[RWC2019][Pool B] Round 1 - New Zealand vs. South Africa (21/09/2019)

[Dai Perk]

How has basic reffing gone out the window in such a big match?

As always, I'm just a noob, but even I could see a MASSIVE difference between the Jerome Garces match and every other match to that point. It was like he decided ahead of time how many times he planned to blow the whistle, and nothing in front of him could change his mind. I'm hoping Angus of Nigel will get the Final, do we already know that?

 

[ncurd]

As always, I'm just a noob, but even I could see a MASSIVE difference between the Jerome Garces match and every other match to that point. It was like he decided ahead of time how many times he planned to blow the whistle, and nothing in front of him could change his mind. I'm hoping Angus of Nigel will get the Final, do we already know that?

Both can be ruled out based on who gets there. It'll be Barnes, Gardner or Owens in that preference order I imagine. Owens has let fame go to his head and been off the boil for a number of years now and whilst I like Gardner, Barnes is the best out there currently and he retires after that match.

 

[petite]

this is hard to overlook

 

[Zapphod]

You do know games are played in real time right?
I am somewhat amused that the only people here stirring up trouble and whinging on about the result are from countries that weren't even playing.

I suspect that by half time it was obvious what the game officials were policing so the players on both sides used that to their advantage.

One thing I would like to see added as a citable offense though is trying to milk penalties with bad acting and the penalty should be a ban of as many games as the points gained or saved from it.

 

[Geralt_]

this is hard to overlook

I see they conveniently ignored the offside interception from du Toit that lead to their only try.

in fact, nearly everyone has not even mentioned or acknowledged it.

 

[petite]

You do know games are played in real time right?
I am somewhat amused that the only people here stirring up trouble and whinging on about the result are from countries that weren't even playing.


I suspect that by half time it was obvious what the game officials were policing so the players on both sides used that to their advantage.

One thing I would like to see added as a citable offense though is trying to milk penalties with bad acting and the penalty should be a ban of as many games as the points gained or saved from it.

1 so now we can only have opinions on games our country play?
2 the rules are the rules it should not be about what is being policed
3 moody 's 3 time elbow on the ground has nothing to do with real time or slo MO.
4 moody charging shoulder en etzebet on the floor ir red car imo
5 Read hold on dutoit with no ball is not even in the video is red too.
the saffas are right to complain.
6 putting a shoulder charge witch is dangerous to a players helth in the same level as trying to milk penalties is either wrong or you are talking out of anger

 

[Larksea]

this is hard to overlook

picking out all the little issues one side has with a ref without the full context of the game is pretty meaningless, firstly if you watch any game refs are not reliably giving penalties when a props arm hits the ground. Which isn't a bad thing given the rule has issues and doesn't reliably punish the team or player that collapses the scrum.
How about the blatant foul hard on defense right under the bok posts on Richie that prevented a try only getting a penalty when penalties like that are basically always an automatic yellow card. If the ref was trying to deliberately help the AB's he could have just done his job and given that a yellow card.
Or the blatantly obvious off side by PSDT to get an intercept turnover when the all blacks had a massive overlap just before the boks only try. That essentially could have been a 14 point turnaround.
And we have the media going ape **** over Read doing a seat belt at a line-out while ignoring the constant high shots on players like Savea or that at one point eben etzebeth had Whitelock in a guillotine choke.
The Ref was ****, both sides have valid complaints.

 

[petite]

I see they conveniently ignored the offside interception from du Toit that lead to their only try.

in fact, nearly everyone has not even mentioned or acknowledged it.

was about to say this is the SA side of it.
do your own vid.
but an off side that didn't make any difference in the games outcome can't be compared with more controversial and dangerous situations. in other words I can asume a reff didn't see an off side. but how come the tmo didn't see that shoulder charge? come on boys just admit you got away with 2 reds.. it's not so hard

 

[Geralt_]

was about to say this is the SA side of it.
do your own vid.
but an off side that didn't make any difference in the games outcome can't be compared with more controversial and dangerous situations. in other words I can asume a reff didn't see an off side. but how come the tmo didn't see that shoulder charge? come on boys just admit you got away with 2 reds.. it's not so hard

Actually I "did" my own post above on the matter if you can be bothered to scroll up.

Also to say it didn't make a difference on the outcome of the game is easy to say now, once the game is over! But at the time it put South Africa back into the game and it was probably the worst call of the game and reffing at the very basic level would pick up. Your view makes me question your integrity as a commentator on the game!

It's boring how one-eyed a lot of fans are, black, green or blue.

Garces was poor for both teams and missed everything.

