and coaches who were there at the time are happy you can only wonder why some English Irish and Argentinians are sitting at home googling "how to cherry pick rugby rules" feel the need to be vocal.

 

[BobbyM]

On the scrum stuff, at the time watching it live it looked like the SA lad was binding on the NZ arm, which was causing the NZ elbow to fall.

In fact in the video @petite posted you actually see the bind move from the shoulder blade area at the initial hit to the upper arm in both instances where you can see that area of the scrum. So if you want to be pedantic, in those instances should have been a penalty to NZ under 11d.