 

[petite]

picking out all the little issues one side has with a ref without the full context of the game is pretty meaningless, firstly if you watch any game refs are not reliably giving penalties when a props arm hits the ground. Which isn't a bad thing given the rule has issues and doesn't reliably punish the team or player that collapses the scrum.
How about the blatant foul hard on defense right under the bok posts on Richie that prevented a try only getting a penalty when penalties like that are basically always an automatic yellow card. If the ref was trying to deliberately help the AB's he could have just done his job and given that a yellow card.
Or the blatantly obvious off side by PSDT to get an intercept turnover when the all blacks had a massive overlap just before the boks only try. That essentially could have been a 14 point turnaround.
And we have the media going ape **** over Read doing a seat belt at a line-out while ignoring the constant high shots on players like Savea or that at one point eben etzebeth had Whitelock in a guillotine choke.
The Ref was ****, both sides have valid complaints.

if Argentina''s prop elbow is on the ground that's automatically called penalty (seen it many times)
none of the neck rolls of the saffas was yellow or red imo.
there is a point in the play on mounga stangely the tmo did have a say and the play was chequed. imo he tackles stands up and attempts the turn over legally. was penalty but not yellow ( not blatant) as you say.

 

[petite]

man you can't say your opinion in the nz theads they jump to your neck right away.
I have no problem in admitting when the ref is hard on the opponent.
imo (in my ******* opinion) the AB got away with too much **** in this game)
didn't say it's a conspiracy
it's annoying how you can't take criticism at all.
you got away with to reds end of story.

 

[Larksea]

Also, can anyone tell me otherwise that the South African try resulted from an offside intercept of a player who failed to get back behind the advantage line? I maybe wrong, but it certainly looked like that in live motion and the live game replays were awful that they didn't want to highlight any of the referring errors from both sides. Our boys were visibility ****** off too from that intercept. I'm sure he failed to get back behind the line.

yeah I pointed that out earlier the 46th minute, its a massive passage in the game. It starts from a ruck after ALB is tackled after he broke the line returning the ball from in goal. The ball goes left and the AB's have a massive overlap, PSDT comes from behind the AB backline and intercepts the pass, being as deliberate an offside as it was and preventing the AB's from taking advantage of a massive overlap during a fast breakout that could have been a yellow card. Instead the boks scored their only try a few phases later. And it was definitely a ruck, kitsoff was on his feet going for the ball and he was cleaned out by 2 AB's. Pretty much a 14 point call. The All Blacks had a 4 on 0 overlap. and the Bok 15 was on the other side of the park, try to bridge or Savea.

 

[Zapphod]

picking out all the little issues one side has with a ref without the full context of the game is pretty meaningless, firstly if you watch any game refs are not reliably giving penalties when a props arm hits the ground. Which isn't a bad thing given the rule has issues and doesn't reliably punish the team or player that collapses the scrum.
How about the blatant foul hard on defense right under the bok posts on Richie that prevented a try only getting a penalty when penalties like that are basically always an automatic yellow card. If the ref was trying to deliberately help the AB's he could have just done his job and given that a yellow card.
Or the blatantly obvious off side by PSDT to get an intercept turnover when the all blacks had a massive overlap just before the boks only try. That essentially could have been a 14 point turnaround.
And we have the media going ape **** over Read doing a seat belt at a line-out while ignoring the constant high shots on players like Savea or that at one point eben etzebeth had Whitelock in a guillotine choke.
The Ref was ****, both sides have valid complaints.

Oh come on all the other teams are guaranteed to be canonized after the cup, only the AB's are bound for hell along with any referee that lets them win.

1 so now we can only have opinions on games our country play?
2 the rules are the rules it should not be about what is being policed
3 moody 's 3 time elbow on the ground has nothing to do with real time or slo MO.
4 moody charging shoulder en etzebet on the floor ir red car imo
5 Read hold on dutoit with no ball is not even in the video is red too.
the saffas are right to complain.
6 putting a shoulder charge witch is dangerous to a players helth in the same level as trying to milk penalties is either wrong or you are talking out of anger

No I am just talking to a fairly standard troll born of sour grapes and blind jealousy, if you cannot accept that both sides got away with foul play in that game then your opinion is too biased to be taken seriously.

As to point one, you know what they say about opinions.
Opinions are like A***holes, everyone has one and everyone thinks the other guys stinks.

 

[Larksea]

if Argentina''s prop elbow is on the ground that's automatically called penalty (seen it many times)
none of the neck rolls of the saffas was yellow or red imo.
there is a point in the play on mounga stangely the tmo did have a say and the play was chequed. imo he tackles stands up and attempts the turn over legally. was penalty but not yellow ( not blatant) as you say.

watch it again and let me know at what point he released the player. go ahead, its in the 22nd minute.
Wait, you say "attempts the turn over legally" then you say it "was penalty but not yellow"
which is it?
he never released the player, thats an automatic obvious penalty. The fact that it happened hard on defense under the posts after a fast breakout preventing a try makes it a yellow card.

 

[Geralt_]

man you can't say your opinion in the nz theads they jump to your neck right away.
I have no problem in admitting when the ref is hard on the opponent.
imo (in my ******* opinion) the AB got away with too much **** in this game)
didn't say it's a conspiracy
it's annoying how you can't take criticism at all.
you got away with to reds end of story.

Tosh mate!

We admit Garces missed a lot for both sides.

You're the one trying to say a try in the 46th minute had no bearing on the game, diminishing the wrong calls against us!

And all you did was post-one-eyerd videos and dismissed blatant evidence I posted of wrong calls against us!

 

[Larksea]

watch it again and let me know at what point he released the player. go ahead, its in the 22nd minute.
Wait, you say "attempts the turn over legally" then you say it "was penalty but not yellow"
which is it?
he never released the player, thats an automatic obvious penalty. The fact that it happened hard on defense under the posts after a fast breakout preventing a try makes it a yellow card.

I will say that it looked like the Ref was going to rightly give a yellow card for this play but he let the TMO overturn him. Was the TMO who screwed that one up.
I'll happily admit the boks were hard done by at the scrum. But its ridiculous to think the bad calls only went one way.

 

[petite]

@Geralt_ you can track and dislike my 700 post still I'll think the all blacks got away with 2 red cards.
the where bad calls both ways
IMO the ones that went your way where more significant.
I saI'd I can understand an off side being overlooked but don't understand how the tmo didn't call moody shoulder charge! nor he has been cited (w r is ajoke) but the did call Moroni jaj
@Larksea
I mentioned I don't think it's a foul play. and the tmo did rewiew the play and still didn't call yellow. think that like me, thought that he attempted a legal action to finnaly commit the penalty. and that 's why he didn't award a yellow
you call me biased when I'm not even from SA I'm clearly not biased. you are if you don't admit that the shoulder charge was red for anybody else and read was at least yellow ( I'm opinion red) foul play.
the elbows and knock on on the video are less important.
I just want 1 kiwi to admit yes moody should have been red carded. and read. we got away. you cannot.

 

[Zapphod]

you call me biased when I'm not even from SA I'm clearly not biased.

Just for clarity, bias extends both ways you may not be biased toward SA but you are bias against the ABs so where you are from is irrelevant.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Look, nobody is forcing anybody to be on the forum. If he's not happy about the remarks being made, he can do whatever he wants.

But I have to agree with you, the past couple of refereeing matters especially where the All Blacks were involved, his bias certainly came to the fore, without providing conclusive or constructive arguments to sway others to agree with him.

I get the sense that he doesn't want to see the arguments we point out from a referee perspective alone, and tends to always dial towards favouring the AB's even when it's wrong.

But what is still baffling to me is the way in which WR is handling these incidents. I mean Round 1 isn't even done yet, and there has been an incident in nearly every game where bad calls were made, or where players haven't been cited and are getting away with big issues.

WR gives a clear instruction to referees to punish players for illegal contact to an opposing player's head, yet nothing is being done to crack down on the incidents when they took place.

Hodge was cited, and rightly so as it was super dangerous.

I see they conveniently ignored the offside interception from du Toit that lead to their only try.

in fact, nearly everyone has not even mentioned or acknowledged it.

unfortunatelt they have changed the rules recently so that Hollywood's are only penalties. It's blatant poor sportsmanship and used to fall under that category, meaning it could get carded. The Irish don't like the idea of carding for it though because Brian odriscoll Did it.

1 so now we can only have opinions on games our country play?
2 the rules are the rules it should not be about what is being policed
3 moody 's 3 time elbow on the ground has nothing to do with real time or slo MO.
4 moody charging shoulder en etzebet on the floor ir red car imo
5 Read hold on dutoit with no ball is not even in the video is red too.
the saffas are right to complain.
6 putting a shoulder charge witch is dangerous to a players helth in the same level as trying to milk penalties is either wrong or you are talking out of anger

I'll have to back this guy up here because "shoulder to head"? He never said that

man you can't say your opinion in the nz theads they jump to your neck right away.
I have no problem in admitting when the ref is hard on the opponent.
imo (in my ******* opinion) the AB got away with too much **** in this game)
didn't say it's a conspiracy
it's annoying how you can't take criticism at all.
you got away with to reds end of story.

i think no posters are getting frustrated because the vast majority of non nz posters have shown they have only one eye whereas most no posters have shown they have two

@Geralt_ you can track and dislike my 700 post still I'll think the all blacks got away with 2 red cards.
the where bad calls both ways
IMO the ones that went your way where more significant.
I saI'd I can understand an off side being overlooked but don't understand how the tmo didn't call moody shoulder charge! nor he has been cited (w r is ajoke) but the did call Moroni jaj
@Larksea
I mentioned I don't think it's a foul play. and the tmo did rewiew the play and still didn't call yellow. think that like me, thought that he attempted a legal action to finnaly commit the penalty. and that 's why he didn't award a yellow
you call me biased when I'm not even from SA I'm clearly not biased. you are if you don't admit that the shoulder charge was red for anybody else and read was at least yellow ( I'm opinion red) foul play.
the elbows and knock on on the video are less important.
I just want 1 kiwi to admit yes moody should have been red carded. and read. we got away. you cannot.

i agree it shouldn't have been a yellow, or even a penalty. There was a clear release.

 

[Reiser99]

Honestly I just thought Garces was bad all round and no team really benefited. You could spend hours analysing every decision and find something to suit the narrative you want. I honestly don't see the point. It's WR's job to hold refs to account and hopefully they will.